The origins of atheism

[jenny1972]

I see. If you are not prepared to be honest in your responses, please take your disjointed sentences elsewhere.

no

 

[HitchSlap]

No, not exactly. Depending on the circumstances, I would be prepared to yield. But at the same time, I too would have to account for their possible overriding human input, and the possibility they haven't got a clue. I suspect that part of the human exchange of knowledge is consistent with us all. The difference is, SOME of us actually know there is REALLY a Source of ultimate truth among the other claims.

As for a third party looking on, the fulfillment of would be claims (fulfilled prophecy) is one way. The other is to not remain a bystander, and do your own research. Which many here have done, but to no avail, because they look to other peoples info, which is just a loop back to the pool of would be claims. No, the correct research would be direct from the Source. Ask, or even challenge. But in doing so, there is a common mistake that is made: You need to enter into it with the understanding of the circumstances. You need to have patience. For example: If you rang the doorbell on a little house and waited 2 minutes for someone to come to the door, you might expect that if someone were home, that is plenty of time for them to come to the door. But if it were a bigger house, you should expect to wait longer. Well, the time it takes a person to get across a big or little house is not the problem, in this case. The delay...is you. God is timeless. All matters of time are limited to us. So, if you ask God for an answer, you will be waiting until YOU are ready...not Him. Be patient.

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." NDT

 

[Dr Bruce Atkinson]

Sorry, if your comment is not to the point, I tend not to reply.


I guess you forgot the question in the OP and are confused.
Origin of atheism?

Animals are atheistic.
We are animals.
So, we are (were) atheistic (from the origin).

There are millions of animal kinds. Why should we be special?

Those animals which are not human cannot deal with the abstract world. How much science do you see among them? They also have less capacity for real choice; they are genetically programmed far more than we are. We have the capacity to learn far beyond the ability of chimps and dolphins. We can choose against our (rather limited) genetic programming. Other animals cannot believe in God and cannot disbelieve in God. Not an issue for them. So to assume they are atheistic is absurd. I can say that all animals are theistic just as well. You cannot prove it either way. Your logic fails because your original assumptions are in error.

 

[HitchSlap]

Those animals which are not human cannot deal with the abstract world. How much science do you see among them? They also have less capacity for real choice; they are genetically programmed far more than we are. We have the capacity to learn far beyond the ability of chimps and dolphins. We can choose against our (rather limited) genetic programming. Other animals cannot believe in God and cannot disbelieve in God. Not an issue for them. So to assume they are atheistic is absurd. I can say that all animals are theistic just as well. You cannot prove it either way. Your logic fails because your original assumptions are in error.

"Free will" is an illusion.

 

[Dr Bruce Atkinson]

"Faith is believing in something you know ain't true." MT

People may be mistaken in their beliefs, but no one chooses to believe in something that they know is not true. Not even delusional schizophrenics. People must be convinced in their own minds that something is true before they can believe it. You obviously do not understand the nature of belief.

 

[anonymous person]

"Free will" is an illusion.

I have always found this view interesting to say the least.

What are some of the implications of this view?

 

[ScottA]

That would be a point to consider if I were asking god, a king, or a president for knowledge...but I'm not. Im asking you.

Let's hear what you got.

Edit- I don't know why it put my reply into a quote. Sorry for that.

I can only tell you what I know, and of my experience.

As for what I got: I've got the kind of proof that is available to anyone who wants to get it from God (and not from another person). That proof can be in many forms, but it can only pass from God to a person, not from person to person.

 

[HitchSlap]

People may be mistaken in their beliefs, but no one chooses to believe in something that they know is not true. Not even delusional schizophrenics. People must be convinced in their own minds that something is true before they can believe it. You obviously do not understand the nature of belief.

Nor you the nature of faith.

 

[Dr Bruce Atkinson]

"Free will" is an illusion.

Perhaps for you, who may actually be a robot.
The reason why some people disbelieve in free will is that then it seems to eliminate culpability for their thoughts and actions. "I can't help it." Which of course is self-deceptive B.S.

 

[Dr Bruce Atkinson]

Nor you the nature of faith.

So you (who have no faith) can give me the short course on the nature of faith.

 

[ecco]

adam and eve were disbelievers(infidel) in the beginning, because God made them as users giving them to have a paradisiac(al) life free from religious obligations, and from this viewpoint the infidelity has existed since then, as for the atheism, it emerged as a response of some disbelievers under the pressure of the human religion, and then it evolved as a satanic tradition manifesting in places under the leadership of some spiritual workers with unclean intentions(wicked)

Your lack of punctuation and incoherent writing makes it hard to respond, but I'll give it a shot.

