The origins of atheism

[jenny1972]

Well scripture is the claim, not evidence. Can you demonstrate it to be true?

can you prove to us that it isnt true?

 

[Belk]

Although the billions who believe and testify to its effectiveness in their lives will not move you, perhaps you would be willing to examine the evidence. I invite readers to examine Josh McDowell’s “Evidence that Demands a Verdict,” Vol. I & 2. It is about objective scientific evidence as well as the opinions of many of the most intelligent and respected humans on the planet. I can predict that you will not do so because of the evidence here that you no longer have an open mind.

Feel free to start a thread on what you feel are the strongest pieces of evidence presented in the book and I will happily discuss it with you. I am not going to read a book simply because of a taunt.

 

[Dr Bruce Atkinson]

Well scripture is the claim, not evidence. Can you demonstrate it to be true?

No, not to your satisfaction. But thank you for the opportunity to explain why not. Although God has demonstrated His existence and love to my satisfaction, I cannot convince you, who do not even know me.

So why does God keep Himself so hidden and mysterious? Why has God not made Himself clearly known to all? I would submit that, for very good reasons, God has made it such that neither believers nor atheists can prove with overwhelming evidence their beliefs to other people. Here is why (quote by Pascal): “God has not appeared in a manner manifestly divine and absolutely capable of convincing everyone, but neither has His divinity been so hidden that He could not be recognized by those who sincerely sought Him. He wished to make Himself perfectly recognizable to these. His sheep will always hear his voice, and be attracted thereto.
“Thus wishing to appear openly to all those who ‘seek Him with all their heart’ and remain hidden from those who shun Him, He has qualified our knowledge of Him by giving signs which can be seen by those who truly want to find and know Him and not by those who do not. There is enough light for those who desire to see, and enough darkness for those of a contrary disposition.”

 

[JonFromMinnesota]

can you prove to us that it isnt true?

You're the one making a positive claim, the burden of proof is on you.

Can you prove that there isn't a teapot too small to be seen by a telescope orbiting around the moon? See the problem there? It's impossible to prove a negative. The burden of proof belongs to the one making a positive claim.

 

[ecco]

Because I live in a different country (Australia ) it is hard to keep up with all the posts. Many are made while I was asleep.

Then I hope you are having a pleasant Thursday while I am still laboring through Wednesday.

To answer the replies I found/ Eico it is true some Nazies were Christians but the leaders were Atheist .

Reread my post and research it for yourself.

 

[Dr Bruce Atkinson]

You're the one making a positive claim, the burden of proof is on you.

Can you prove that there isn't a teapot too small to be seen by a telescope orbiting around the moon? See the problem there? It's impossible to prove a negative. The burden of proof belongs to the one making a positive claim.

True. And as a psychologist (not talking about religion at the moment), I can tell you that it is virtually impossible to convince someone (regardless of proofs) of something that they are fully committed to disbelieve. Everything we believe is a choice. I have seen many people deny the reality which is right before their eyes. Others have minds far to open and gullible, believing patently untrue ideas. So of course I cannot prove anything to you because absolutely nothing will convince you. The only reason I am interacting with you is because perhaps there are others with reasonably open minds who are reading this.

 

[AV1611VET]

Go live like they did in the Stone Age for a year and then tell me science is wrong.

No, thanks.

When science contradicts the Bible, science is wrong.

When science does not contradict the Bible, science can be right.

When science agrees with the Bible, science is right.

 

[Dr Bruce Atkinson]

Feel free to start a thread on what you feel are the strongest pieces of evidence presented in the book and I will happily discuss it with you. I am not going to read a book simply because of a taunt.

Of course you won't. It is the huge amount of evidence that is convincing, not a few quotes.

 

[Dr Bruce Atkinson]

Then I hope you are having a pleasant Thursday while I am still laboring through Wednesday.


Reread my post and research it for yourself.

Unfortunately, many people can call themselves Christians but not really be Christians. It is called nominal faith (Christians in name only, or CINOs). And of course it depends on one's definition of what it means to be a Christian. The Nazi leaders proved that they were not real Christians. Jesus said "You shall know the tree by its fruit."

 

[jenny1972]

You're the one making a positive claim, the burden of proof is on you.

Can you prove that there isn't a teapot too small to be seen by a telescope orbiting around the moon? See the problem there? It's impossible to prove a negative. The burden of proof belongs to the one making a positive claim.

but none of us is trying to convince you of anything or believe that you even can be convinced by anything other than God revealing Himself and proving to you individually well im not anyways , so why would we waste our time presenting unconvincing evidence to you that you are just going to dismiss for one reason or another because you are not open to the possibility that there might be a God ? do you respect Albert Einstein see what he says about this just too perfect to be random universe that we exist in google and read some einstein quotes , you have no respect for believers you think were all just brainwashed fools our experience and perceptions are just as worthless to you as what we might think is convincing to you . it has to come from someone you greatly respect or from your own personal experience .

