the People who say "God told me, God spoke to me" extra biblical revelation

[LoveofTruth]

Strawman.

You quoted 1 Cor 14:37 and said that was proof that the Corinthians were speaking God's word to support your claim that "we" in 1 Cor 2:13 is all believers.

I did not quote the word of God coming out from them to support 1 Cor 2:13, that is another straw man your building. You must have an entire field of straw men in your backyard...

I sowed that the Corinthians had the word of God come out from them, this would be similar to Paul who spoke the word of God also. They excelled in all utterance and gifts of the Spirit they spoke out from them the word of wisdom, the word of knoweldge, and spoke by the Spirit and prophesied and spoke in tongues and they may have thought that they were unique and had many gifts so they could do what they would and cause confusion in the order of the gatherings. Paul said clearly that they should not do this and God is not the author of confusion but of peace as in all the churches of the saints.

So Paul is saying that they should be in the same order as all the churches, even if they had the word of God come out from them do they think they are the only ones to have this? No, many churches have this as well, so those who are spiritual and prophets should hear what Paul wrote from God to them. Which is only discerned as the Spirit reveals things to them, even what Paul wrote. This is all in the text, I suggest you read it a hundred times in prayer and fasting and seek God's voice.And to be taught by the Spirit, not by those who do not believe in the gifts of the Spirit today or who deny the inward working of God in the spirit of believers to hear His voice.

"For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints... 36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only. [showing that the word of God did not come out from them alone] 37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.?" ( 1 Corinthians 14:33, 36,37 KJV)

Rather than admitting your foolish mistake you built a strawman quoting the passages referring to prophets, which of course is not all Corinthians.

interesting how you only take parts of what I say and twist it to try and build your straw man argument. I said , (as Paul said:

"If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge "

Notice, I and Paul spoke of those that are "spiritual" as well as prophets.We know that Paul was speaking of the natural man and the spiritual man (1 Cor 2_ and he showed that only the spiritual man can discern all things. So again you twist things and wrest the scriptures I give to your own confusion.

And I do not insult you. It os called correction, warning, rebuke, reproof, exhortation etc.

 

[ARBITER01]

Sure - First off, can you clarify if you make a distinction between the indwelling presence and the anointing ?

Yes I do.

The anointing is a distinctly separate and different thing from The Holy Spirit, just like it was in the OT. Jesus verifies this also when He quoted Isaiah,....

Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, Because he anointed me to preach good tidings to the poor: He hath sent me to proclaim release to the captives, And recovering of sight to the blind, To set at liberty them that are bruised,

The only reason The Holy Spirit was upon Jesus was that GOD The Father had anointed His head first, hence why He is call The Anointed One.

 

[swordsman1]

Your wrong as usual,I quoted many verses read them again. They definitely had the word of God come out from them .

You also missed this comment I made that showed what Paul was talking about in context. Your interpretations are horrible you seem li me you want to try hard to avoid the plain scriptures.

I said, after quoting many verses,

“Paul is saying that God is not causing confusion, this order is the sane in all the churches. They may have thought that the word of God came out from them and that they were different than others or as if other churches did not have the sane gifting s etc, or the word of God coming out from other churches also. Paul is saying they should discern in the spirit that what he wrote was God”s commandments for God’s order and this is the sane in all churches.”

No I am not wrong.

If the "we" in 1 Cor 2:13 is all believers you need to prove that ALL the Corinthians and ALL other believers SPEAK the word of God. You haven't done so. You have only shown the verses where PROPHETS in Corinth spoke. Not everyone in Corinth, nor every believer, is a prophet.

As I have explained to you, the "we" in this chapter is Paul and the apostles as clearly shown from beginning of the chapter. And EVERY commentator of this verse agrees with me.

 

[ARBITER01]

No, the word "in" is right. No translation issue, as you showed in the meaning of the word it says "(fixed) position (in place time or state)" .No one should t just change the bible (KJV) when our doctrine doesn't line up with the scriptures. many groups do this and it is not right.

God dwells in every believer and christians have the Spirit in them. God gives them a new heart and Christ dwells in their heart by faith. and

“Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father... 27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.”" 8 1 John 2:24,27 KJV)

but you tried to translate the word yourself and went away from the actual meaning in the context.

No, the endowment of the Spirit is inward in our inner man. They were filled with the Holy Ghost.

“Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.” (1 Peter 1:11 KJV)

“And the spirit entered into me when he spake unto me, and set me upon my feet, that I heard him that spake unto me.”

“Then this Daniel was preferred above the presidents and princes, because an excellent spirit was in him; and the king thought to set him over the whole realm.” (Daniel 6:3 KJV)

“Forasmuch as an excellent spirit, and knowledge, and understanding, interpreting of dreams, and shewing of hard sentences, and dissolving of doubts, were found in the same Daniel, whom the king named Belteshazzar: now let Daniel be called, and he will shew the interpretation.” (Daniel 5:12 KJV)

“Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.”...“Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. “Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me. 12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.””... (Psalms 51:6,10, 11 KJV)

“Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.” (John 15:4 KJV) still in the OT when this was said.

