The order of fossils in the geological column

[Queller]

The earth is clearly older than 6000-10,000 years. The earth clearly shows evidence of past global upheaval that predates the modern era by long time spans. The fossil record reveals ancient creatures never seen by modern man.

All of this is correct.

It's also impossible in a world that "was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."

There could be no fossils of ancient creatures never seen by modern man if the earth was without form and nothing but water. Where would these fossils be kept until God created dry land on Day 3?

Why would God create a first-time earth with plate tectonics, earthquakes, volcanoes, violent weather, droughts and floods.

Because that's the way the physical laws He created work in the universe He created.

The bible indicates strongly that the ancient earth was created for the angels, not for man. They shouted and sang for joy when the foundations of earth were laid. This was their 'habitation' and their 'estate'. They weren't happy with this and left, seeking equality with God in his spiritual realm, who had provided this paradise for them. God, in his righteous anger, destroyed the earth he had made for them, turning it into a wasteland. He changed their once beautiful physical appearance into the monsters we find in the fossil record. They roamed a tormented earth for perhaps millions of years before God put an end to these horrible bodies in yet another cataclysm. This is what happened between verse 1 and verse 2. GAP theory stands.

Cool story. I would love to see the Biblical support for it.

BTW, are you saying that this

used to be angel that God got angry at?

 

[Queller]

God doesn't make mistakes, he reacts to mistakes.

Does this mean you do not believe God created everything in the universe?

 

[Queller]

Intentional, but not evil.

Oh I can't wait to hear the explanation for what evil was before it was evil.

 

[TLK Valentine]

The bible indicates strongly that the ancient earth was created for the angels, not for man.

So we get their hand-me-downs. Short end of the Cosmic Stick, that.

They shouted and sang for joy when the foundations of earth were laid. This was their 'habitation' and their 'estate'. They weren't happy with this and left, seeking equality with God in his spiritual realm, who had provided this paradise for them.

Well, that went sideways pretty quickly, didn't it? One minute they're shouting and singing for joy, the next minute, they're looking to trade up.

God, in his righteous anger, destroyed the earth he had made for them, turning it into a wasteland. He changed their once beautiful physical appearance into the monsters we find in the fossil record. They roamed a tormented earth for perhaps millions of years before God put an end to these horrible bodies in yet another cataclysm. This is what happened between verse 1 and verse 2. GAP theory stands.

Meanwhile, God, having learned absolutely nothing from this debacle, creates another Earth, creates another race of beings -- this time, in His image -- to inhabit it, and hires the disgruntled ex-tenants of the last one to serve Him as His messengers and errand boys.

Question: did God, at any point in that GAP between verse one and verse 2, suffer some sort of retrograde amnesia as a result of the revolt, honestly expect things to turn out differently the second time around, or simply not care?

 

[dad]

Which is 3,500 years too long for the Flood.

If that rate held true we have about 250 feet equalling 200 years. If we want 4500 years that would mean ( I don't believe the rate applied because the state did not apply, however..) what, over a mile deep!?

No s&%! Sherlock. That's why ice cores for dating purposes are taken from areas that DO NOT have wildly varying ice and snow deposits.

If the WORLD had different degrees of snow and ice, how can you find some place on the planet that was exempt? If the founts of the deep, for example (?) shot up fast freezing agents with the water in some areas, the snow and ice would be massive in scale!

Not even slightly. In fact, had there actually been a global flood, all of those ice layers would have been washed away and they would start over 4,500 years ago. They don't, which provides evidence of the fact that there was NOT a global Flood 4,500 years ago.

Not if it was after or during the end part also. Not if the great wind was cold that caused the worldwide water levels to go down (?) There are many possibilities, besides a fanatical exclusion of all state change and or flood effects!!

 

[dad]

Then why did you claim it did?

I was referring to how the moon supposedly started out on earth as a result of a crash of the imaginary planet. You see, backwards extrapolation ends right on earth for the moon!

That is the current accepted theory yes.

Ho ha!

Like I said the RATE project was actively trying to disprove long ages and a same state past and they could not do it.If you want to claim their findings are false then it's up to you to explain why those findings are false.

Simple, they assume a same state past...same mistake as science.

