The origins of atheism

[JonFromMinnesota]

we have convincing proof that God exists and we are not able to show it to you

Argument from personal experience is not convincing proof.
If I told you I had a personal experience when an invisible fairy told me there is a diamond the size of a refrigerator buried in my backyard, by your logic this is convincing proof that this fairy and diamond exist. This experience may have been very real to me but what reason do you have to think what I am telling you is true?

 

[Colter]

You can also get Larson's New Book of Cults, and it has a section on Urantia.

It was the right wing that killed Jesus, not the atheist, the agnostic, Liberals, the gays, the abortionists, the Cub Scouts. Rather it was the cream of pig headed religion that rejected Jesus' original pre-cross gospel and then set it sights on the Christian cult. Eventually the Roman cults mixed with Paul's Christian cult. The rest is history.

 

[Davian]

If you are not open to the best selling book of all time and the witness of hundreds of thousands who have the something that you are missing...then the "nothing" is on you.

Argumentum ad populum noted. Got anything else?

He's been into the fallacies for some time now. I don't think he has anything else.

 

[jenny1972]

Argument from personal experience is not convincing proof.

thats the reason im not trying to convince you why do you keep asking for more evidence than personal experience do you think it exists?

 

[Davian]

.. we have convincing proof that God exists and we are not able to show it to you ...

Yet you believe. Did you have this "proof" before you started believing?

 

[jenny1972]

Yet you believe. Did you have this "proof" before you started believing?

no i didnt believe in God until after God proved to me that He existed not before
but before i was an openminded seeker to the idea that a God could exist even though i was not convinced of it i was raised by athiests and didnt have any convincing experience with God personally until i was well into adulthood

 

[JonFromMinnesota]

no i didnt believe in God until after God proved to me that He existed not before
but before i was an openminded seeker to the idea that a God could exist even though i was not convinced of it i was raised by athiests and didnt have any convincing experience with God personally until i was well into adulthood

Why doesn't this God appear to everyone then? Surely an omniscient God would know what type of proof I require. Don't use the old tiresome argument of "you didnt have enough faith" either. I was raised Christian.

 

[Dr Bruce Atkinson]

Argument from personal experience is not convincing proof.
If I told you I had a personal experience when an invisible fairy told me there is a diamond the size of a refrigerator buried in my backyard, by your logic this is convincing proof that this fairy and diamond exist. This experience may have been very real to me but what reason do you have to think what I am telling you is true?

Very true. However, when billions of people have had similar experiences over many thousands of years, then one should sit up and pay attention. It is not just my personal experience anymore, it is the testimony of billions. And I happen to be one of them. My own experience has been very personal and subjective so I cannot convince anyone (unless perhaps they know me for many years and trust my judgment) but it has been certainly convincing to me. And I am a skeptical scientist. But for others, the evidence must more objective ... and the testimony of billions is pretty objective. Our courts accept the verdict of only 12.

 

[JonFromMinnesota]

Very true. However, when billions of people have had similar experiences over many thousands of years, then one should sit up and pay attention.

This is an appeal to populous fallacy. There are over a billion Hindus in the world, over a billion Muslims who have had personal experiences similar to yours. What makes yours any more true than theirs?

Our courts accept the verdict of only 12.

Personal experience is not evidence in the courts. If you were on trial for murder, should you be convicted because I said I have a strong feeling that you did it?

 

[AV1611VET]

Yet you seemingly admit the translation is wrong or stretch the meaning to something that is asinine...guess consistency isn't a virtue with you overall, just with certain things.

Huh?

I'm second to none here in stating:

Where the King James Bible differs with the originals, the originals are wrong.

 

[Dr Bruce Atkinson]

One of the reasons science is wrong is because science is myopic.

Myopic in the sense that science does not and cannot deal with issues of faith or morality. Such things are beyond its purview and arena of expertise. Science is not "wrong" in the sense of what it can deal with. Science is never about absolutes for science is always changing due to new research and new facts and new theories. Science is always immature and fallible. But necessary.

Christians believe that all truth is God's truth and that ultimately ... science and scripture will agree. This process may take awhile. : )

 

[jenny1972]

Why doesn't this God appear to everyone then? Surely an omniscient God would know what type of proof I require. Don't use the old tiresome argument of "you didnt have enough faith" either. I was raised Christian.

i dont know why but just because He hasnt yet does not mean that He never will. how can you be so sure that God will never convince you in the future of His existence?

