The origins of atheism

[Archaeopteryx]

Indeed it does answer the question. The answer is: YOU cannot determine which is correct, it must be given to you...within.

Like "The Secret"?

 

[Colter]

I hope you didn't pay for that, because none of it is true.

There is no truth in you, so your opinion is from silence.

 

[Colter]

I'll cut to the punchline:

The kingdom of God is within you. You must look inward. You will not find validity out in the world or in others, unless you first validate it within yourself.

There are other pursuits that will tell you the same, but still look in the wrong places: nature is "created" and therefore not at the core or root; philosophy is [only] of the mind and knows nothing more than you do; intellect is [only] the philosophy of others; inner peace is a loop going nowhere; other gods are outward, the creation of other people. The One True God is within you. Call on Him, and He will answer. But be patient, your whole life is a part of His plan. He has given you time, give Him time as well.

They aren't looking for truth, they are trying to find error and the heart tends to become what it is focused upon. Those devoted to the doctrines of doubt continually recycle the same material objections.

 

[AirPo]

There is no truth in you, so your opinion is from silence.

Which is meaningless.

 

[asherahSamaria]

Enjoy your visit to the zoo. I hear the lion feeding is rather entertaining.

???

 

[Job8]

Equating God to a con man selling a bridge?

Where did you come up with this? That's a good way to dodge the issue which you failed to address -- the bizarre irrationality of atheism.

 

[ecco]

Dr Bruce Atkinson said: ↑

Given that death is coming to us all, what would be the advantages or disadvantages of believing in God ... if it turned out that there actually was no God? The consequences for believers and nonbelievers would be equal. No advantage either way. Everyone would be equally dead. No winners.

But what would be the advantages (or disadvantages) of believing (or disbelieving) in God if it turned out that there actually WAS a God, and there actually was a heaven and hell as the Bible teaches? In that case, there would be a huge difference in consequences for believers vs. unbelievers. Heaven vs. hell! Eternally! One cannot imagine a more weighty outcome. In this situation, you can’t really lose by believing. But you might lose BIG if you refuse to believe.
​

Let's not forget option #3. You believe in the christian god. What if one of the other gods is the real god? He would probably hold you in more contempt than he would an atheist. After all, an atheist like me is just ignorant. You, on the other hand, have studied and written about theology. You should have known better.

Who do you think is going to the badder hell?

 

[Bible Page]

Hello there everyone. I am sure this has been discussed before but I would like to start a new discussion on this. I want to hear your opinions on why do you think atheism exists and its cause. I will tell mine only after I see yours.

Origins of atheism? Life. Everyone is born atheist. Having no concept or belief in Deity.
Then they're taken into the fold of whatever their family and or cultural ideas are about such a topic and are hardwired to accept on faith something specific made everything that is infinite and wholly yet unknown. And those compartments humans created to squeeze all of reality into cleaved the world into tiny parts so that everyone who has an affinity for their particular particle of belief see others that are opposed as an enemy to be overcome.

The world could be a paradise if not for that. And the invention of money. If everything was always a barter system we'd have no poor, no poverty, no warfare.

But it is what it is. And we humans, the virus, the literal parasite, the only animal on earth capable of consciously inventing and then defining evil, have made this world what it is. Hell on earth. Paradise being where you find it and always starting from your mind.

 

[Job8]

Did God create himself?

Another attempt at dodging the issue. The issue is "Did creation create itself?" and "Did any item that exists on earth create itself?"

We have so much talk about "unsupported assertions". Well let those who talk about unsupported assertions PROVE that things simply create themselves. Let's begin with this elementary requirement.

 

[asherahSamaria]

Where did you come up with this? That's a good way to dodge the issue which you failed to address -- the bizarre irrationality of atheism.

the bizarre irrationality of atheism - and yet we have countless competing faiths and incompatible religions (never mind the denominational differences) all trumpeting their own version as the "Truth". Talk about bizarre irrationality.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

They aren't looking for truth, they are trying to find error and the heart tends to become what it is focused upon. Those devoted to the doctrines of doubt continually recycle the same material objections.

Would you care to answer the question? I've asked it of you many times before.

 

[AirPo]

Where did you come up with this? That's a good way to dodge the issue which you failed to address -- the bizarre irrationality of atheism.

From the post I quoted which compared God to a guy trying to sell a bridge.

And there is nothing irrational about atheism.

 

[AirPo]

Dr Bruce Atkinson said: ↑

Given that death is coming to us all, what would be the advantages or disadvantages of believing in God ... if it turned out that there actually was no God? The consequences for believers and nonbelievers would be equal. No advantage either way. Everyone would be equally dead. No winners.

But what would be the advantages (or disadvantages) of believing (or disbelieving) in God if it turned out that there actually WAS a God, and there actually was a heaven and hell as the Bible teaches? In that case, there would be a huge difference in consequences for believers vs. unbelievers. Heaven vs. hell! Eternally! One cannot imagine a more weighty outcome. In this situation, you can’t really lose by believing. But you might lose BIG if you refuse to believe.
​

Let's not forget option #3. You believe in the christian god. What if one of the other gods is the real god? He would probably hold you in more contempt than he would an atheist. After all, an atheist like me is just ignorant. You, on the other hand, have studied and written about theology. You should have known better.

Who do you think is going to the badder hell?

Yes, Pascal's wager, taken to it's logical conclusion, leads to atheism.

 

[Davian]

Spiritual, means to be "of" the spirit of God.

Only the spirit can test the spirit, and you do not have the spirit.
"We" are the children, "of" God.

So you claim. But if there is no definition of it, or test for it, how is anyone to know if you are not just making this up?