If space and time were unknown then you might have a point. Since that is not the case, you're out of luck.

Great, so show me how we know time exists in deep space the same as in our solar system? Really, let's see that.

I didn't ask about science. I asked about YOU and YOUR HYPOTHESIS.

Once we see that science cannot tell us, all that remains is for every man to run to the best belief. The year is 2014 because Jesus came. No belief is anything near the proven and tested world changing bible!

Yes, He did, and nowhere in all the things He has told us is there anything about the laws of the universe being different 6,000 years ago.

He told us this nature and earth are temporary, and the worlds of both the future and far past are exceedingly different than this present state. No question.

Exactly, and that is why science makes no claims whatsoever about whether God exists or not. Science cannot study the supernatural.[/quote]

 

[[serious]]

Once we see that science cannot tell us, all that remains is for every man to run to the best belief. The year is 2014 because Jesus came. No belief is anything near the proven and tested world changing bible!

You seem to be assuming that the gregorian calendar is the only one in use. It would be equally true to say that it's year 44 because UTC.

 

[Queller]

If that rate held true we have about 250 feet equalling 200 years. If we want 4500 years that would mean ( I don't believe the rate applied because the state did not apply, however..) what, over a mile deep!?

Yet another reason not to rely on ice core dating from areas that don't get consistent rates of snowfall.

If the WORLD had different degrees of snow and ice, how can you find some place on the planet that was exempt? If the founts of the deep, for example (?) shot up fast freezing agents with the water in some areas, the snow and ice would be massive in scale!

And if Poseidon swirls his trident in a circle, we get a maelstrom.

Do you ever think before you type? Now you have the fountains of the great deep launching freezing water up from the depths of the earth where it is hotter than it is on the surface. Is there no ridiculous idea you won't claim is possible if you think it might help your case? What's next, a giant comet breaking up in the earth's atmosphere and causing global cooling?

Not if it was after or during the end part also.

Not if WHAT was after or during the end part?

Not if the great wind was cold that caused the worldwide water levels to go down (?)

I have no idea what yuou think this is supposed to do.

There are many possibilities, besides a fanatical exclusion of all state change and or flood effects!!

The only person on this board that is fanatical about a state change is you. You keep claiming that the physical laws of the past were different without any evidence whatsoever.

 

[Queller]

I was referring to how the moon supposedly started out on earth as a result of a crash of the imaginary planet.

Then you should have said that instead of saying

One example is looking at the orbit of the moon. They work backwards till they smash it into planet earth!

[/quote] You see, backwards extrapolation ends right on earth for the moon!
[/quote] No it doesn't. The moon did not erupt from the earth just as it is. The moon didn't form as it is until later.

Ho ha!

Bless you.

Simple, they assume a same state past...same mistake as science.

False. They went actively looking for a different state past and could find no evidence for it. You really should at least read about these things before you start making ignorant pronouncements about them.

Great, so show me how we know time exists in deep space the same as in our solar system? Really, let's see that.

I didn't say time exists the same. You claimed time was UNKNOWN. "Unknown" and "not the same" are two different concepts.

Once we see that science cannot tell us, all that remains is for every man to run to the best belief.

Not being able to answer every question RIGHT NOW, and not being able to EVER answer the question are two differnt things. You seem to have a problem with conflation.

The year is 2014 because Jesus came. No belief is anything near the proven and tested world changing bible!

He told us this nature and earth are temporary, and the worlds of both the future and far past are exceedingly different than this present state. No question.

No He didn't say that. Feel free to trot out some Bible verses if you think it will help. And no, lions and lambs lying down together is NOT "exceedingly different".

 

[Queller]

You seem to be assuming that the gregorian calendar is the only one in use. It would be equally true to say that it's year 44 because UTC.

Or that it is the year 5774 because the Messiah has not yet arrived.

 

[dad]

You seem to be assuming that the gregorian calendar is the only one in use. It would be equally true to say that it's year 44 because UTC.

From China we see this

"From January 15. to February 28., 2014, Chongqing will dispatch six cultural delegations to seven countries, celebrating Spring Festival with Chinese people living in foreign countries, according to Chongqing Commission…"

Latest | The China Times

From Russia

"
What the Papers Say, May 6, 2014"



Search | The Moscow Times


Wanna go to Washington or London of Berlin next?

