The Papacy

[Epiphoskei]

Of course not, but the office of Pope is backed by scriptural and historical references.

Unless you transpose Peter into Pope, there are no scriptural references. Your first post tried to find one of those references, but only if you can just transpose Peter and Pope.

As for historical references, you'll find it difficult to attest any singular office of bishop when first century churches were lead by a plurality.

So, now we are not meant to read past what is just said on the page?
Jesus has to explicitly state exactly what He means for Him to mean anything?

That's kind of the Point of writing to someone. I have a message I want to transfer to you so I put it on a medium and expect you to take it the way I wrote it. The Bible means what it says.

 

[prodromos]

Then why did Christ establish Peter as above the other apostles?

He didn't

Why was Peter the one who made the final decision in the first Council at Jerusalem?

He wasn't

Why did Peter stay in Rome and not travel in missionary work like the rest?

Rome was the capital of the empire. People traveled to Rome from all over so it was unique in that regard. Note that Peter wasn't alone there. Paul was also in Rome, and the ECF's speak of the Church in Rome being established on Peter AND Paul.

John

 

[MamaZ]

We have God inspiring and "backing them up," so to speak.


"The Gates of Hell shall not Prevail against thee."

Kind of a guarantee, huh?

Not to the CC . For the gates of Death could not keep our saviour. He rose from the dead and victory is won in Christ.

 

[MamaZ]

Jesus was, and is, the Head, Peter is the rock on which Christ built the Church.

The Pope is Christ's Vicar.

Well according to the CC he is but according to scripture there is no vicar. LOL.. For we have no need for man to go between us and God for God does not father His children with a nanny..

 

[MaxP]

Unless you transpose Peter into Pope, there are no scriptural references. Your first post tried to find one of those references, but only if you can just transpose Peter and Pope.

As for historical references, you'll find it difficult to attest any singular office of bishop when first century churches were lead by a plurality.

Not true and not true. Christ singled Peter out to give to him special authority.
Need I re quote the scripture?
The letter of Clement?
The First Council at Jerusalem?

That's kind of the Point of writing to someone. I have a message I want to transfer to you so I put it on a medium and expect you to take it the way I wrote it. The Bible means what it says.

So you expect Christ to say "Hey Peter, you're the chief guy."?
When He already made it clear He was singling Peter out as especially important?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Not true and not true. Christ singled Peter out to give to him special authority.
Need I re quote the scripture?
The letter of Clement?
The First Council at Jerusalem?

So you expect Christ to say "Hey Peter, you're the chief guy."?
When He already made it clear He was singling Peter out as especially important?

Yeah, we forget the RC denomination view themselves as the new "Jews" today

 

[MaxP]

Well according to the CC he is but according to scripture there is no vicar. LOL.. For we have no need for man to go between us and God for God does not father His children with a nanny..

We have the Church to guide us. Why would He establish a Church? Why have Bishops? Why have clergy?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

We have the Church to guide us. Why would He establish a Church? Why have Bishops? Why have clergy?

But the RCC has done a rather poor job in the past in guiding the Lost Sheep otherwise there wouldn't be other denominations such as the Orthodox and Protestants

 

[MaxP]

Yeah, we forget the RC denomination view themselves as the new "Jews" today

The new covenant of Christianity completed and fulfilled the old of Judaism.
Every Christian is a "new Jew."

 

[MaxP]

But the RCC has done a rather poor job in the past in guiding the Lost Sheep otherwise there wouldn't be other denominations such as the Orthodox and Protestants

True, schismatics have fractured the Church.
The very fact there are so many different denominations shows the necessity of a Pope.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The new covenant of Christianity completed and fulfilled the old of Judaism.
Every Christian is a "new Jew."

That is also what the Jewish/Hebrew book of Revelation is showing the OC vs the NC

Reve 15:8 And is being-filled-full/repleted the Sanctuary of smoke out of the Glory of the God, and out of the power of Him. And no one [OC Law/Flesh] was able to be entering into the Sanctuary[NC/Spirit] until should be being finished the seven blows/stripes of the seven messengers

 

[Rick Otto]

quote=MaxP;A lot here believe it is an imagined office.

Including me.

He is telling Peter to feed his sheep, to care for His flock: giving Peter supremacy to "feed" the Church.

That doesn't give him supremacy.

I'm interested in those who deny the papacies' explanation of these.

So are the Jesuits.

I'm interested to hear the arguments against the papacy.

So you expect Christ to say "Hey Peter, you're the chief guy."?

Why not? Doesn't that seem plausible?

When He already made it clear He was singling Peter out as especially important?

Telling him to feed the sheep neither singles him out nor makes him any more important.

Why?

Indeed. Why make His body into a two-headed hierarchy when He'd already it made it a brotherhood & said He calls us friends?

 

[ticker]

The Papacy

...is neat-o!


EDIT:

...but that's about it.

 

[MaxP]

Including me.


That doesn't give him supremacy.

When you say to one of your children, take care of the rest, who are you clearly giving the leadership?

So are the Jesuits.

Good for them.

Why not? Doesn't that seem plausible?

When you say to one of your children, take care of the rest, who are you clearly giving the leadership?

Telling him to feed the sheep neither singles him out nor makes him any more important.

Why did He not tell the rest?
When you say to one of your children, take care of the rest, who are you clearly giving the leadership?

Indeed. Why make His body into a two-headed hierarchy when He'd already it made it a brotherhood & said He calls us friends?

He did not make It a hierarchy, he left us men to guide us when there is confusion. We have hundreds of protestant denominations, all teaching differently. Can you see the necessity of a hierarchy, guaranteed by Christ, to clear what is wrong and what is right?

EDIT: It is one-headed: He is the Head. He has the Pope as His representative on earth,

 

[ticker]

The proof that Christ constituted St. Peter head of His Church is found in Matthew 16:17-19, and John 21:15-17.

The proof that He didn't is found in Genesis 1:1 - Revelation 22:21.


EDIT:

(...if interpreted right of course).

 

[MaxP]

The proof that He didn't is found in Genesis 1:1 - Revelation 22:21.


EDIT:

(...if interpreted right of course).

The Genesis verse has nothing to do with it. It is quite literal in its meaning, no interpretation needed.

As for the Revelation quote, also a quite literal meaning. The grace of God be with God's people. Amen to that. Neither "prove" anything.

 

[ticker]

?

Who said anything about specific verses and quotes?

 

[MaxP]

?

Who said anything about specific verses and quotes?

I thought you meant the individual quotes, but I see you mean the entire Bible.
Clever, and completely without truth or substance.

 

[ticker]

Clever, and completely without truth or substance.

Bless you, bro.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Papacy... what does that mean?

Pope is like saying Father. So the Pope is to be like a father to those in the church. Pope comes from an Italian word that means papa so it is even endearing like a child speaking to a loving father.

All bishops arecalled to be fathers and share in the Keys given to Peter and his successors. But Peter held a high authority, a primacy, that the other Apostles did not share in. The early church saw Rome as the greatest of all the chrsitian churches. Some say for location reasons and some say because it was in the hub of commerce and such. But some say it is because Peter and Paul established the church there and were martyred there leaving successors as well.