 

[Dr Bruce Atkinson]

No, thanks.

When science contradicts the Bible, science is wrong.

When science does not contradict the Bible, science can be right.

When science agrees with the Bible, science is right.

Thanks finally for the clarification. Because all truth is God's truth, I believe that someday science will catch up to the scriptures. But not today. Science is like a baby, with lots of growing to do.

 

[JonFromMinnesota]

but none of us is trying to convince you of anything or believe that you even can be convinced by anything other than God revealing Himself and proving to you individually so why would we waste our time presenting unconvincing evidence to you that you are just going to dismiss for one reason or another because you are not open to the possibility that there might be a God ?

I am open to the possibility of a God if compelling evidence presents itself. There is no evidence, therefore I do not think I have a good reason to believe any of it it to be true. I am open to the possibility of being wrong. Are you?

 

[Dr Bruce Atkinson]

I am open to the possibility of a God if compelling evidence presents itself. There is no evidence, therefore I do not think I have a good reason to believe any of it it to be true. I am open to the possibility of being wrong. Are you?

Anything is possible.
If you are being honest about "compelling evidence," Jon from Minnesota, then I am praying that God provide such compelling evidence to you this week. Get back with us when it happens.

 

[JonFromMinnesota]

Thanks finally for the clarification. Because all truth is God's truth, I believe that someday science will catch up to the scriptures. But not today. Science is like a baby, with lots of growing to do.

Ummm....okay?
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Biblical_scientific_errors
http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Scientific_inaccuracies_in_the_Bible

 

[JonFromMinnesota]

Anything is possible.
If you are being honest about "compelling evidence," Jon from Minnesota, then I am praying that God provide such compelling evidence to you this week. Get back with us when it happens.

Okay. And if I come back on Sunday to this post and nothing has happened, will you admit you were wrong?

 

[LynnC]

This wasn't addressed to me and is the flip side of of the question raised in the OP, however, I'd like to respond.

As the earliest humans developed language abilities they used these new found skills to pass information on from generation to generation. At some point, they started wondering about the world around them and their existence. Where do we come from? Why do good people get sick and die? What happens to us when we die?

"Where do we come from" was addressed by every culture around the world. There are thousands of creation stories, none more or less compelling than those in the OT.

• If god (or gods) made everything, who/what made god/s? God (the gods) have always existed.
• Why do good people get sick and die? The ways of god (the gods) are indeed mysterious.
• What happens to us when we die? Good people join him in the clouds, bad people go into the fires of volcanoes.

God/s was used/were used to explain everything that "leaders" could not explain.

• What causes lightning? The gods are throwing mighty spears at each other.
• Why have the rains not come? God is angry with us.
• What can we do to appease god? Slaughter a lamb / sacrifice a virgin.

I could go on, but you get the idea. Thanks for asking.

Hi Ecco,
You've just described philosophy.
the study of the fundamental nature of knowledge, reality, and existence

 

[LynnC]

In Numbers 31:7-18 the Israelites kill all the Midianites except for the virgins, whom they are allowed to rape as spoils of war.​

From your link:

17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
18 But all the women-children, that have not known man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.​

Consider:
A family of four. A woman, her husband, their 3 year old son and their 10 year old daughter.
The husband/father has already been slain
The wife/mother will be slain
The 3 year old son will be slain

What do you think is going to happen to the 10 year old daughter?

Do you believe a nice 14 year old boy is going to say “When we get older I'd like to marry you”?


Really? They have already slain all the men, all the older women, all the young boys. Are so enamored with the bible that you find it impossible to apply any critical thinking?

Greetings Ecco,
I think we can not deduce, by what is written, that it was a rape culture.
That would be making presumptions without proper evidence.
I can't disprove what you want to believe, but neither do I jump to the worst of all conclusions without evidence.

 

[Davian]

no i didnt believe in God until after God proved to me that He existed not before

How did you know that it was God doing the proving?

 

[Belk]

Of course you won't. It is the huge amount of evidence that is convincing, not a few quotes.

I take it you will not be starting a thread to discuss said huge amount of evidence?

 

[LynnC]

There are factual inaccuracies in there which I would like to correct, and which undermine your argument, but I would risk being in breach of forum rules. We can't go into this subject I'm afraid.

Greetings Oafman,
a breech of forum rules? really? we can't discuss? What is the point of having a forum?
Seems really odd.