And when we talk of the Spirit of God we must always see the Trinity in the understanding and the work of each. Here is just one of the trinity verses we see speaking of all three as the one LORD God.

"I, even I, have spoken; yea, I have called him: I have brought him, and he shall make his way prosperous. 16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me. 17Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God" ( Isaiah 48:15-17 KJV) Here we see the Lord God speaking of the Lord God and His Spirit sending him, )Old Testament verse of understanding).

“And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease. 2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these;...For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.” (Matthew 10:1,2,20 KJV)

yes it does

because the anointing is IN believers as Jesus was anointed with the Holy Ghost believers also are baptized with the Holy Ghost by Him and this anointing speaks of the spiritual endowment , gift or grace of the Spirit given to all believers in faith who receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

we should all hear God who works in every believer and who makes us perfect unto every good work. And jesus Christ is in every believer with the Father as well.

Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, 21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen" ( Hebrews 13:20,21 KJV)

"But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love." ) Ephesians 4:15,16 KJV)

We have no need that any man ( natural man or the wisdom of man) teach us (1 John 2:27 KJV), the same anointing (unction from the Holy One) teacheth us all things and is truth. If a man speaks as the oracles of God and we hear Gods voice in us He will confirm and witness the word by a manifestation of the truth in us and commend this truth to our conscience as well.

Let me buy you a clue here Vanna,.......

The Holy Spirit and the anointing are two distinctly different things in scripture.

 

[swordsman1]

Your respect of persons and worldly rudiments and putting men in such “peer- reviewed” categories is wrong and as Paul warned against in a few places. You may also be among those that call men who profess to be wise “masters” of divinity or “reverends” or other flattering titles that we should not have.

I didn’t care about the persons position in any man made Bible schools etc. It’s the information he spoke about that was the point. You should consider Paul’s words here ,

Rubbish. Insisting that quotes be from peer-reviewed material is not being a respecter of men. It is ensuring that what they have written is not a load of garbage. Anyone with a free blog can self-publish all sorts of junk on the internet, and you want to quote that as evidence for your errant theology?

Isaiah 61: 1. The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;”

Acts 10: 38. How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.”

And we only need a few verses that’s enough.

Neither of those verses refer to Old Testament anointings with oil.

Your idea that if this wonderful truth that God speaks to believers inwardly and directs them inwardly and teaches them inwardly with his actual voice we’re true it should be found all over the Bible, Is a false idea. Even though it is found all over the Bible in many verses. But we only need a few verses for doctrine. Take the virgin birth. That doctrine is of such vital importance and yet only a few verses speak of this. I am not sure if Paul ever speaks of this in his writings. But it still is there.

If God speaks to believers in such ways it would be a vitally important doctrine. It would be abundantly clear and prominently commanded in many scriptures to listen to your inner impressions/nudges/promptings/stirrings or the like. Yet it is nowhere to be found.

I have refuted your understanding of every single verse you have quoted. As have the commentators of those verses.

The virgin birth is clearly stated in multiple places in scripture, therefore it is accepted as a Christian doctrine.

 

[swordsman1]

I gave you many already, but here are some more thoughts that speak against your view. No doubt you will rush frantically in a fluster and try to read on and seek to find even one word that you can try to use for your argument about this from these men, but you are clearly wrong in almost every thought in this thread. it is a curious confusion I see in your words, mans wisdom in a frantic display.. Even when you try to use 1 Cor 2;13, O already said that Paul spoke of his own experience, but that does not mean no one else can have that. Paul showed many times things that he experienced and the body as well.

Benson Commentary
Isaiah 61:1. The Spirit of the Lord is upon me — To qualify me for effecting what is foretold and promised in the foregoing chapter. As Christ has applied this passage to himself, (see Luke 4:16,) and assured us that it was fulfilled in him, we may, with the utmost reason, conclude that he is here introduced by the prophet in his own person, and not that the prophet speaks of himself, as some have thought...by anointing them with oil, which ceremony was used by the express command of God, and was intended to show, not only that the persons so anointed were called to, but were, or should be, qualified for, these offices, with suitable gifts and graces. But the anointing of Christ, who was to sustain offices incomparably more important, and productive of infinitely greater effects, was of another nature, he being anointed, not with external and corruptible oil, but with the eternal Spirit of the incorruptible God, which qualified him for every part of the great work to which he was called, beyond all others that were before him. Which Spirit he had without measure, John 3:34; and therefore is said (Psalm 45:7; Hebrews 1:9) to be anointed with the oil of gladness above his fellows. To preach good tidings "

