the pastor wrote me a letter, but i don't understand it; what does it mean?

[vnct0000]

the pastor wrote me a letter, but i don't understand it; what does it mean?

"I refer you to the emotional and rhetorical swing of your last two emails. They encapsulate the bind into which you repeatedly place yourself. In one moment, you inspire a collegial debate and seek affiliation. In the next, you are unnecessarily and inaccurately argumentative and divisive. It is this pattern that has resulted in your losing access to deeper community or involvement for you at -------- Community Church.

This reality has caused me great sadness because I believe you to be a good and kind man at your core. However, your seemingly ineradicable pattern of self-sabotage has proven to be too difficult to accommodate. You are stuck in a distorted version of what happened to you here twenty years ago and now your style of near constant aggressive argument is the sole reason that all of the doors for you here at -------- have drawn closed.

As a reminder to our previous discussions, you are still welcome to attend weekend services.

We wish you well in your next endeavor."

 

[ewq1938]

He is basically saying he doesn't know how to help you and seems to be giving up.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

To be fair to the pastor, we'd have to see your 2 emails as well.

 

[Goatee]

Jesus arms are always open to those in need. Even on the battle up calvery He had his heart open to those that flogged and spat on him! A pastor / priest etc should never turn his back on any of the flock. Whatever has happened. We are all in need of God's mercy and love.

 

[vnct0000]

He is basically saying he doesn't know how to help you and seems to be giving up.

To be fair to the pastor, we'd have to see your 2 emails as well.

> here are the previous emails:

"Pastor -------- -

At one time, I had expressed an explicit commitment to Christianity, but this decision had been nullified by the Christians on several occasions. The Church did not ultimately value my commitment to Christ as significant or valid. The Church took an Armenian view and rejected my original written testimony as invalid/expired. This occurred when the Elders terminated my membership 20 years ago. The Elders asked me to verify my commitment to Christianity, and I referred them to the written testimony that I had given -------- in the membership covenant agreement. However, they chose to ignore it, and did not consider my written commitment to Christianity as valid. A commitment to Christianity ultimately has no significant or eternal value.

Since previous commitments/repentances have been deemed invalid, then future ones shall have no greater significance. For this reason, I refrain from making an explicit commitment to Christianity, since it will only be nullified again by the Christians upon any perception of future offense. The Church has traditionally been of an Armenian perspective. The Grace Gospel ultimately has an expiration date, and the significance of Christian commitment becomes nullified for minor to intermediate offenses. No further commitments or repentances will be offered to the Christians, for they have no lasting merit with the Church."

--------------------------------

"I have an explicit commitment to Jesus Christ.

My first and foremost choice for religions participation since 22 years ago has and always will be --------. Much like a marriage. This choice was made 22 years ago and will not change. I will not abandon my first choice and jump from church to church like some abandon a marriage and jump from partner to partner.

I further believe that there is only One Church on the earth. Thus the decisions and expressions of -------- authority are representative of all Christianity. I do not believe in the existence of different Christian denominations. They are all one.

I have never been in conflict with -------- or Christianity, but only with select officers who have deviated from the established doctrines. My stance was similar in the corporate workplace. My allegiance is to the collective, to the corporation. I have no care or respect for individual officers, as their authority is inferior to the collective. Those who require individual subservience will find themselves disappointed in my presence. I serve the corporation, the collective. Subservience to the individual serves only to inflate the ego-identity, leading the individual into temptation.

Nonetheless, I embrace all religions, both modern and ancient, supporting their co-existence. These are all incomplete human expressions of ONE GOD. This includes Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism and others. Judaism itself was inspired directly by the angels and founded upon the Law of Moses. It would be inappropriate to reject it, much like rejecting the Old Testament Bible.

Do you understand?"

 

[Goatee]

Maybe, God is telling you that you are in the wrong 'church / 'denomination'. Have you prayed about this?

 

[vnct0000]

Jesus arms are always open to those in need. Even on the battle up calvery He had his heart open to those that flogged and spat on him! A pastor / priest etc should never turn his back on any of the flock. Whatever has happened. We are all in need of God's mercy and love.

