The order of fossils in the geological column

[Dusty Bin]

We don't have biblical floods anymore.

According to Christian geologists we have never had a biblical flood, in fact they stopped looking for one a long time ago.
I'm sure if you really wanted to know if we ever had a biblical flood you would find out for yourself, but you don't do you?
in fact I suspect that would be the very last thing you would want to find out, it's better just to believe.
Where ignorance is bliss it's folly to be wise, let sleeping dogs lie, better the devil you know and all that.

 

[[serious]]

So falling water say, in the amount of the Pacific and Atlantic ocean volumes would not produce heat from friction (assuming today's laws) that was significant?

To prevent the increased pressure from killing us all, let's assume a mass of water that size entering from space. We can then model that introduction of water as a meteor impact. We would get a minimum of 8.40 x 10^28 Joules of energy from the impact. Probably more. Depending how much of this heat went into the ocean vs air would determine air heating, but based on beer math, it appears to be enough to heat the atmosphere enough to kill anyone. Please note that this would not be anywhere near enough water to flood the earth.

 

[dad]

To prevent the increased pressure from killing us all, let's assume a mass of water that size entering from space. We can then model that introduction of water as a meteor impact. We would get a minimum of 8.40 x 10^28 Joules of energy from the impact. Probably more. Depending how much of this heat went into the ocean vs air would determine air heating, but based on beer math, it appears to be enough to heat the atmosphere enough to kill anyone. Please note that this would not be anywhere near enough water to flood the earth.

I know you mean either NOT to kill anyone, or to kill everyone. Which is it?


Thinking about what was probably being talked about (it was years ago on another site) it was probably heat a vapor canopy would cause.

"
Obviously, you can't get more than a tiny fraction of the flood waters from the atmosphere without running into a host of difficulties, and that includes the latent heat of vaporization, yet another fatal heat problem. It takes a fair amount of heat to boil a quart of water into vapor. Even if that quart of water slowly dries up of its own accord, it still takes the same amount of heat to turn it into vapor. In that case, the heat is gradually drawn from the surrounding environment. Step in front of a fan after getting out of the shower and you will soon appreciate just how much heat water takes with it when it turns into vapor! Well, the reverse must also be true. When vapor condenses into water, it releases the same amount of heat which originally turned it into a vapor. If that were not true we would be losing (or gaining) energy in the cycle, and the first law of thermodynamics prohibits that.
In order to condense that vapor canopy into rain, it would have to release enough heat to raise the temperature of our atmosphere to 6000 degrees! That's a straightforward calculation of the latent heat of vaporization. There is no way to convert the vapor canopy into rain in time for Noah's flood without burning up the Earth! That is to say, the sheer heat would quickly turn that rain back into vapor! You would not be able to get more than a fraction of that water from the vapor canopy until the heat slowly, in stages, dissipated into space. The key word is "slowly," given that the thick vapor canopy would act as a blanket to keep thermal radiation from escaping."


http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/hovind/howgood-add.html

So I guess there may be no heat problem for just oceans of falling water..?
http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2012/feb/24/rain-drains-energy-from-the-atmosphere

 

[[serious]]

I know you mean either NOT to kill anyone, or to kill everyone. Which is it?

Hot enough to kill everyone

Thinking about what was probably being talked about (it was years ago on another site) it was probably heat a vapor canopy would cause.

"
Obviously, you can't get more than a tiny fraction of the flood waters from the atmosphere without running into a host of difficulties, and that includes the latent heat of vaporization, yet another fatal heat problem. It takes a fair amount of heat to boil a quart of water into vapor. Even if that quart of water slowly dries up of its own accord, it still takes the same amount of heat to turn it into vapor. In that case, the heat is gradually drawn from the surrounding environment. Step in front of a fan after getting out of the shower and you will soon appreciate just how much heat water takes with it when it turns into vapor! Well, the reverse must also be true. When vapor condenses into water, it releases the same amount of heat which originally turned it into a vapor. If that were not true we would be losing (or gaining) energy in the cycle, and the first law of thermodynamics prohibits that.
In order to condense that vapor canopy into rain, it would have to release enough heat to raise the temperature of our atmosphere to 6000 degrees! That's a straightforward calculation of the latent heat of vaporization. There is no way to convert the vapor canopy into rain in time for Noah's flood without burning up the Earth! That is to say, the sheer heat would quickly turn that rain back into vapor! You would not be able to get more than a fraction of that water from the vapor canopy until the heat slowly, in stages, dissipated into space. The key word is "slowly," given that the thick vapor canopy would act as a blanket to keep thermal radiation from escaping."