 

[Colter]

Why doesn't this God appear to everyone then? Surely an omniscient God would know what type of proof I require. Don't use the old tiresome argument of "you didnt have enough faith" either. I was raised Christian.

When the pupil is ready, the teacher will appear.

 

[Dr Bruce Atkinson]

Hi Mark,
It's that 'knowing', inside of you, that you had to have come from somewhere, that there has to be some purpose to life, that causes the wonderment...
that causes you to want to know, what you do not know... because you know there is something there that you can't quite lay grasp to.

That's what I mean.... How can people NOT see the intelligent design behind everything?


'inner voices are your own' ... 'a product of psychology'...
Where do you think that comes from? Where does that 'psychology' come from?
Where do you think philosophy comes from?
Where do you think religion comes from?
Where does religion come from if not philosophy?

You see, you think everything you know comes from you...
but there is something greater than you, informing you, informing your conscience, informing your 'philosophy'.

Those 'external voices' come first from internal voices.


Don't you find that interesting? I do.
It seems that, those of us who say it must be being informed by a higher power.


Eudaimonia (also known as Eudaemonism) is a Greek word, which refers to a state of having a good indwelling spirit or being in a contented state of being healthy, happy and prosperous. In moral philosophy, eudaimonia is used to refer to the right actions as those that result in the well-being of an individual.

As I said;
It is that inner voice which is God living in you.

Peace and blessings to you.

There are many “inner voices” that speak to us. One may be from God. But it can be our own selfish desires, the voice of our parents, the voice of the culture, the voice of our subconscious, and perhaps even the voice of Satan. Discerning which voice is which is vitally important. How do we know if the voice is from God? As for me, when that voice is loving, gentle, firm, authoritative, and is consistent with the scriptures, then I have found that believing and going with it always ends up well. Always.

 

[AV1611VET]

Science is always immature and fallible. But necessary.

And wrong.

Imagine someone asking you to bake a cake, and it was baked the way science runs:

1. Oops! Left out an ingredient!
2. Oops! Those eating it are turning into deformities!
3. Oops! I made my cake too small! Now it's just one among thousands of other mini-cakes!
4. "Don't worry folks. We're never satisfied with our cakes! No one is perfect and omniscient! We'll keep trying!"
5. Oops! I just dropped my cake! Don't worry! We'll clean it up!
6. Oops! Another cake shows this wasn't really a cake in the first place! We thought it was!

And all the time this is going on, the chefs are getting prizes for their cakes!

 

[JonFromMinnesota]

When the pupil is ready, the teacher will appear.

Not a satisfactory answer. Surely an omniscient God with such an important message would have a better way of teaching than through personal experience. Seems petty.

 

[JonFromMinnesota]

And wrong.

Imagine someone asking you to bake a cake, and it was baked the way science runs:

1. Oops! Left out an ingredient!
2. Oops! Those eating it are turning into deformities!
3. Oops! I made my cake too small! Now it's just one among thousands of other mini-cakes!
4. "Don't worry folks. We're never satisfied with our cakes! No one is perfect and omniscient! We'll keep trying!"
5. Oops! I just dropped my cake! Don't worry! We'll clean it up!
6. Oops! Another cake shows this wasn't really a cake in the first place! We thought it was!

And all the time this is going on, the chefs are getting prizes for their cakes!

Science goes where the evidence takes it. Religion stays the same even when evidence contradicts it. I'll take science every day of the week.

Using a cake as an example is an incomplete comparison anyway. You're implying that new scientific discoveries are some how bad. You're wrong.

 

[AV1611VET]

When the pupil is ready, the teacher will appear.

And he will have his own mark of distinction, won't he?

 

[Colter]

Not a satisfactory answer. Surely an omniscient God with such an important message would have a better way of teaching than through personal experience. Seems petty.

There is no better way of learning than through experience. In Christ we have now a creator who lived the life of one of his own created beings. Even through death.

 

[Colter]

And he will have his own mark of distinction, won't he?

Yes, you will know the truth and the truth will make you free.