Pulpit Commentary
Isaiah 61:1 "...The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; literally, the Spirit of the Lord Jehovah (Adonai Jehovah) is upon me. The Septuagint, the Vulgate, and one manuscript omit adonai. In the original announcement of "the Servant" it was stated that God had "put his Spirit upon him" (Isaiah 42:1). The sanctification of our Lord's human nature by the Holy Spirit is very explicitly taught in the Gospels (Matthew 1:20; Matthew 3:16; Matthew 4:1, etc.; Mark 1:10, 12; Luke 1:35; Luke 2:40; Luke 3:22; Luke 4:1, 14, 18-21, etc.; John 1:32, 33; John 3:34, etc.). The Lord hath anointed me. The "anointing" of Jesus was that sanctification of his human nature by the Holy Spirit, which commenced in the womb of the blessed Virgin (Luke 1:35), which continued as he grew to manhood (Luke 2:40, 52), which was openly manifested at his baptism, and never ceased till he took his body and soul with him into heaven. Of this spiritual anointing, "

Keil and Delitzsch Biblical Commentary on the Old Testament
Isaiah 61:1 "...He is endowed with the Spirit of Jehovah (Isaiah 42:1); Jehovah has sent Him, and with Him His Spirit (Isaiah 48:16)..."

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
Isaiah 61:1 "...because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings to the meek: not the Lord, the Spirit that was upon him, for Christ was anointed with the Holy Ghost; but Jehovah the, Father, he was the anointer of Christ, by whom he was anointed in some sense from everlasting, being invested by him with the office of Mediator, Proverbs 8:21 and in the fulness of time, in the human nature, at his birth and baptism, with the Holy Spirit, his gifts and grace, without measure, Psalm 45:7, hence he has the name of Messiah or Anointed, and from him his people have the anointing which teacheth all things:" (a reference to 1 John 2:27 again, rebuking your strange view)

Did you actually read those commentaries you quoted?

None of them say the chrisma oil in OT anointings was a symbol of the Holy Spirit as you claim. Read them again.

They say the word "anointing" is used figuratively in Isaiah 61 to show Christ was consecrated in for the role of Messiah to which he was called. I do not deny that Christ was "anointed" - consecrated for his ministry - with the Holy Spirit.

So I ask you again....Where is your evidence to support your claim that the oil in OT anointings was representative of the Holy Spirit?

(a reference to 1 John 2:27 again, rebuking your strange view)

We know Gill thinks the anointing is the Spirit in 1 John 2:27. Many other commentators, however, agree with me that it is God's word that abides in us and teaches us. The "strange view" that Gill does rebuke however is your own. He doesn't say the Spirit teaches by inward impressions or stirrings. He says the Spirit teaches through scripture.

 

[swordsman1]

Paul often in his letters, (even in the letters to the Corinthians, often speaks of the we including the saints and we in regards to his experience and ministry as well. Both can be shown in the letters. he shifts back and forth often. He will even say "I" , then "we", then, "we" im a different context.

Not in this chapter he doesn't. Every commentator agrees the "we" in 1 Cor 2:13 is Paul and the apostles.

The words "no man" here refer to all men on earth, all the christians and Paul himself. The things of God knoweth no man but the Spirit of God and to whom he reveals him.

That's right. And to whom were these things revealed?......

v10 these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit.​

They were revealed to Paul and the other apostles (again, all commentators agree). Those things they spoke to the Corinthians in words which the Holy Spirit taught them (v13).

God gives all believers the knoweldge of Him and the things of Him. We see this in 1 Corinthians all over the place.They were enriched by God in all utterance etc, They were given gifts and the manifestation of the Spirit of God to profit all, some were given the word of wisdom, the word of Knowledge, prophecy etc . If any man speak let him speak as of the oracles of God that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ.

Wrong. The revelatory gifts were not given to all believers. And those that did have them were not given revelations by impressions and stirrings.

 

[swordsman1]

some of them questioned Paul all over the place and there were false ministers also among them etc.

And wrongfully so. Paul rebukes them for doing so. Instead he reminded them of his apostleship and their changed lives, just as I said....

1 Corinthians 9:1-2 ​

"Am I not free? Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord? Are you not the result of my work in the Lord? Even though I may not be an apostle to others, surely I am to you! For you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord."​

​

2 Corinthians 12:12 ​

12 The signs of a true apostle were performed among you with utmost patience, with signs and wonders and mighty works.​

​

1 Corinthians 6:9-11​

"Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God."​

Paul was saying that if they thought themselves to be prophets or spiritual, they should have that spiritual discernment of what he wrote that it was from God. This would be by the teaching of the Spirit in them.

No Paul did not say that. You are taking your own words and shoving them into Paul's mouth. This is what Paul actually said....

37 If anyone thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord.​

There is no mention of "spiritual discernment" as you have shamefully added to Paul's words. And certainly no mention of the Spirit teaching them.

As I explained to you, the Corinthians should know that Paul spoke from God, because of the evidence of his apostleship (signs and wonders) and their transformed lives as a result of his preaching.

 

[swordsman1]

No, you misunderstand. Even though Paul spoke to them in the Spirit from the revelation of God, they would only understand them in faith and by the revelation of the Spirit. We already saw that the natural man receiveth not the things of God neither can he know them, for they are spiritual discerned.

Didn't you read my post? I said the things of God that are spoken to the Corinthians can only be discerned by the spiritual (those born of the Spirit). To the unregenerate, the things that the apostles speak are foolishness.