How Good are those Young-Earth Arguments: Additional Topics

So I guess there may be no heat problem for just oceans of falling water..?
http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2012/feb/24/rain-drains-energy-from-the-atmosphere

If water is entering the atmosphere from space, it's kinetic energy will be turned to heat.

Also, you apparently didn't read the article you posted. When they say the atmosphere "loses energy" they mean as heat. In fact, the caption on the first picture before the article even starts is, "Falling rain heats the atmosphere more than expected." The first paragraph again says, "the energy lost as heat by falling liquid water and ice particles is on par with the energy that the wind loses to friction"

 

[EternalDragon]

According to Christian geologists we have never had a biblical flood, in fact they stopped looking for one a long time ago.
I'm sure if you really wanted to know if we ever had a biblical flood you would find out for yourself, but you don't do you?
in fact I suspect that would be the very last thing you would want to find out, it's better just to believe.
Where ignorance is bliss it's folly to be wise, let sleeping dogs lie, better the devil you know and all that.

Can you find something to back up that claim? Like a link, please? I'd like to read it.

By the way, I think those "Christian Geologists" missed all the dead things buried in sediment all over the earth.....

 

[OldWiseGuy]

According to Christian geologists we have never had a biblical flood, in fact they stopped looking for one a long time ago.

Every geologist, Christian or not, has always looked for the wrong flood, a flood that didn't happen. That's why they gave up looking.

I'm sure if you really wanted to know if we ever had a biblical flood you would find out for yourself, but you don't do you?

You mean trust that science has determined that there was no flood, don't you?

in fact I suspect that would be the very last thing you would want to find out, it's better just to believe.

Once again, read my posts. They contain a wealth of material details supporting my flood model.

Where ignorance is bliss it's folly to be wise, let sleeping dogs lie, better the devil you know and all that.

Wrong again. I'm turning over every rock in order to learn how the flood might have occurred.

Why is it so important for you and others to convince me that the flood didn't happen. Are you trying to save me from something?

 

[bhsmte]

Every geologist, Christian or not, has always looked for the wrong flood, a flood that didn't happen. That's why they gave up looking.



You mean trust that science has determined that there was no flood, don't you?



Once again, read my posts. They contain a wealth of material details supporting my flood model.




Wrong again. I'm turning over every rock in order to learn how the flood might have occurred.

Why is it so important for you and others to convince me that the flood didn't happen. Are you trying to save me from something?

Any old type of flood will show up in a geological investigation old wise guy. Saying they were looking for the wrong type of flood, just doesn't get it done.

 

[lasthero]

By the way, I think those "Christian Geologists" missed all the dead things buried in sediment all over the earth.....

No, they didn't miss them. They discovered them. They knew about them. They were well aware. That was part of the problem - the order they found them didn't match up to the Biblical account.

 

[bhsmte]

Every geologist, Christian or not, has always looked for the wrong flood, a flood that didn't happen. That's why they gave up looking.



You mean trust that science has determined that there was no flood, don't you?



Once again, read my posts. They contain a wealth of material details supporting my flood model.




Wrong again. I'm turning over every rock in order to learn how the flood might have occurred.

Why is it so important for you and others to convince me that the flood didn't happen. Are you trying to save me from something?

Here are Christian Geologists.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...=RpUyb1ETyCC0pnIgjvoOjQ&bvm=bv.65788261,d.aWc

 

[EternalDragon]

No, they didn't miss them. They discovered them. They knew about them. They were well aware. That was part of the problem - the order they found them didn't match up to the Biblical account.

95% of fossils are found out of order.

 

[lasthero]

95% of fossils are found out of order.

87% of all statistics are made up.

Citation, please. And please don't tell me you're once again misunderstanding the geologic column and how stratigraphy works.

 

[EternalDragon]

87% of all statistics are made up.