 

[dad]

Yet another reason not to rely on ice core dating from areas that don't get consistent rates of snowfall.

I do better I don't rely on any ice core dates for the far past.

And if Poseidon swirls his trident in a circle, we get a maelstrom.

Do you ever think before you type? Now you have the fountains of the great deep launching freezing water up from the depths of the earth where it is hotter than it is on the surface. Is there no ridiculous idea you won't claim is possible if you think it might help your case? What's next, a giant comet breaking up in the earth's atmosphere and causing global cooling?

No. I raised the possibility of chemical agents coming up with the water. In the former state no less! I do not assume the earth was hotter in the former state either. The heat could have been a product of friction from the rapid continental movement. In this present nature one can change liquid nitrogen to a solid.


"Liquid nitrogen can easily be converted to a solid by placing it in a vacuum chamber pumped by a rotary vacuum pump..."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_nitrogen

So shooting stuff up could mean that a reaction like freezing could take a little time after it gets at or near the surface!

Not if WHAT was after or during the end part?

The end part of the change of states? That would mean that friction would produce great heat for example. In the former state, that was noot the case because in creation week we had waters and land separated on the planet without a threat to life from heat.

The only person on this board that is fanatical about a state change is you. You keep claiming that the physical laws of the past were different without any evidence whatsoever.

How could they NOT have been if the bible is true????

 

[dad]

False. They went actively looking for a different state past and could find no evidence for it.

In your own words HOW did they look for a different state past???

I didn't say time exists the same. You claimed time was UNKNOWN.

If you cannot claim it is the same what else could we call it BUT unknown!

"Unknown" and "not the same" are two different concepts.

If you claim to know how time exists in the far universe get to it man. You are bluffing.

Not being able to answer every question RIGHT NOW, and not being able to EVER answer the question are two differnt things. You seem to have a problem with conflation.

No problem at all, we just watch you NOT answer.

No He didn't say that. Feel free to trot out some Bible verses if you think it will help. And no, lions and lambs lying down together is NOT "exceedingly different".

Forget lions, He out and out said a new earth and heavens were coming!

 

[szechuan]

I do better I don't rely on any ice core dates for the far past.

There are many other ways to date, all of them never pointing to the world being 6000 years old.

 

[Strathos]

There are many other ways to date, all of them never pointing to the world being 6000 years old.

Quite funny that all of these independent methods would corroborate each other and return the same results.

If they all returned wildly different results, dad's "past state" hypothesis might actually have something to it. But the fact that they all converge proves that either they're correct, or some deliberate deception is going on.

 

[Armoured]

Quite funny that all of these independent methods would corroborate each other and return the same results.

If they all returned wildly different results, dad's "past state" hypothesis might actually have something to it. But the fact that they all converge proves that either they're correct, or some deliberate deception is going on.

And our usual YEC suspects will claim a deliberate deception 'til blue in the face. All those evil Darwinists have to get their billion dollar tax payer funded government grants somehow, donchaknow?

 

[szechuan]

Quite funny that all of these independent methods would corroborate each other and return the same results.

If they all returned wildly different results, dad's "past state" hypothesis might actually have something to it. But the fact that they all converge proves that either they're correct, or some deliberate deception is going on.

I agree, which is absurd. Some methods are more accurate than others, but they none of them ever point to the world only being 6000 years old. Some tree's are older than 6000 years old.

 

[AV1611VET]

Quite funny that all of these independent methods would corroborate each other and return the same results.

From machines and equipment calibrated to do so, no doubt.

 

[szechuan]

From machines and equipment calibrated to do so, no doubt.

And the Book about a God was calibrated by human hands to make people believe in fairy tales.

 

[Strathos]

From machines and equipment calibrated to do so, no doubt.

Nope. Completely different methods, tests run by completely different scientists, at different time in history, all returning convergent results.

If a dozen rulers, yardsticks, measuring tapes, lasers, and other devices all say an object is one meter long, they're not all "calibrated" to measure that specific object as being one meter long, especially when they return other results for other objects. That's a conspiracy, and a nonsensical one at that.