So only those who are spiritual in Christ walking and hearing and learn ing in the spirit can know,judge or discern and understand the things of God.

No it doesn't say only those who are "hearing in the spirit" can discern. You add your own ideas to scripture by the fallacy of eisegesis.

Yes, he also speaks from his experience. But it must be extended to others as well.

No it must not. We must not go beyond what is written (something you do all the time). The things of God were revealed to the apostles only, and they spoke them to believers in words taught them by the Holy Spirit.

Paul is not contradicting what he wrote later about any believers having anything revealed to them by God and speaking it forth in prophecy.

"If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace. 31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted" ( 1 Corinthians 14:30,31 KJV).

This anything being revealed is by the Spirit revealing them. This revelation is the Holy Ghost teaching them.This is in line with what Paul wrote about no man knowing the things of God but the Spirit and to whom the Spirit will reveal them. Yes, Paul had this revelation also.That why he says which things we ALSO speak.

Only prophets (a small subset of the Corinthians) heard God speak to them (in an audible voice, not impressions). And those are not the "also" in 1 Cor 2:13. Prophets are not mentioned at all in 1 Cor 2. I have already corrected you misunderstanding of "also" here.

also remember this verse

"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. 46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father." (John 6:45 KJV)

so all are taught of God by the father in the faith. They have heard the Father also. But some who hardened their hearts have not seen the father or heard him or been taught by him. Those who are of God hear and are taught.

I have already explained this to you....

John is referring to the effectual call when you first become a Christian. When a person hears the gospel, faith results and they are irresistibly drawn to Christ. As the gospel is God's word, it is fair to say that hearing the gospel and learning the way of salvation is being taught by God.

But just because Christians are drawn to Christ at salvation doesn't mean in future God gives them impressions to "Go there" and "Do this" or anything of the sort.

You commit the fallacy of non-sequitur.

 

[swordsman1]

The anointing that John talks about, though, is special. it’s an anointing that is done not through oil but by the Spirit of God, and it is done by God himself:

Wrong. John makes no mention of the Spirit. The Spirit is nowhere to be seen in the context.

And John doesn't talk about anointing or consecrating anyone. He talks about chrisma (healing ointment or oil used in anointings) as a metaphor for God's word and how this helps believers defend against false teachers.

It’s an anointing that “remains in us” and “teaches [us] about all things” (v. 27)

Yes God's word abides in us and teaches us all thing

One verse that helps us understand this connection between the anointing and the Holy Spirit shows up in Acts, where we find out Jesus had a similar anointing:

You are getting confused between chrisma (ointment or oil) and being "anointed" as a consecration for a new ministry role.

but that the Holy Spirit that they’ve been anointed with will give them the ability to discern what is true. And that they, with the help of the Holy Spirit, can know what is real.

By giving them impressions, stirrings, or the like, that are virtually indistinguishable from their own feelings? I think not. What use are they against false teachers? False teaching can only be rebuked by scripture (2 Tim 3:16, Titus 1:9, Mat 4:1-11). The Holy Spirit is never said to have a role in combatting false teachers.

There are soo many writers who agree with this soo many.

While some commentators say the chrisma is the Holy Spirit, none of them say He teaches us by impressions, stirrings, or the like. They say he teaches through scripture, but you dishonestly cut those sentences out of your quotes.

Many, many other commentators agree with that the chrisma is God's word.

The almost cultish view that some have about this is false and we need not that any man (natural man in mans wisdom and fleshly comprehension who say they never heard the Holy Ghost teach them) to teach us.

Yours in the cultish view, not mine. Following impressions and gut-feelings is the same way New Age mystics and pagan oracles claim their deities speak to them by extrasensory perception.

 

[swordsman1]

I did not quote the word of God coming out from them to support 1 Cor 2:13, that is another straw man your building. You must have an entire field of straw men in your backyard...

Yes you did. Don't lie. We can clearly see what you wrote at the end of your post #1471

even if they had the word of God come out from them do they think they are the only ones to have this?

I see what you did there. You craftily added your own word "only" to Paul's words to deceitfully change it's meaning. You ought to be ashamed of yourself.

Paul did not say Was it only from you that God's word came. It says "Or was it from you that the word of God came? "

Paul is sarcastically asking a rhetorical question, the answer to which is - No, the word of God did not come from you.

Seeing as you are now becoming used to consulting commentaries I suggest you go and look up some commentaries of 1 Cor 14:36, and learn.

You make so many mistakes and need much correction.

"If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge "

Notice, I and Paul spoke of those that are "spiritual" as well as prophets.We know that Paul was speaking of the natural man and the spiritual man (1 Cor 2_ and he showed that only the spiritual man can discern all things. So again you twist things and wrest the scriptures I give to your own confusion.

All the Corinthians were to acknowledge that Paul spoke from God. But it doesn't say they were to do that by consulting their inner impressions and stirrings.

And I do not insult you. It os called correction, warning, rebuke, reproof, exhortation etc.

