The origins of atheism

[Davian]

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/the-origins-of-atheism.7908716/page-33

Your link is broken. There is nothing there about you identifying yourself, or providing substantiation of your assertions.

The compelling reason...is you.

The burden of substantiating your assertions is on you. Is this news?

This is for you. I already have my ticket.

And who sold you that ticket?

“Selling eternal life is an unbeatable business, with no customers ever asking for their money back after the goods are not delivered.” ― Victor J. Stenger

 

[JonFromMinnesota]

http://www.amazon.com/Walking-Like-Einstein-greatest-spiritual/dp/1503109089

The description is dishonest about Einstein. Seems like he enjoys making things up to support his world view.

 

[JonFromMinnesota]

Yes.

Link to source please.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Not what I said. I said we can't know it's unknowable, therefore, it's rational to believe(accept the true statement) that it's knowable.

The "believe" = to accept as true.

It's exactly what you said.
Even if you wish to nuance a difference, it's the same nonsense.

If we can't know, then we can't know. And if we can't know, it's irrational to believe one way or the other.

If you don't know, then you don't know.

You don't have to believe it's knowable, but it is rational to believe it's knowable, since it would be impossible to know that its unknowable.

It makes no sense.

If you want you can swap out the word "believe" with "assume".

It still makes no sense.

We can't know it's unknowable, therefore, it's rational to assume that it's knowable and irrational to assume that it's unknowable.

It still doesn't make sense.

 

[Davian]

http://www.amazon.com/Walking-Like-Einstein-greatest-spiritual/dp/1503109089

Thanks.

Scott - you do know what Einstein thought of personal gods such as yours, do you not?

 

[Davian]

In your will and testament, do you address Santa? Because...you are writing it hear and now.

Why would I address Santa for that? Santa is the guy that you ask for free stuff from.

 

[JonFromMinnesota]

Thanks.

Scott - you do know what Einstein thought of personal gods such as yours, do you not?

"I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one. "
-Albert Einstein

 

[DogmaHunter]

Or is it lack of knowledge of the truth?

No, it's lack of belief in gods.

 

[Davian]

Take your pick. Six thousand, six billion

Are you unsure of the number?

...time is an illusion.

Do you need it to be in order to accommodate your beliefs?

I was there,

So were you with God, - or are you God?

and I am here.

So how old are you now? Or is age an illusion as well?

I tell the kids that I am 39-and-holding (to which the appropriate response is, how old would you be if you let go? )

Can you say the same?

Not in good company, unless I wish to be fitted for one of those fancy sport jackets with the extra long sleeves that buckle in the back. I find that the canvas chafes, don't you?

 

[ScottA]

Sure but what does that have to do with anything? I don't know what happens when we die but neither do you. You pretend to because you cannot comprehend not existing. It's wishful thinking. I don't think wishful thinking is healthy.
If I were to guess what happens when we die i'd say it will be much like before I was born....unconscious and non existent. Which I would be fine with because I won't know it anyway.

You assume I do not know. I know, and have died already, and yet live.

You are guessing. I am not.

1. In what context are you saying this in? Because I know what I see in terms of reality and I understand lots of things.

2. What does this even mean? You seem to write down whatever comes to your head first. Care to elaborate?

You are guessing. I mean, you do not understand any of this. But instead of considering it, you repel.

Time is an illusion. You will not be dead or alive, take away the illusion of time, and you ARE, what you are. This is your life, your time, your granted illusion of time, to help you decide your destiny.

What does this even mean? Again, you're just writing whatever comes to your head without an explanation. It's all just jibberish, nonsense to me. You need to be more clear and concise.

Nonsense, is that you believe what you see, while even science will tell you it is all an illusion. Truth then, comes not by seeing. If you can wrap you mind around that, then you just might have a shot at getting out of here alive. There IS something to all of this...and yes, live is more than what you experience in organic "created" non-existence. If you want to hold on to this reality that science can't even confirm...then welcome to Pixar, the world of light and magic. But when the lights go out and Mickey and Donald disappear...so will you.

I'm here to tell ya.

