The only fruit I refuse to eat.

[Skye1300]

So if eggs are healthy, but will later on grow into an organism that you claim is unhealthy to eat - eating eggs before they become unhealthy is somehow unhealthy? I mean, eggs are either healthy or unhealthy regardless of what they would later become. Unfertilized eggs will never grow into an organism that you would qualify as meat. So, unfertilized eggs are then not meat. Make sense?

Eggs are not healthy either. All animal products are unhealthy. If it came from an animal's body or is a part of an animal's body, it's not healthy to eat.

 

[Xavier363]

Eggs are not healthy either. All animal products are unhealthy. If it came from an animal's body or is a part of an animal's body, it's not healthy to eat.

You say eggs are not healthy. I did a quick search and that is not what I found:
Are eggs good for you or not?
Top 10 Health Benefits of Eating Eggs
Are eggs good or bad for you? The truth may be somewhere in between | CNN
https://www.consumerreports.org/eggs/are-eggs-good-for-you/

If you are going to make the claim that:

All animal products are unhealthy. If it came from an animal's body or is a part of an animal's body, it's not healthy to eat.

You are going to have to back that up with facts.

Humans are omnivores and we get nutrients, vitamins, etc from a varied diet. That includes meat.
Regarding eggs, I found this instructive:
Are Eggs Considered Meat?
Are Eggs Meat? Answers To All Of Your Egg Questions! - On The Gas | The Art Science & Culture of Food

 

[Skye1300]

You say eggs are not healthy. I did a quick search and that is not what I found:
Are eggs good for you or not?
Top 10 Health Benefits of Eating Eggs
Are eggs good or bad for you? The truth may be somewhere in between | CNN
https://www.consumerreports.org/eggs/are-eggs-good-for-you/

If you are going to make the claim that:

You are going to have to back that up with facts.

Humans are omnivores and we get nutrients, vitamins, etc from a varied diet. That includes meat.
Regarding eggs, I found this instructive:
Are Eggs Considered Meat?
Are Eggs Meat? Answers To All Of Your Egg Questions! - On The Gas | The Art Science & Culture of Food

Well the CNN link summed it up best:

"If someone replaces eggs with doughnuts, other refined starches and sugar or saturated fats, I'd rather they eat eggs," Willett said.
"But for someone who really wants to be in optimal health. Putting the emphasis on plant-based protein sources like steel-cut oatmeal and nuts would be a better way to go."

And yes humans are omnivores NOW, that doesn't mean we were created to be omnivores and it doesn't mean an omnivore diet is the best diet for humans. Our bodies adapted over time to get nutrients from animal products because of mankind eating animal products. Gut bacteria will adapt to what you feed it. People start feeding babies animal products from birth, and even before birth from what the mother eats so the body adapts. Just because a person can eat it and digest it and get nutrients from it doesn't mean it's the best diet for you or that man was created to eat meat. Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you should.

No eggs are not technically meat, but they are animal products which is just as bad.

Why are eggs bad for you & why should you not eat them? | NutritionFacts.org

Why Should You Not Eat Eggs?

Cholesterol and Heart Disease
A single egg has 207 milligrams of cholesterol on average. After a meal that includes eggs, triglycerides and blood cholesterol shoots up. It’s no wonder the Dietary Guidelines of Americans mirrors the National Academies of Science recommendation to consume as little cholesterol as possible.

Diabetes
Eating just a single egg a week appeared to increase the odds of diabetes by 76%. Two eggs a week appeared to double the odds, and just a single egg a day tripled the odds. Once we then have diabetes, eggs may hasten our death. Eating one egg a day or more appears to shorten anyone’s lifespan, but may double the all-cause mortality for those with diabetes.

Cancer
Egg consumption has been associated with some cancers, including that of the prostate, bladder, and breast. Eggs are high in choline. Choline is converted in the gut into trimethylamine, which, after being oxidized by our liver, may promote inflammation and result in cancer progression.

 

[Skye1300]

 

[Hans Blaster]

And yes humans are omnivores NOW, that doesn't mean we were created to be omnivores and it doesn't mean an omnivore diet is the best diet for humans.

No. Humans evolved to be omnivores. Our diet has always contained animal products (meat, eggs, shellfish, insects, etc.). The modern diet of wealthy countries often includes excessive amounts of meat, but it has always been part of our diet.

 

[Skye1300]

7 Ways Animal Protein is Damaging Your Health | Forks Over Knives

Forget the meat! Why an animal-based diet is hazardous to your health
Slowly the truth is emerging that diet is decisive to health. Out of a fog of deliberate confusion and fierce resistance put up by the food and pharmaceutical industries and their allies in government, academia and big medicine, the idea is winning support in the public mind, and a fundamentally new picture is becoming clear. That picture is that a diet centered on animal products — meat, dairy and eggs — is actually toxic and promotes all the main chronic diseases — cardiovascular, cancer, diabetes, obesity and autoimmune — that cause death in the United States and other industrialized countries.