You cannot test what you cannot comprehend.

I cannot test what you cannot present coherently.

Why does it matter to you if we lie or tell the truth?

It matters when religionists that have access to our government, our school systems, and my children and want to push their particular beliefs as facts.

Some here have lied, some told the truth. You do not believe either version, because you do not know the difference. If you were of God, you would know when you heard the truth, but you are not of Him.

I do not think you are "of Him", your claims to the contrary notwithstanding.

Interpretations are for those who do not know the truth.

Is does appear that interpretations is all you have.

I share what I know. It is not a recital. I never said I believe.

Still, it is what you believe.

Since you repeat yourself and I have already answered

Your obfuscation did not address my question.

for whom I was, I will now answer for whom I am: I am.

More obfuscation. Your claims are dismissed.

 

[ecco]

Another attempt at dodging the issue. The issue is "Did creation create itself?" and "Did any item that exists on earth create itself?"

We have so much talk about "unsupported assertions". Well let those who talk about unsupported assertions PROVE that things simply create themselves. Let's begin with this elementary requirement.

For the sake of discussion, as an atheist, I'll go with the common christian belief: god is uncreated, god is eternal.

I will ask a question I posed earlier in this thread. I posed the question to a christian theist, but did not get an answer (with all due respect, this is a very busy thread, so I may have missed the answer). ((It may even have been in a different thread)). However, I'll ask it again.

• One premise is that god is eternal.
• A second premise (based on christian belief) is that the world is less than 20 billion years old.
• A third premise is that eternity is a lot longer than 20 billion years.

Therefore, a curious person would ask: What did god do for 99.999999999+% of his existence before he created "The Heavens And The Earth"?

 

[Davian]

I am.

So it is your Christian beliefs that are on the table.

I have, but you do not see, nor hear, nor do you perceive what the spirit says.

You still have not explained what "spirit" is.

A fact is that which is [actually] real, rather than just an image of what is real. On the contrary, nothing of the material world (your world) qualifies to be called a fact, but rather a fallacy.

More obfuscation.

You don't know Him.

If there is actually an all-knowing-all-powerful-whatever in your life, and the best you can do is say I-am-right-and-you-are-wrong, consider me sceptical.

 

[Davian]

There is no such thing as "higher knowledge."

It would appear that by "higher knowledge", he is referring to his beliefs.

 

[Davian]

It is curious what you are saying. I think it all relies on childhood, religious faith cannot be foisted upon a person; it is not something which is alien to man, but, on the contrary, it is an essential need of human nature, it constitutes the primary content of man’s inner life.
When we take care to have a child grow up truthful, good, when we develop in him a correct understanding of and a taste for beauty, we do not foist upon him something alien or extraneous to his nature; we only help him to extract this from within himself, we help him recognize within himself those traits and movements which are common to all human souls.

The same should be said concerning knowledge of God.

According to the principle of not foisting anything upon a child’s soul, we would generally have to renounce all assistance to the child in developing and strengthening the talents and capabilities of his soul. We would have to leave him to his own devices until he grew up and decided which principles to adopt and which to reject.
But in this case we would not have guarded the child from external influences, but would have only made these influences chaotic and arbitrary.

The people that run Jesus Camp would disagree, if the point is to maximize the number of believers.

Let us return to the question of why some people retain in their hearts a constant and unshakable faith until the end of their days, while others lose it, sometimes completely and sometimes returning to it with great difficulty and suffering?

What is the reason for such a phenomenon ? It seems to me that it depends on the direction which a person’s inner life takes in his early childhood. If a person, consciously or instinctively, is able to preserve a correct relationship between himself and God, he will not lose faith, but if his ego occupies an unseemly preeminent and dominant place in his soul, then his faith will be superceded. In early childhood a person’s nature does not yet occupy first place, does not yet become an object of worship. For this reason it is said: if you do not become like children, you will not enter the Heavenly Kingdom. As the years advance, our innate egoism grows more and more within us, becomes the center of our attention and the object of our gratification.

And this self-centered egoistic life usually runs along two channels - the channel of sensuality, gratification of the body, and the channel of pride, of strict trust in and worship of reason in general and one’s own in particular.

These two channels do not usually coexist within one and the same person. Some are dominated by the temptations of sensuality, while others by the temptations of reason. With age sensuality sometimes changes into unhealthy sexuality, from which those who are dominated by reason and pride are often free.
Sensuality and pride - two ways of serving one’s nature - are precisely those traits which, as we know, were manifested in the original sin of Adam and Eve, and created a barrier between them and God.

That which happened to our forebears, now happens to us.

The unhealthy direction of our inner life from childhood, which leads to the development within us of either sensuality or pride, pollutes the purity of our internal spiritual sight, deprives us of seeing God. We stray away from God, we remain alone in our egoistic life, with all the consequences of such a condition.
Such is the process of our abandonment of God.

In those, however, who succeed in keeping a correct relationship with God, the development of egoistic, sensual and proud attitudes is impeded by the memory of God; such people preserve their purity of heart and humbleness of mind; both their bodies and their minds are placed within a framework of religious consciousness and duty. They look upon all that springs up within their soul from the height of their religious consciousness, evaluate their feelings and passions properly, and do not allow them to take control. Despite all the temptations that come across their path, they do not lose the basic direction of their lives.

Interesting. Nothing in there about determining if one's beliefs are actually true.

 

[Davian]

People who know God have been saying down through all of history:

<snip>

The argument from antiquity is a fallacy.

 

[Davian]

If you look at the natural world as being all there is...that would be true (in that fishbowl corner of reality).

I cannot see what you only imagine.