 

[Davian]

<snip even more religious assertions and scare tactics>

I'm here to tell ya.

You tell us lots. When do you get to the part where you substantiate what you are asserting?

Popcorn, anyone?

 

[DogmaHunter]

and that is the reason why debating God with athiests is completely useless and athiests debating there is no God with believers is completely useless nothing either group can say will ever convince the other group , we have convincing proof that God exists and we are not able to show it to you unfortunately only God can convince you none of us can or ever has no matter what we say equally true with athiests you cannot convince me that the TV sitting in my living room is not there , really i dont think there is anything more futile for all involved than debates between believers and athiests

If you can't show it, then you don't know it.

 

[quatona]

You assume I do not know. I know, and have died already, and yet live.

Stop the presses!! We have a guy in our midst who has been resurrected after more than 2000 years!

 

[ScottA]

Are you unsure of the number?

Do you need it to be in order to accommodate your beliefs?

So were you with God, - or are you God?

So how old are you now? Or is age an illusion as well?

I tell the kids that I am 39-and-holding (to which the appropriate response is, how old would you be if you let go? )

Not in good company, unless I wish to be fitted for one of those fancy sport jackets with the extra long sleeves that buckle in the back. I find that the canvas chafes, don't you?

1. There are no numbers, only yesterday, today, and forever.
2. No, we all need it to decide our destiny.
3. We are One.
4. You do not understand. Age is time (same illusion).
5. Perhaps a body bag.

Goodnight.

 

[DogmaHunter]

You would be surprised how many I have heard deny the possibility. Kudos.

I think you misunderstood him...
He's not acknowledging that he could be wrong.
He said that he understands how other people could think he could be wrong.

He himself... no, he doesn't think he can be wrong.

At least, that's how I understand his post.

 

[DogmaHunter]

can you prove to us that it isnt true?

Blatant attempt at shifting the burden of proof

 

[DogmaHunter]

True. And as a psychologist (not talking about religion at the moment), I can tell you that it is virtually impossible to convince someone (regardless of proofs) of something that they are fully committed to disbelieve. Everything we believe is a choice. I have seen many people deny the reality which is right before their eyes. Others have minds far to open and gullible, believing patently untrue ideas. So of course I cannot prove anything to you because absolutely nothing will convince you. The only reason I am interacting with you is because perhaps there are others with reasonably open minds who are reading this.

The projection is hilarious and depressing at the same time.

 

[Davian]

1. There are no numbers, only yesterday, today, and forever.

So you are unsure of the age of the universe?

2. No, we all need it to decide our destiny.

Belief is not a conscious choice. It is not something that I can freely decide.

3. We are One.

So you are God. Was this in the news? Did you write that into your book?

4. You do not understand. Age is time (same illusion).

Perhaps you should consider getting a new dictionary.

5. Perhaps a body bag.

Did I strike a nerve?

Goodnight.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Why are you mixing the "feelings" experiences with the "knowing" experiences?

Personal experience may not be evidence in the courts, but eyewitness testimony is. Why are you mixing these two also?

I invite you to take a look at this website: http://www.innocenceproject.org/causes-wrongful-conviction

The vast majority of false convictions are caused by testimony.
And how was it demonstrated that these convictions were false? Actual evidence.

 

[DogmaHunter]

No, eyewitness testimony is just as commonly excepted as physical evidence...

No, it's not.

For example...
Person A's testimony says that an alien space ship came crashing down in his backyard.
Physical evidence shows that what fell in his backyard is actually just a small space rock.

Physical evidence trumps testimony. Every single time.

and yes, I have a world of physical evidence. Shall I begin at the beginning?
"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." (testimony)
I submit the earth as evidence. (physical evidence)

Okay....

Vishnu, as soul of the entire cosmos, produces countless universes from his breathing and the pores of his skin. He enters each universe, as the universal soul. From his navel springs a lotus flower, upon which is born Brahma. Brahma performs austerity and creates the world from sound, beginning with the Gayatri-mantra (testimony)

I submit the universe as evidence (physical evidence).