Yes you do. When you know your argument is lost, you always attack me personally with a diatribe of ad-hominem insults and lies.

Ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a logical fallacy in which an argument is rebutted by attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.​

 

[Carl Emerson]

Yes I do.

The anointing is a distinctly separate and different thing from The Holy Spirit, just like it was in the OT. Jesus verifies this also when He quoted Isaiah,....

Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, Because he anointed me to preach good tidings to the poor: He hath sent me to proclaim release to the captives, And recovering of sight to the blind, To set at liberty them that are bruised,

The only reason The Holy Spirit was upon Jesus was that GOD The Father had anointed His head first, hence why He is call The Anointed One.

Yes, we may very will be on the same page on some aspects of this.

The way I see it is that Jesus was indwelled by the Holy Spirit at conception and empowered (anointed) by the Holy Spirit permanently at baptism.

When we consider the OT saints, some were gifted with exceptional human spirits and empowered (anointed) temporarily for specific tasks.

We also always need to be aware that God works with chosen saints so it is not always about them and their spiritual condition.

A key verse to understand this better is JB's instruction to identify the messiah as the one upon whom the spirit would not only rest upon, but remain upon. This was in fact the first baptism in the Holy Spirit - a permanent anointing and empowering.

Apart from this we probably see the association between the gifts and the empowering differently.

I had some fluency in tongues before being baptised in the Spirit, in fact when that happened in a church that didn't even believe in it, I didn't even know what it was - until He told me the next day. I was undone in deep repentance and wept through the service, it seemed my mind was taken apart and put back together again, I had been rescued from drugs and darkness, and mercifully given a second chance in life.

The main gifting I received at BHS was seeing for the first time the division between spirit and soul.

However in all of this I think we can over formulate how we think God must act and insist that is the way it must happen for all, forgetting He is a God of exceptions and deals with individuals individually.

We also underestimate the abilities He gives by indwelling at rebirth. In this case the seven aspects of the Holy Spirit become active inside of us before we are anointed at BHS.

 

[ARBITER01]

Yes, we may very will be on the same page on some aspects of this.

I think so too. We will be able to actually "discuss" things and come to some shared conclusions.

The way I see it is that Jesus was indwelled by the Holy Spirit at conception and empowered (anointed) by the Holy Spirit permanently at baptism.

When we consider the OT saints, some were gifted with exceptional human spirits and empowered (anointed) temporarily for specific tasks.

We also always need to be aware that God works with chosen saints so it is not always about them and their spiritual condition.

A key verse to understand this better is JB's instruction to identify the messiah as the one upon whom the spirit would not only rest upon, but remain upon. This was in fact the first baptism in the Holy Spirit - a permanent anointing and empowering.

I'm at work currently, so I don't have access to my bible program to copy paste some scripture for you, but there are differences between John's gospel and Luke's on this. Luke has Jesus being empowered after his temptations and trials whereas John has Him empowered after His water immersion.

Which is true?

Going off OT scripture and some personal experience, I lean towards Luke's account since King David's empowerment happened after he was anointed with the olive oil. That's when The Holy Spirit came to rest upon him from that day forward.

Apart from this we probably see the association between the gifts and the empowering differently.

I had some fluency in tongues before being baptised in the Spirit, in fact when that happened in a church that didn't even believe in it, I didn't even know what it was - until He told me the next day. I was undone in deep repentance and wept through the service, it seemed my mind was taken apart and put back together again, I had been rescued from drugs and darkness, and mercifully given a second chance in life.

The main gifting I received at BHS was seeing for the first time the division between spirit and soul.

I had a moment right after I was born again where I started prophesying for a bit. I didn't know what it was, I thought I was preaching or something, but that event was a testimony of my reborn spirit being the new human spirit like Jesus, and the testimony of Jesus being the spirit of prophecy according to Revelation.

It was a further witness to me that I belonged to Jesus now.

However in all of this I think we can over formulate how we think God must act and insist that is the way it must happen for all, forgetting He is a God of exceptions and deals with individuals individually.

We also underestimate the abilities He gives by indwelling at rebirth. In this case the seven aspects of the Holy Spirit become active inside of us before we are anointed at BHS.

Well we could probably find some disagreement in a few areas on this.

I'm leaning towards the 120 in the upper room being renewed/born again at this point, and that the outpouring of The Holy Spirit filled them. This is only because The Holy Spirit birthed that teaching inside me recently.

Cornelius's household was the really interesting one. They knew nothing about Jesus nor were they born again, but GOD birthed them anew with Peter's preaching and immediately filled them also without water immersion.

But as far as any abilities in our newborn spirit, I think that it is very limited. The fruits and the gifts don't come without the filling, in my opinion.

 

[LoveofTruth]

And this is what the Expositor's Greek Testament says about v13 (your proof verse)

this is not my proof verse. I already have shown that Paul spoke about the things he also experienced in his revelation. But this in no way excludes the entire body to whom he wrote. No man know the things of God but by revelation of the Spirit.

In fact no man can even know the Father except the Son reveal him and Peter only knew who Jesus was by revelation of the Father. So, every believer has to have the revelation of God in order to know anything of God.