 

[Skye1300]

No. Humans evolved to be omnivores. Our diet has always contained animal products (meat, eggs, shellfish, insects, etc.). The modern diet of wealthy countries often includes excessive amounts of meat, but it has always been part of our diet.

Yes, ever since the fall. But that's not how God created us. Sin has always existed too since Adam & Eve but that's not how God created us.

 

[RDKirk]

And yes humans are omnivores NOW, that doesn't mean we were created to be omnivores and it doesn't mean an omnivore diet is the best diet for humans. Our bodies adapted over time to get nutrients from animal products because of mankind eating animal products.

Actually, yes, that does mean an omnivorous diet is the best diet for humans.

Absolutely no society on earth is or ever has been a purely vegan society. None. Not ever. Homo sapiens has been a hunter as far back as we can determine homo sapiens has existed.

Every society has been at least lacto-ovo vegetarian. That didn't happen by accident. Animals would have been much harder to hunt than merely grazing. Yet even the most primitive societies go through a great deal of trouble to include as much animal protein in their diets as possible. If surviving as herbivores had ever been possible, most societies would never have just spontaneously decided to hunt...why would they, if the meat did them no good?

Why would ancient Aleuts go out into deep icy waters with sharp sticks in kayaks to hunt whales risking death, if they could have lived happily chewing lichens off the tundra?

For that matter, so do most apes. Even chimpanzees eat animal protein. Moreover, you're displaying long-defunct Lamarckian concepts of evolution to suggest that man adapted just by doing. That theory was debunked a century ago.

Gut bacteria will adapt to what you feed it.

You just contradicted your argument.

People start feeding babies animal products from birth, and even before birth from what the mother eats so the body adapts.

Back to Lamarckianism. No, the baby does not become an omnivore from diet. The baby is destined to be an omnivore from DNA.

[/quote] Just because a person can eat it and digest it and get nutrients from it doesn't mean it's the best diet for you or that man was created to eat meat. [/quote]

Man changed after the Fall, and certainly after the Deluge, which is why God explicitly gave Man animals to eat and later explicit instructions how to eat them

Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you should.

The word "should" implies a moral imperative...so you're not really talking health--a point you haven't proven--you're talking ethics.

But whose ethics? Certainly not the ethics of Jesus, because He ate animal protein.

 

[RDKirk]

Yes, ever since the fall. But that's not how God created us. Sin has always existed too since Adam & Eve but that's not how God created us.

So, at best, we will be able to go back to the Adam and Even diet when the Lord returns us to the incorruptible bodies that Adam and Eve originally had.

Trying to achieve incorruptibility by our own methods is like trying to build that tower to Heaven.

 

[Skye1300]

So, at best, we will be able to go back to the Adam and Even diet when the Lord returns us to the incorruptible bodies that Adam and Eve originally had.

Trying to achieve incorruptibility by our own methods is like trying to build that tower to Heaven.

Yes, when Jesus returns we will go back to the diet we were created to eat. True.
It's true we can't achieve incorruptibility ourself. I agree. Avoiding meat now won't make us incurruptable as we were in the beginning, but it could improve our health, ease our suffering and improve our quality of life as well as extend our life or not shorten it. It's like how there will never be peace on earth till Jesus returns, but we still have laws and punish people who break laws to improve the quality of life on earth as much as possible till Jesus returns.

 

[Xavier363]

Well the CNN link summed it up best:

"If someone replaces eggs with doughnuts, other refined starches and sugar or saturated fats, I'd rather they eat eggs," Willett said.
"But for someone who really wants to be in optimal health. Putting the emphasis on plant-based protein sources like steel-cut oatmeal and nuts would be a better way to go."

And yes humans are omnivores NOW, that doesn't mean we were created to be omnivores and it doesn't mean an omnivore diet is the best diet for humans. Our bodies adapted over time to get nutrients from animal products because of mankind eating animal products. Gut bacteria will adapt to what you feed it. People start feeding babies animal products from birth, and even before birth from what the mother eats so the body adapts. Just because a person can eat it and digest it and get nutrients from it doesn't mean it's the best diet for you or that man was created to eat meat. Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you should.

No eggs are not technically meat, but they are animal products which is just as bad.

Why are eggs bad for you & why should you not eat them? | NutritionFacts.org

Why Should You Not Eat Eggs?

Cholesterol and Heart Disease
A single egg has 207 milligrams of cholesterol on average. After a meal that includes eggs, triglycerides and blood cholesterol shoots up. It’s no wonder the Dietary Guidelines of Americans mirrors the National Academies of Science recommendation to consume as little cholesterol as possible.

