The Paradox of Calvinism and Arminianism (An Opinion)

[kw5kw]

What you say about Paul is true however it is not relevant to the passage as Paul is not describing himself in the past; rather he is describing others who are currently crucifying and shaming Christ. The plain meaning of the passage is that since they are still engaging in this type of sinful behavior, no forgiveness is possible since it is quite obvious that no forgiveness is being sought.

In Acts VII:58 we were introduced to Saul:


Acts VII:58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.KJV



The him that is referenced is Stephen. Over the next two verses Stephen was stoned to death by the mob of Jews who were persecuting the followers of Christ. Stephen was a devout follower of Christ and therefore the mob stoned him.



Continuing on in Acts chapter VIII:



Acts VIII:1 And Saul was consenting g4909 unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles. KJV


Lets look at G4909:

G4909

συνευδοκέω

suneudokeō

soon-yoo-dok-eh'-o

From G4862 and G2106; to think well of in common, that is, assent to, feel gratified with: - allow, assent, be pleased, have pleasure.



So Saul was pleased, or had pleasure, in the death of Stephen.


Continuing on:


Acts VIII:2 And devout men carried Stephen to his burial, and made great lamentation over him.

Acts VIII:3 As for Saul, he made havock G3075 of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed them to prison.


Lets look at G3075:

G3075

λυμαίνομαι

lumainomai

loo-mah'ee-nom-ahee

Middle voice from a probable derivative of G3089 (meaning filth); properly to soil, that is, (figuratively) insult (maltreat): - make havock of.





And in the English of the Word:



HAV'OCK, v.t. To waste; to destroy; to lay waste.





So, as you see, Saul as he was called then, was one of the leaders of destroying the followers of Christ.





Then in Acts Chapter IX:



Acts IX:1 And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,

Acts IX:2 And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.



Here we have Saul seeking out permission from the leaders of the Jews to hunt down the followers of Christ.





Acts IX:3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:



Saul did nothing on his own to seek out Christ.



Acts IX:4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?



Christ did, however, seek out Saul.



Acts IX:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

Acts IX:6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

Acts IX:7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.

Acts IX:8 And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.

Acts IX:9 And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink.

Acts IX:10 And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord.

Acts IX:11 And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,

Acts IX:12 And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight.

Acts IX:13 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:

Acts IX:14 And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.

Acts IX:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:



Jesus chose Saul (Paul), Saul (Paul) did not choose Jesus!



Acts IX:16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake. KJV

 

[Butch5]

I left the PuritanBoard because I couldn't reconcile my views with theirs. (Changed my e-mail and signed out forever.)

I guess I'll call this 'Paradoxical Calvinism.' I'm going to post my five points.

1. We are totally depraved, indeed. Are we absolutely unable to choose Christ? In a way, yes. I believe that we can only choose Christ if we know the true Christ, not the Christ that all the false gospels promote. We cannot accept Christ if we don't know Him from the Scriptures.
2. God, indeed, unconditionally elects His own. Does that mean that He set in forth hard determinism with regards who becomes saved? Absolutely not. All who come to Christ genuinely are among God's elect.
3. Christ's atonement is limited and unlimited at the same time. Did Christ die for the elect only? In a particular way, yes, but entirely, no. Did Christ die for the whole world? Absolutely.
4. God regenerates all of His elect with due time. Could there be different ways He regenerates his elect? Absolutely. Repentance is a universal aspect of all the various methods God uses to regenerate His own, for sure.
5. God's elect shall not pass away. They might backslide somewhat, but God will sling them back into the race.

This is a slightly more liberal take on Calvinism. On the Calvinistic spectrum, I am an Amyraldist. I hold to hypothetical universalism myself. (Not everyone is going to heaven, silly.)

Yet, Arminianism has influenced my beliefs for the better. Here's some questions/statements.