Citation, please. And please don't tell me you're once again misunderstanding the geologic column and how stratigraphy works.

Are 95% of all fossils shallow marine organisms, such as corals and shellfish? Or not?

About 1-5% are actually scattered bones of dinosaurs and other larger animals. Many are from the ice age after the flood. Basically 5% of the remaining 5% of fossils are amphibian, reptile, bird and mammal fossils. (.25%)

 

[lasthero]

Are 95% of all fossils shallow marine organisms, such as corals and shellfish? Or not?

Yes. And you don't think that's in order?

About 1-5% are actually scattered bones of dinosaurs and other larger animals.

Yes, and they're in order, too. We never find giant sloths and tyrannosaurs in the same layers, for instance. We never find pterosaurs and modern birds in the same layers. We never find plesiosaurs and marine mammals in the same layers.

Many are from the ice age after the flood.

We're still in an ice age, and you've never demonstrated that it started after the flood. You've really never demonstrated there was a flood in the first place.

 

[EternalDragon]

Yes. And you don't think that's in order?

Nope. they are found everywhere and in among dinosaur and mammal fossils.

Yes, and they're in order, too. We never find giant sloths and tyrannosaurs in the same layers, for instance. We never find pterosaurs and modern birds in the same layers. We never find plesiosaurs and marine mammals in the same layers.

Different environments, different zones, different burials.

We're still in an ice age, and you've never demonstrated that it started after the flood. You've really never demonstrated there was a flood in the first place.

We are still in "the" ice age.

If Genesis 6 and the evidence in the fossil record isn't enough demonstration for you, then I don't know what would be.

 

[lasthero]

Nope. they are found everywhere and in among dinosaur and mammal fossils.

Not all of them, no. Certain fish and marine organisms only appear in certain levels of strata.

Different environments, different zones, different burials.

No, that doesn't work. Dinosaurs fossils have been found on every continent, in every environment you could care to name.

Dinosaur Fossil Locations - EnchantedLearning.com

Even Antarctica. If all these animals lived in the same time, there's no reason that we wouldn't, at least on occasion, find them mixed together. We don't.

We are still in "the" ice age.

No, 'an'. There have been multiple ice ages on this planet, and the evidence shows that they're a process that happens and takes longer than 6,000 years.

If Genesis 6 and the evidence in the fossil record isn't enough demonstration for you

The Bible says absolutely nothing about the flood causing an ice age. You're just making it up.

 

[lasthero]

Nope. they are found everywhere and in among dinosaur and mammal fossils.

Not all of them, no. Certain fish and marine organisms only appear in certain levels of strata.

Different environments, different zones, different burials.

No, that doesn't work. Dinosaurs fossils have been found on every continent, in every environment you could care to name.

Dinosaur Fossil Locations - EnchantedLearning.com

Even Antarctica. If all these animals lived in the same time, there's no reason that we wouldn't, at least on occasion, find them mixed together. We don't.

We are still in "the" ice age.

No, 'an'. There have been multiple ice ages on this planet, and the evidence shows that they're a process that happens and takes longer than 6,000 years.

If Genesis 6 and the evidence in the fossil record isn't enough demonstration for you

The Bible says absolutely nothing about the flood causing an ice age. You're just making it up.

 

[AV1611VET]

The Bible says absolutely nothing about the flood causing an ice age. You're just making it up.

Did he make up the Water Canopy theory; which explains this nicely?

 

[lasthero]

Did he make up the Water Canopy theory; which explains this nicely?

I'm sorry, do you have anything relevant to say?

 

[AV1611VET]

I'm sorry, do you have anything relevant to say?

Ya, I do.

According to the Water Canopy theory, a water canopy distributed the rays of the sun around the earth uniformly, making the earth a tropical paradise.

When the Flood occurred, God broke the water canopy apart and it rained down on the earth.

Without this water canopy, polar climatology took over.

 

[lasthero]

Ya, I do.

According to the Water Canopy theory, a water canopy distributed the rays of the sun around the earth uniformly, making the earth a tropical paradise.

When the Flood occurred, God broke the water canopy apart and it rained down on the earth.

Without this water canopy, polar climatology took over.

Cool story, bro.