The order of fossils in the geological column

[szechuan]

Some people would say the evidence is in the world around us, but anyways aren't you agnostic? My statement shouldn't have been an issue to you...

Yes, but that evidence isn't really evidence since that evidence isn't backed up by science. I can say gravity doesn't exist because I can't see it, science explains it is clearly a natural phenomenon and has been proven to exist although I can't see it.

I personally don't claim god doesn't exist, science does. In the field of science it's completely understandable where they are coming from.

 

[Dusty Bin]

Why do atheists like us believe gods don't exist even though technically there isn't much evidence against the existence of gods in general?

Where do you draw the line? do we believe something when it is show to exist? or do we believe everything until it is shown not to exist? one way is easy the other is impossible.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Where do you draw the line? do we believe something when it is show to exist? or do we believe everything until it is shown not to exist? one way is easy the other is impossible.

I see no evidence for a god to exist, especially not any that match up with any religion. That is the objective stuff. The subjective, my opinion/conclusion, is that gods don't exist, although my reasonings for coming to that conclusion are a bit more complicated than that. In any case, I recognize that my thinking there are no gods isn't a proven fact, but it is what I think to be true nevertheless. I imagine it is much the same for religious people, they just reached a different personal, subjective conclusion.

 

[szechuan]

Where do you draw the line? do we believe something when it is show to exist? or do we believe everything until it is shown not to exist? one way is easy the other is impossible.

Well Scientists, don't believe in Extra Terrestrials but they still are trying to find the existence of them.

We can always believe that Aliens exist, but as of now they clearly don't.

The question you ask is completely black and white. A better question would be asking could something potentially exist and yes it can but it doesn't exist until it is proven.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Well Scientists, don't believe in Extra Terrestrials but they still are trying to find the existence of them.

We can always believe that Aliens exist, but as of now they clearly don't.

The question you ask is completely black and white. A better question would be asking could something potentially exist and yes it can but it doesn't exist until it is proven.

Well, I don't know, someone could have argued in the past that gravity didn't exist before it was proven, but that doesn't stop gravity from having existed since long before it was proven to exist.

 

[Dusty Bin]

I see no evidence for a god to exist, especially not any that match up with any religion. That is the objective stuff. The subjective, my opinion/conclusion, is that gods don't exist, although my reasonings for coming to that conclusion are a bit more complicated than that. In any case, I recognize that my thinking there are no gods isn't a proven fact, but it is what I think to be true nevertheless. I imagine it is much the same for religious people, they just reached a different personal, subjective conclusion.

Have you spent as much time over everything that might exist or just the one that took your fancy?
did you do the same for all regions claims or just the one your were raised near?

Why do you think the claims always centre around the supernatural? what and where is the supernatural? no one knows.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Have you spent as much time over everything that might exist or just the one that took your fancy?
did you do the same for all regions claims or just the one your were raised near?

Why do you think the claims always centre around the supernatural? what and where is the supernatural? no one knows.

I have looked into many religions, and read many myths and legends.i am particularly entertained by Greek myths, but I have also read the bible, a few Norse Myths, exposure to portions of the Hindu religious texts, know a bit of the history behind Buddhism and what that faith believes, an understanding of the basics of Islam, although I am a bit rusty on that. I also know stuff in regards to some of the fringe religions such as Scientology.

Why the supernatural? Well, the supernatural is basically what is unknown, people are fascinated and afraid of the unknown at the same time, thus why religions center around the supernatural.

 

[Armoured]

I know what it is I ask why on earth you would believe it.

You're not going to get an answer you find satisfactory, sorry.

 

[Dusty Bin]

You're not going to get an answer you find satisfactory, sorry.

I know, if you don't understand why how can I expect you to explain it to me.

 

[Armoured]

I know, if you don't understand why how can I expect you to explain it to me.

I understand why perfectly. I just know it's a wholly subjective why, which won't satisfy your need for an objective one.

 

[Dusty Bin]

I understand why perfectly. I just know it's a wholly subjective why, which won't satisfy your need for an objective one.

So are you saying that you have no reason to believe as you do other than the fact that you want too?
I'm asking because I don't understand why anyone would use "faith" to believe anything, using faith just means that what you want to believe has no evidence that would cause you to believe without it.

If I wanted to believe I had an invisible parrot on my shoulder how do you suggest I go about it? use faith?

 

[Armoured]

So are you saying that you have no reason to believe as you do other than the fact that you want too?
I'm asking because I don't understand why anyone would use "faith" to believe anything, using faith just means that what you want to believe has no evidence that would cause you to believe without it.

If I wanted to believe I had an invisible parrot on my shoulder how do you suggest I go about it? use faith?

Um, no, that's not what I'm saying at all. I have plenty of reasons for my faith, but they are personal, subjective reasons that are applicable to me. Desire to believe doesn't have much to do with it. I could lie to you and say "yes, if you want to believe just do x,y, and z" or speak in condescending, meaningless platitudes that end up doing nothing but implying your lack of faith is caused by a personal shortcoming, but I prefer to be honest and tell you up front that I don't have an objective answer for you. I'd have thought most people would appreciate the honesty.

And, just as a sidenote, I don't know if it's intentional or not, your last came off as a little angry and aggressive. I don't think that's warranted.

 

[Dusty Bin]

So are you saying that you have no reason to believe as you do other than the fact that you want too?
I'm asking because I don't understand why anyone would use "faith" to believe anything, using faith just means that what you want to believe has no evidence that would cause you to believe without it.