Maybe, God is telling you that you are in the wrong 'church / 'denomination'. Have you prayed about this?

i believe that GOD is telling me that i'm in the wrong religion.

 

[Goatee]

i believe that GOD is telling me that i'm in the wrong religion.

Wrong church maybe.

You need to pray about it. Seek some guidance.

Easy for me to say go search out your local Catholic church but its only you that can decide these things. One needs a good, understanding, God loving person / priest / pastor to help guide you.

God loves you. He is talking to you!

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

Your emails are quite respectful and objective in my opinion. Therefore I would have to say I am perplexed at your pastor's reaction which seems to be quite negative.

 

[vnct0000]

Your emails are quite respectful and objective in my opinion. Therefore I would have to say I am perplexed at your pastor's reaction which seems to be quite negative.

i feel that he may believe that i'm attacking his church, so he takes it personally.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

i feel that he may believe that i'm attacking his church, so he takes it personally.

So I can understand your pain. Time to move on perhaps? I wouldn't stay.

 

[vnct0000]

You need to pray about it. Seek some guidance.

Easy for me to say go search out your local Catholic church but its only you that can decide these things. One needs a good, understanding, God loving person / priest / pastor to help guide you.

God loves you. He is talking to you!

thank you. i have found a muslim sufi in the meantime. he has taught me breathing exercises which i am newly practicing.

 

[vnct0000]

So I can understand your pain. Time to move on perhaps? I wouldn't stay.

i've moved on to non-Christian groups.

 

[Goatee]

i've moved on to non-Christian groups.

Bad move!! Thats just not good.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

i have found a muslim sufi in the meantime. he has taught me breathing exercises which i am newly practicing.

Personally I don't think it is the wrong choice for the experience and knowledge you can get short-term. Long term, I'd be avoiding their dogma.. But a lot of Christians will say it is the wrong choice.

 

[Paidiske]

Hhmm. I think he's saying that you seem to want two incompatible things; to belong, but also to have your own point of view in a previous disagreement vindicated.

FWIW, I think it's a very unpastoral letter.

I think you could find a church that would include you better than this, but of course your search is yours.

 

[Ken Rank]

As a pastor/elder of a congregation and having gone through this myself 21 years ago, I recognize exactly what is happening. You represent something outside of their norm, something different... and when we are locked into a set of beliefs (one of the reasons why we don't use bylaws at our congregation), anything outside of those set beliefs stands as a disruptive threat to the body. I am not saying you are a threat, I am saying that is how they perceive you.

The answer is fairly simple but not one most would want to hear. You either conform to their wishes or leave. You can't stay (and I realize you have left, I read every post in this thread) because you will remain without joy and they will continue to view you as a cancer and give you less and less access to the body so as not to spread. So conform (which I do not recommend) or move on.

To another religion? I will not tell you what to do, but I will say this much.... I won't argue that you might find a piece of truth or two within any religion. It seems most pagan/false religions began with a man who walked in truth and then strayed. But to cash-out on Christ because of how some Christians act is like throwing the baby out with the bath water. Consider this... to walk away from Christ based on how certain Christians have acted suggests you placed too much weight on man and not enough on him. You'll find no perfect pastor, no perfect group of elders, no perfect body of believers... but if you can find a place that is centered on love and mercy and that seeks God's righteousness... then go there, sit down, exhale... and heal for 6 months before reassessing. Having gone through something VERY similar 21 years ago, I know by experience that is exactly what needs to happen. I wish I had done that... I didn't... I followed another path (not completely unlike what you are suggesting) and it took me 3 years to get my head back together. I would love to say, "trust me" on this... but you don't know me and you don't need to place any weight on a man who says, "trust me" anyway. But consider it... pray about it. Faith comes by HEARING so ask and then wait for an answer.