1. What if God foreordained our free will choices to come to Him, therefore unconditionally electing us yet allowing us to choose Him at the same time?
2. Why wasn't Arminianism considered a heresy, like all of the other non-Calvinistic belief systems?
3. Why are there so many genuine Arminian Christians if Calvinism (the legalistic kind) is true? There has to be some truth buried within Arminius' theology.
4. This is just a personal question. Why are Calvinists so legalistic? Isn't legalism what the Bible taught against? Legalism would be faith by works. We are saved by grace through faith alone. None of our worldly wise deeds count as anything to God.
5. Arminians do overemphasize on man. Yet Calvinists overemphasize on God's sovereignty. We need to emphasize on the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
6. Calvinism is true in the aspect that God foreordains all. God regenerates us and we choose. Yet did we choose? Yes. It is perfectly God's act towards us, but we act towards Him too.
7. God is more sovereign than the Arminians and the Calvinists assume Him to be. God is more sovereign since He foreordains every free will choice that man enacts.

As always, this is just my opinion on the matter. God bless.

It's my belief that both Calvinism and Arminianism are basically incorrect. They both focus mainly on man's salvation and miss the main point and hope in the Bible. I've been in both camps and have found many errors in each. I finally rejected both and set out to reconcile all of the Scriptures.

 

[kw5kw]

It's my belief that both Calvinism and Arminianism are basically incorrect. They both focus mainly on man's salvation and miss the main point and hope in the Bible. I've been in both camps and have found many errors in each. I finally rejected both and set out to reconcile all of the Scriptures.

If salvation of one's soul isn't the main point of the scriptures, what is?

 

[Butch5]

If salvation of one's soul isn't the main point of the scriptures, what is?

Jesus brought the Gospel to man. What did He preach? He preached, The Kingdom of God. That is the message of the Bible. Salvation of man is a part of that, but, it's a part. Theologians and Pastors have made it the central point and in doing so have lost focus. They've gotten tunnel vision. They can't see the forest for the trees. They've focus so intently on this one issue that they lost the bigger picture. Jesus said,

43 And he said unto them, I must preach the kingdom of God to other cities also: for therefore am I sent.
44 And he preached in the synagogues of Galilee. (Lk. 4:43-44 KJV)

Notice what His Gospel is,

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. (Matt. 24:14 KJV)

Notice it's to be preached in all the word to the nations. How often do we hear that today. It's always about personal salvation today. Yet Jesus said He was sent to preach the Gospel of the Kingdom of God. Some Christians will say, 'yeah, but Paul said'. What did Paul preach?

16 For Paul had determined to sail by Ephesus, because he would not spend the time in Asia: for he hasted, if it were possible for him, to be at Jerusalem the day of Pentecost.
17 And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus, and called the elders of the church.
18 And when they were come to him, he said unto them, Ye know, from the first day that I came into Asia, after what manner I have been with you at all seasons,
19 Serving the Lord with all humility of mind, and with many tears, and temptations, which befell me by the lying in wait of the Jews:
20 And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have shewed you, and have taught you publickly, and from house to house,
21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.
22 And now, behold, I go bound in the spirit unto Jerusalem, not knowing the things that shall befall me there:
23 Save that the Holy Ghost witnesseth in every city, saying that bonds and afflictions abide me.1
24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.
25 And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more. (Acts 20:16-25 KJV)

Here we see Paul talking with the leaders of the church in Ephesus saying that he had preached to them the Kingdom of God.

 

[Tiberius Lee]

Well i selecteded Arminianism in your poll but i do not agree with point 1.. If God foreordained our free will choice then that choice is not ours and thus it is not fee will... So that point is calvinisim that is trying to look Arminain.. Asfar as i can see..

I consider calvinisism false..

Point 6.. You cannot say we chose and in point one say God ordains us to chose.. We either have free will or we don't..

Either you believe in Arminianism or Calvinism I hope you agree that “ no one can come to Jesus unless Father who send Jesus draw them to Jesus “ , I hope you will also agree that it is imperative Holy Sprit’s intervention during salvation who change our heart to accept Christ. Isaiah says all our righteousness is like filthy rag, Paul’s says flash desire fleshly things.

So the point is , if I can’t come/ chose Jesus unless Father draw me to Jesus, if I can’t accept Jesus unless Holy Spirit change my heart, and my flash only desire fleshly things, how can I chose to accept Christ with my free will.