If I wanted to believe I had an invisible parrot on my shoulder how do you suggest I go about it? use faith?

Um, no, that's not what I'm saying at all. I have plenty of reasons for my faith, but they are personal, subjective reasons that are applicable to me. Desire to believe doesn't have much to do with it. I could lie to you and say "yes, if you want to believe just do x,y, and z" or speak in condescending, meaningless platitudes that end up doing nothing but implying your lack of faith is caused by a personal shortcoming, but I prefer to be honest and tell you up front that I don't have an objective answer for you. I'd have thought most people would appreciate the honesty.

And, just as a sidenote, I don't know if it's intentional or not, your last came off as a little angry and aggressive. I don't think that's warranted.

No anger or aggression intended, I an not angry at all, and I do appreciate your honesty, but I don't think it's really honesty, you don't seem to be able to convey the reason why you believe because (in my opinion) you don't have one, objective or otherwise, why are you not a Muslim? (still no anger it's just a question)
If I come across as pushy it's simple because I am at a complete loss as to why anyone would believe in an obvious myth,
I just do not understand, perhaps my brain is wired up wrong I don't know.

 

[Armoured]

No anger or aggression intended, I an not angry at all, and I do appreciate your honesty, but I don't think it's really honesty, you don't seem to be able to convey the reason why you believe because (in my opinion) you don't have one, objective or otherwise, why are you not a Muslim? (still no anger it's just a question)
If I come across as pushy it's simple because I am at a complete loss as to why anyone would believe in an obvious myth,
I just do not understand, perhaps my brain is wired up wrong I don't know.

OK, well I'm glad no aggression was intended, and I'm sorry I misread you. *sigh* OK, so I'll try... my faith has sustained me at several moments of very dark ebb. Saved my life, even. Yep. I have experienced comfort and strengthening that I am unable to account for in purely rational terms, and I acknowledge the Christian God as the source of that.

See? Told you you wouldn't be satisfied.

 

[Dusty Bin]

OK, well I'm glad no aggression was intended, and I'm sorry I misread you. *sigh* OK, so I'll try... my faith has sustained me at several moments of very dark ebb. Saved my life, even. Yep. I have experienced comfort and strengthening that I am unable to account for in purely rational terms, and I acknowledge the Christian God as the source of that.

See? Told you you wouldn't be satisfied.

Perhaps I'm not but what I don't understand is why you would think a mythical being like a Christian God had anything to do with you getting over troubled times, you must know that it was you doing it all along, you were using an idea that someone or something was helping you because you felt like you could not do it on your own, some people have their dead fathers or mothers watching over them and helping them, what's that all about?

When you came out the other end of your troubles you must surly have realised what had happened? you are alone in your head so if you feel someone else is in there with you it must have been you who put them there.

Now I have another problem, I don't understand why you don't understand.

 

[Armoured]

Perhaps I'm not but what I don't understand is why you would think a mythical being like a Christian God had anything to do with you getting over troubled times, you must know that it was you doing it all along, you were using an idea that someone or something was helping you because you felt like you could not do it on your own, some people have their dead fathers or mothers watching over them and helping them, what's that all about?

When you came out the other end of your troubles you must surly have realised what had happened? you are alone in your head so if you feel someone else is in there with you it must have been you who put them there.

Now I have another problem, I don't understand why you don't understand.

Sorry if this seems forward, but how old are you? I'm sure this isn't the first time you've encountered people with differing interpretations to a subjective experience? My counterpoint is simple. How do you know that it was all "just in my head", and not exactly as I say, an experience of the divine?

 

[Dusty Bin]

Sorry if this seems forward, but how old are you? I'm sure this isn't the first time you've encountered people with differing interpretations to a subjective experience? My counterpoint is simple. How do you know that it was all "just in my head", and not exactly as I say, an experience of the divine?

I'm 29 and married, I'm British and I don't know any (I don't think I do) religious people.

How do I know it was just in your head? that's like saying, how do I know that a cloaked alien was not stood behind you putting thoughts in your head? I ask is it likely? and my answer is no.
Why couldn't the divine experience have been brought about by Allah? why the Christian God, we both know the answer to that don't we? you have only had dealings with the Christian God, that's why near death experiences all over the world conform to the religion of the person the experience happens too, they all see what they have been taught to see.

You will believe what you want to believe no matter what the truth is so perhaps we should leave it there,
it was nice talking to you even though I will never ever understand where you're coming from.
Take care.

 

[AV1611VET]

why the Christian God, we both know the answer to that don't we?

I think you forget that you guys are the ones who, in obedience to God, gave us the AV 1611 Bible in the first place.

And for the record, what does your national anthem say?

 

[Dusty Bin]

I think you forget that you guys are the ones who, in obedience to God, gave us the AV 1611 Bible in the first place.

Yes in 1611, witches were still being burnt at the stake then, that's how much they knew.

And for the record, what does your national anthem say?

It's a song meant to inspire so what does it matter? are words all you care about because words can be changed as you well know, "in God we trust" comes to mind, which one day will be removed as easily as it was put on.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Sorry, no. That isn't how it works. The tides don't deposit a lot of sediment ever time they come in and out.

So a flood coming in at the speed of an average tide wouldn't pick up and deposit a lot of sediments along the way? This has been one of my points all along; little evidence of erosion/deposition. Science looks for a 'high water mark', but if the flood covered nearly all landforms there is no high water mark.

Science often reinterprets evidence. I fully expect that science will one day admit to the possibility of a global flood; a flood like I have described.