Peace.
Ken

 

[vnct0000]

As a pastor/elder of a congregation and having gone through this myself 21 years ago, I recognize exactly what is happening. You represent something outside of their norm, something different... and when we are locked into a set of beliefs (one of the reasons why we don't use bylaws at our congregation), anything outside of those set beliefs stands as a disruptive threat to the body. I am not saying you are a threat, I am saying that is how they perceive you.

i feel like i'm treated like a criminal, despite having no legal violation.

The answer is fairly simple but not one most would want to hear. You either conform to their wishes or leave. You can't stay (and I realize you have left, I read every post in this thread) because you will remain without joy and they will continue to view you as a cancer and give you less and less access to the body so as not to spread. So conform (which I do not recommend) or move on.

i chose to stay, but they kicked me out.

To another religion? I will not tell you what to do, but I will say this much.... I won't argue that you might find a piece of truth or two within any religion. It seems most pagan/false religions began with a man who walked in truth and then strayed. But to cash-out on Christ because of how some Christians act is like throwing the baby out with the bath water. Consider this... to walk away from Christ based on how certain Christians have acted suggests you placed too much weight on man and not enough on him.

i've been turned down for membership at a half-dozen different churches.

You'll find no perfect pastor, no perfect group of elders, no perfect body of believers... but if you can find a place that is centered on love and mercy and that seeks God's righteousness... then go there, sit down, exhale... and heal for 6 months before reassessing. Having gone through something VERY similar 21 years ago, I know by experience that is exactly what needs to happen. I wish I had done that... I didn't... I followed another path (not completely unlike what you are suggesting) and it took me 3 years to get my head back together. I would love to say, "trust me" on this... but you don't know me and you don't need to place any weight on a man who says, "trust me" anyway. But consider it... pray about it. Faith comes by HEARING so ask and then wait for an answer.

i've tried this, but they don't want to spend the time with me.

 

[vnct0000]

Hhmm. I think he's saying that you seem to want two incompatible things; to belong, but also to have your own point of view in a previous disagreement vindicated.

they call it a hang-up.

FWIW, I think it's a very unpastoral letter.

I think you could find a church that would include you better than this, but of course your search is yours.

i'm not within the Church's target demographic.

Personally I don't think it is the wrong choice for the experience and knowledge you can get short-term. Long term, I'd be avoiding their dogma.. But a lot of Christians will say it is the wrong choice.

it is likely temporary.

 

[Goatee]

As a pastor/elder of a congregation and having gone through this myself 21 years ago, I recognize exactly what is happening. You represent something outside of their norm, something different... and when we are locked into a set of beliefs (one of the reasons why we don't use bylaws at our congregation), anything outside of those set beliefs stands as a disruptive threat to the body. I am not saying you are a threat, I am saying that is how they perceive you.

The answer is fairly simple but not one most would want to hear. You either conform to their wishes or leave. You can't stay (and I realize you have left, I read every post in this thread) because you will remain without joy and they will continue to view you as a cancer and give you less and less access to the body so as not to spread. So conform (which I do not recommend) or move on.

To another religion? I will not tell you what to do, but I will say this much.... I won't argue that you might find a piece of truth or two within any religion. It seems most pagan/false religions began with a man who walked in truth and then strayed. But to cash-out on Christ because of how some Christians act is like throwing the baby out with the bath water. Consider this... to walk away from Christ based on how certain Christians have acted suggests you placed too much weight on man and not enough on him. You'll find no perfect pastor, no perfect group of elders, no perfect body of believers... but if you can find a place that is centered on love and mercy and that seeks God's righteousness... then go there, sit down, exhale... and heal for 6 months before reassessing. Having gone through something VERY similar 21 years ago, I know by experience that is exactly what needs to happen. I wish I had done that... I didn't... I followed another path (not completely unlike what you are suggesting) and it took me 3 years to get my head back together. I would love to say, "trust me" on this... but you don't know me and you don't need to place any weight on a man who says, "trust me" anyway. But consider it... pray about it. Faith comes by HEARING so ask and then wait for an answer.

Peace.
Ken

Superb post