.
. time passes as ecco attempts to understand
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This is harder than I thought.

.
. more time passes as ecco attempts to understand
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adam and eve were disbelievers(infidel) in the beginning, because God made them as users giving them to have a paradisiac(al) life

Do you mean: Adam and Eve were disbelievers from the beginning even though god put them in an idyllic setting?

free from religious obligations, and from this viewpoint the infidelity has existed since then

Do you mean: Since Adam and Eve had no religious obligations, they committed infidelity and because they committed infidelity, people today are infidels?

as for the atheism, it emerged as a response of some disbelievers under the pressure of the human religion

Do you mean: Atheism started because some atheists were pressured by theists to became atheists?

and then it evolved as a satanic tradition manifesting in places under the leadership of some spiritual workers with unclean intentions(wicked)

Do you mean: Atheism evolved as a satanic tradition led by theists who don't like god?


I won't respond further until you can clarify your questions.

 

[HitchSlap]

I have always found this view interesting to say the least.

What are some of the implications of this view?

I read Sam Harris' book "Free Will," and now I'm more confused as ever on the subject.

"The illusion of free will is itself an illusion."

 

[HitchSlap]

So you (who have no faith) can give me the short course on the nature of faith.

Faith is not a virtue, and is nothing more than wish-thinking.

 

[ecco]

"Free will" is an illusion.

This atheist would disagree with you.

 

[HitchSlap]

This atheist would disagree with you.

Of course you do, you couldn't have chosen otherwise.

 

[Dr Bruce Atkinson]

I can only tell you what I know, and of my experience.

As for what I got: I've got the kind of proof that is available to anyone who wants to get it from God (and not from another person). That proof can be in many forms, but it can only pass from God to a person, not from person to person.

True in essence. However, it is also true that God (being God) can pass His truths effectively from person to person as well. Or else Jesus and the Apostles would not have needed to teach and persuade. God works through His people to spread the gospel. But I agree, without God's internal work on the person's spirit, no one would be "born again."

 

[HitchSlap]

Perhaps for you, who may actually be a robot.
The reason why some people disbelieve in free will is that then it seems to eliminate culpability for their thoughts and actions. "I can't help it." Which of course is self-deceptive B.S.

I've spoken nothing of abdicating personal responsibility, but rather our choices are neurological reactions formed before we're even aware of them. Much work has been done using fMRI technology, and Sam Harris' book, "Free Will" are his thoughts on the subject. It's an interesting read.

 

[Crandaddy]

Seems a bit simplistic to even say that a majority (51%) are atheists because of misotheism or the like. If anything, what you're characterizing would be antitheists specifically, not atheists in the nontheistic sense of general nonbelief

But notice the "and/or" I included there. It might simply be a case of misunderstanding. I frequently encounter atheists who aren't misotheists, but who think there can be more than one God, or that theistic belief is akin to belief in fairies or celestial teapots, or that God could possibly be evil, etc.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

This atheist would disagree with you.

I guess it depends on precisely what he means by 'free will' in this context. I tend towards the compatibilist view, but that's because I find the dualist libertarian view to be incoherent.

There is a sense in which - ironically - even if the universe was completely deterministic, we would have no choice but to act as if we have free will.

 

[Dr Bruce Atkinson]

Start a thread.



I daresay that most atheists do not hate, and have no problem, submitting to the secular laws of the land. Laws that have been developed over centuries of civilization. Laws that are far superior to the laws given in the bible:

• Edicts that permit people to own and beat slaves.
• Edicts that encourage raping young virgins after killing their mothers and young brothers.
• Edicts that encourage

Need I go on?


Interesting you used the pronoun "We". You are not an atheist, so when you say 'We all want to be our own little gods', you must be referring to theists like yourself.

In actuality, it is theists, especially conservative theists, that often point to their god to show their supposed superiority as if some of god has rubbed off on them.



Ah, "original sin". You are referring to Adam and Eve disobeying god's edict about the Tree of Knowledge. What theologians cannot reconcile is that an omniscient god knew A&E would partake of the apple long before He ever created them. He intentionally set them up to fail so that he would have a good reason later to brutally drown almost every living thing on earth.

The Eden story is about all of us. Consider it a metaphor if you will. God set them up with a choice. They could have forever chosen to trust God's word about the danger and thus never disobeyed. But they chose otherwise and yes, God was totally prepared to deal with it and ultimately fix it .... all the way to the Cross and beyond. God does no evil, but He can handle it when humans do it; He has a perfect plan. But not all will be on board with His plan. Some are His children and some are not.

BTW, I have no desire to start a thread on why some people have faith. I am content with the answer found in the scriptures.