It is absurd to teach as you do a , almost cultish view. that Paul and a few other apostles of the early church had the Teaching and revelation of the Spirit. Scripture clearly corrects you on that. Just read Romans 12, 1 Cor 1 1 Cor 12, 14 etc.

There would be no way for the Corinthians to discern what Paul taught by the revelation of the Spirit he had unless they were spiritual and had spiritual discernment and teaching by God and unless God revealed them to them. Pauls own words would be meaningless to them unless they heard from God in them.

Paul affirms that his words in matters of revelation, as well as thoughts, were taught him by the Spirit; he claims, in some sense, verbal inspiration.

Paul also spoke the things of God that were revealed to him, as we know the Corinthians also were enriched in all utterance by God and had revelation also and prophecy and doctrine given and all things done unto edifying. Paul had special gifts as well, for not all believers write the scripture. Neither did all apostles as we do not have their writings in scripture. only a few that God chose. But all can speak Gods word and truth and prophesy and have revelations for anything and doctrines given and tongues and interpretations and a word of wisdom and a word of Knowledge etc. If any man speak let him speak as of the oracles of God,

This edifying is interesting how they we to do all things unto edifying. We must examine how the entire body ( not just Paul and a few apostles) were to edify one another,

EDIFYING IN CHRIST and GOD WORKING IN ALL THROUGH CHRIST TO WILL AND TO DO (as proven in scripture, which shows that God teaches and speaks and works in all to all things and all understanding, All things would mean all understanding and teaching and gifts and edifying in all ways.)

"But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: 25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you [this is where God worls, in us to will and to do] of a truth. 26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying." ( 1 Corinthians 14:25,26 KJV)

This edifying is by God working in us through Christ as scripture shows,

"But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16 From whom the whole body [not just apostles] fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love" ( Ephesians 4:10,11 KJV).

This edifying again is through Christ working in the body in every part, not just apostles. He works all things and without him we can do nothing.

“I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.” ( John 15:5 KJV)

so Jesus Christ in in believers and working and speaking and we can do nothing without him. That would include all things.

"For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." (Philippians 2;13 KJV). This is for all believers, not just apostles. This is also said again.

"Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, 21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen." ( Hebrews 13:20,21 KJV)

and Jesus Christ is in every believer

“Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?” (2 Corinthians 13:5 KJV)

"...which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: " ( Colossians 1:27 KJV)

 

[LoveofTruth]

Yes you did. Don't lie. We can clearly see what you wrote at the end of your post #1471

I don't lie, i said this to you "I did not quote the word of God coming out from them to support 1 Cor 2:13,". I wasn't using this to say that Paul was speaking of them specifically. But when Paul shows that his own revelation of the things of God involves the teaching of the Spirit. We can see others having revelation n the same letter and this revelation is the things God taught them in their spirit and when spoken forth they are in prophecy which is for all to LEARN by. Learning relates to learning a teaching from God through the ones prophesying.

I was showing that by similarity even if paul said he had personal experience and others of the teaching of the Holy Ghost. He does not exclude any of the Corinthians. He is simply telling his experience.

Its like a believer says that he spoke a word of wisdom as God gifted him. The man saying that does not mean for a second that nobody else could have that word of wisdom, If we try to take his words and say "oh, he was only speaking of himself and no other believer can have a word of wisdom from God working and gifting him" then that would be absurd and wrong.

I said this,

"What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?

Here we see that the Corinthians had the word come out from them. This shows they had God working in them and the teaching and revelation of the Spirit in them.

I can ask you if God gives gifts unto men, and some of those gifts involves teaching as a teacher or pastor, or apostle, prophet and even an evangelist. How do they know the teaching and things of God? If we see that men like Paul said that he and whoever else he spoke of in 1 Cor 2:13, had the Holy Ghost teach and we know that the Holy Ghost will guide in to all truth and the anointing teaches all things. Then can not all believers say as well that the teaching gift from God is only able to function as Christ works in him effectually and as the Father and the Holy Ghost teach him and this is by revelation?

37If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord." (1 Corinthians 14:36,37)

How would they be able to acknowledge that what Paul was was true and from God? Well, because they are spiritual and prophets and have God working in them revealing and teaching them.."

I see what you did there. You craftily added your own word "only" to Paul's words to deceitfully change it's meaning. You ought to be ashamed of yourself.

No the text says

“What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?”

You should be ashamed of yourself.

A verse keeps coming to my mind as you try to dig a pity for me and attack myself and those who hear God's voice and hear His teaching to the proportion of their faith,

“Whoso diggeth a pit shall fall therein: and he that rolleth a stone, it will return upon him.” (Proverbs 26:27 KJV)

"He that diggeth a pit shall fall into it;" (Ecclesiastes 10:8 KJV)

Paul did not say Was it only from you that God's word came. It says "Or was it from you that the word of God came? "

no Paul said,

“What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?”.

The context is clearly that the Corinthians were in a confusion and allowing certain thins that were disorderly and not Gods order. They had thought they were able to do this perhaps because the word of God came from them and acted like it came from them only. But the context Paul shows is that this order of God Paul was commanding for the church was for all the churches . Not just them.They did not originate the word of God coming out of the body and ministering this order was for all the saints.

We see that the word of God came out of other believers also, not just the apostles. We read of Prophets all over the place in the New testament. They speak forth the word of God and we read of overseers also speaking the word of God ( not just reading scripture)

“Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.” (Hebrews 13:8 KJV)

"Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul. 2 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them." ( Acts 13:1,2 KJV)

"For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: 5For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer." (1 Timothy 4:5 KJV)

“That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge;” (1 Corinthians 1:5 KJV)

"But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit." ( 1 Corinthians 12;7,8 KJV)

and if this is not speaking by the Spirit then what is and this is not just the apostles.

“Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.” (1 Corinthians 12:3 KJV)

Paul is sarcastically asking a rhetorical question, the answer to which is - No, the word of God did not come from you.

Paul has a tine of correction in what he says and this is the way Paul outs the clarity of things before them, as he is led by God to do so. He says other things like this in his letters. They did have Gods word come out from them, all over this letter. Paul confirms it as i showed above in a few places. They thought that they were the first perhaps or the only ones who had the word of God come out from them. They had many gifts of the Spirit among them and they became out of order in their ministration of them. God set an order for them from paul in the letter.

Seeing as you are now becoming used to consulting commentaries

No, I use these for showing that man of the things I share are seen by others. I do not put men above that which is written. You seem to trust in men and the natural understanding of yours to try and figure everything out. But thats why almost every word you speak needs correction. The things of God are only spiritually discerned. The only weakness in me sharing them with you is my understanding by the Spirit and the proportion of faith I have.But the strength of what i say is the revelation of God and scripture as i have been sharing some with you. The mystery is hidden from natural man as scripture also shows.

I suggest you go and look up some commentaries of 1 Cor 14:36, and learn.

I did and they seem to agree with what I said,

Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
(36) What?—The church at Corinth had on some of these points acted at variance with the practice of the other churches, and in a manner which assumed an independence of St. Paul’s apostolic authority. He therefore asks them, with something of sarcastic indignation, whether they are the source from whence the word of God has come, or whether they think themselves its sole recipients, that they should set themselves above the other churches, and above him?"

Here the commentator does not say that they did not have the word of God come out from them. You in a almost cultish way say that and that only Paul had the teaching of the Holy Ghost and a few other apostles.

and

Benson Commentary
1 Corinthians 14:36-38. What! came the word of God out from you? — Are ye of Corinth, the first church in the world, by whose example all others should be modelled? Or came it unto you only? — Are you the only Christian society that has received the true gospel? If not, conform herein to the custom of all the churches. These questions the apostle asks, to cut off every pretence for women’s teaching in the church. If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual — Endowed with any extraordinary gift of the Spirit; let him acknowledge, &c. — Let him prove that he is indeed under the influence of the Divine Spirit, by his submission and obedience to these determinations, and confess that the things that I now write unto you are the commandments of the Lord
"

Barnes' Notes on the Bible
What! came the word of God out from you? - The meaning of this is, "Is the church at Corinth the "mother church?" Was it first established; or has it been alone in sending forth the Word of God? You have adopted customs which are unusual. You have permitted women to speak in a manner unknown to other churches; see 1 Corinthians 11:16. You have admitted irregularity and confusion unknown in all the others. You have allowed many to speak at the same time, and have tolerated confusion and disorder. Have you any "right" thus to differ from others? Have you any authority, as it were, to dictate to them, to teach them, contrary to their uniform custom, to allow these disorders? Should you not rather be conformed to them, and observe the rules of the churches which are older than yours?" The "argument" here is, that the church at Corinth was "not" the first that was established; that it was one of the "last" that had been founded; and that it could, therefore, claim no right to differ from others, or to prescribe to them. The same argument is employed in 1 Corinthians 11:16; see Note."

Geneva Study Bible
{16} What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
(16) A general conclusion of the treatise of the right use of spiritual gifts in assemblies. And this is with a sharp reprehension, lest the Corinthians might seem to themselves to be the only ones who are wise."

None of these go against what I have been saying so far.And none say that the Corinthians did not have the word of God come out from them.

You make so many mistakes and need much correction.

not one so far.But you on the other hand error in almost every post. This is understandable seeing as you admit to not having the Holy Ghost teach you and you do not hear Gods voice inwardly . The anointing teaches all things and abides in believers and they have no need any man (natural man in mans wisdom) teach them.

All the Corinthians were to acknowledge that Paul spoke from God. But it doesn't say they were to do that by consulting their inner impressions and stirrings.

I do not use the words "inner impressions or stirrings" in this area. This is your straw man fallacy talk you do this all over this thread many many times.

I talk of them hearing Gods voice and walking in the Spirit and being taught by the Spirit. This teaching comes through revelation of all things ( which would include the scriptures and when others preached or taught) they need spiritual discernment and he that is spiritual judgeth ( discerns) all things.

Yes you do. When you know your argument is lost, you always attack me personally with a diatribe of ad-hominem insults and lies.

No I do not see any argument lost. All I have said is grounded in scripture and truth. I do not attack you. You need to be rebuked sharply at times and corrected and warned etc but i do not attack you or lie. When I show your attacking words and rebuke them. i am merely responding to what you say. I am not trying to change the discussion or go off tract here. It is all connected.

Ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a logical fallacy in which an argument is rebutted by attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.​

Rebuking your false teachings here is connected directly to you and your natural mans wisdom, (which you admit by your own words you do not have the Holy Ghost teaching you). We would all like to know how you know anything of God if Paul said no man can know the things of God but the Spirit and to whom he reveals them? Is it by your natural learning in schools and books read, or mans wisdom and excellency of speech? Is it in study of other mens words and commentaries and languages? Or is it a bare reading of scripture into your mind and act like that is enough to teach you? The pharisees had this much. They read and studied scripture. But they dd not know the scripture nor the power of God and Jesus rebuked them clearly (and in context of hearing the father and His teaching inwardly) .

"And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. 38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not. 39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. " ( John 5:39 KJV)

 

[LoveofTruth]

I think so too. We will be able to actually "discuss" things and come to some shared conclusions.



I'm at work currently, so I don't have access to my bible program to copy paste some scripture for you, but there are differences between John's gospel and Luke's on this. Luke has Jesus being empowered after his temptations and trials whereas John has Him empowered after His water immersion.

Which is true?

Going off OT scripture and some personal experience, I lean towards Luke's account since King David's empowerment happened after he was anointed with the olive oil. That's when The Holy Spirit came to rest upon him from that day forward.



I had a moment right after I was born again where I started prophesying for a bit. I didn't know what it was, I thought I was preaching or something, but that event was a testimony of my reborn spirit being the new human spirit like Jesus, and the testimony of Jesus being the spirit of prophecy according to Revelation.

It was a further witness to me that I belonged to Jesus now.



Well we could probably find some disagreement in a few areas on this.

I'm leaning towards the 120 in the upper room being renewed/born again at this point, and that the outpouring of The Holy Spirit filled them. This is only because The Holy Spirit birthed that teaching inside me recently.

Cornelius's household was the really interesting one. They knew nothing about Jesus nor were they born again, but GOD birthed them anew with Peter's preaching and immediately filled them also without water immersion.

But as far as any abilities in our newborn spirit, I think that it is very limited. The fruits and the gifts don't come without the filling, in my opinion.

Hello and God bless,

a quick question. Do you believe in the Trinity> or how do you see jesus and the Father and the Holy Ghost?

Just wondering.

and OT saints were called "saints" because they were born again. We can se this new birth in many verses in the OT and before the cross ( though not without it in time)

 

[LoveofTruth]

Wrong. The revelatory gifts were not given to all believers. And those that did have them were not given revelations by impressions and stirrings.

All believers could seek the gifts and revelation and all were to wait for them in anyone sitting by. I also dd not say they were only impressions or stirrings. The Father teaches them inwardly

“Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.”" ( 1 Corinthians 14:1 KJV) spoken to all the church.

If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace. 31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted." ( 1 Corinthians 14:30 KJV)

And truly every believer has to have the revelation from the Spirit to know anything of the things of God. They also have an unction from the Holy One and know al things and the anointing teaches them all things.

"For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God." ( 1 Corinthians 2:10,11 KJV)

And truly all believers who are in Christ have had the revelation from God and none know the Father but by revelation or the Son but by revelation. I stand in doubt of what you say in all things if you haven't had this.

"All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. " ( Matthew 11:27 KJV)

“All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.”" ( Luke 10:22 KJV)

“It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.” (John 6:45 KJV)

 

[ARBITER01]

Hello and God bless,

a quick question. Do you believe in the Trinity> or how do you see jesus and the Father and the Holy Ghost?

Just wondering.

and OT saints were called "saints" because they were born again. We can se this new birth in many verses in the OT and before the cross ( though not without it in time)

Absolutely!

I'm a triune believing Assemblies of GOD Pentecostal. I was born by the blood of Jesus, water immersed in the name of Jesus, and filled with The Holy Spirit by The Lord Himself. I believe in The Father Almighty Yehova, The Son Jesus, and The Holy Spirit Who is currently operating through the body of Christ until The Lord Jesus pulls His body out.

Any other questions?

 

[LoveofTruth]

Absolutely!

I'm a triune believing Assemblies of GOD Pentecostal. I was born by the blood of Jesus, water immersed in the name of Jesus, and filled with The Holy Spirit by The Lord Himself. I believe in The Father Almighty Yehova, The Son Jesus, and The Holy Spirit Who is currently operating through the body of Christ until The Lord Jesus pulls His body out.

Any other questions?

Amen.

No, no more questions.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Any other questions?

do you know what religious group swordsman1 is part of or his doctrinal views on other things? what are His views on the gifts of the Spirit? They are relevant to this thread.