Diabetes
Eating just a single egg a week appeared to increase the odds of diabetes by 76%. Two eggs a week appeared to double the odds, and just a single egg a day tripled the odds. Once we then have diabetes, eggs may hasten our death. Eating one egg a day or more appears to shorten anyone’s lifespan, but may double the all-cause mortality for those with diabetes.

Cancer
Egg consumption has been associated with some cancers, including that of the prostate, bladder, and breast. Eggs are high in choline. Choline is converted in the gut into trimethylamine, which, after being oxidized by our liver, may promote inflammation and result in cancer progression.

So:

No eggs are not technically meat, but they are animal products which is just as bad.

is just not true. It is your opinion. You are entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts.

This:

"If someone replaces eggs with doughnuts, other refined starches and sugar or saturated fats, I'd rather they eat eggs," Willett said.

I mean, I could have told you that. I don't see a point here. If someone replaces eggs with heroin, I'd rather they eat eggs. That was easy.

And yes humans are omnivores NOW, that doesn't mean we were created to be omnivores and it doesn't mean an omnivore diet is the best diet for humans. Our bodies adapted over time to get nutrients from animal products because of mankind eating animal products.

I'm not a biologist (quick question: are you?) but I wonder if you can point to any evidence that shows that humans have never been omnivores?
On that note, I found this instructive:
For Most Of Human History, Being An Omnivore Was No Dilemma

Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you should.

No, of course just because you CAN do something, does not mean that you SHOULD do something. But if you CAN do something it also does not mean that you SHOULD NOT do something. I CAN eat food to stay alive. I CAN NOT eat food if I choose not to eat. There is no SHOULD here.

I feel like your claims about the health aspects of eating meat (or any animal products if you like) are secondary to your beliefs regarding their consumption. As an example: For now, ignoring climate chage. Lets say I eat a healthy diet of which meat (animal products) is a portion. I live a good life, free of health problems. I die at an age western medicine would consider it of "natural causes". Any problems with that?

 

[Xavier363]

7 Ways Animal Protein is Damaging Your Health | Forks Over Knives

Forget the meat! Why an animal-based diet is hazardous to your health
Slowly the truth is emerging that diet is decisive to health. Out of a fog of deliberate confusion and fierce resistance put up by the food and pharmaceutical industries and their allies in government, academia and big medicine, the idea is winning support in the public mind, and a fundamentally new picture is becoming clear. That picture is that a diet centered on animal products — meat, dairy and eggs — is actually toxic and promotes all the main chronic diseases — cardiovascular, cancer, diabetes, obesity and autoimmune — that cause death in the United States and other industrialized countries.

Did a quick search on the China Study debunked:
The China Study Revisited: New Analysis of Raw Data Doesn’t Support Vegetarian Ideology
So, just saying...

 

[Skye1300]

So:

is just not true. It is your opinion. You are entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts.

This:

I mean, I could have told you that. I don't see a point here. If someone replaces eggs with heroin, I'd rather they eat eggs. That was easy.


I'm not a biologist (quick question: are you?) but I wonder if you can point to any evidence that shows that humans have never been omnivores?
On that note, I found this instructive:
For Most Of Human History, Being An Omnivore Was No Dilemma


No, of course just because you CAN do something, does not mean that you SHOULD do something. But if you CAN do something it also does not mean that you SHOULD NOT do something. I CAN eat food to stay alive. I CAN NOT eat food if I choose not to eat. There is no SHOULD here.

I feel like your claims about the health aspects of eating meat (or any animal products if you like) are secondary to your beliefs regarding their consumption. As an example: For now, ignoring climate chage. Lets say I eat a healthy diet of which meat (animal products) is a portion. I live a good life, free of health problems. I die at an age western medicine would consider it of "natural causes". Any problems with that?

There are other deeper issues that concerns me about eating meat. Meat being unhealthy is one of them.

 

[Xavier363]

There are other deeper issues that concerns me about eating meat. Meat being unhealthy is one of them.

Thanks for the clarification. So you are not saying that eating meat is unhealthy, its just that - to you - there are deeper issues that bother you? And I'm OK with that. As I said, you are entitled to your own opinion, you are not entitled to your own facts.

 

[BNR32FAN]

So:
Get two birds. Kill one. Dip the live bird in the blood of the dead one. Sprinkle the blood on the leper seven times, and then let the blood-soaked bird fly away. Next find a lamb and kill it. Wipe some of its blood on the patient’s right ear, thumb, and big toe. Sprinkle seven times with oil and wipe some of the oil on his right ear, thumb and big toe. Repeat. Finally find another pair of birds. Kill one and dip the live bird in the dead bird’s blood. Wipe some blood on the patient’s right ear, thumb, and big toe. Sprinkle the house with blood 7 times.
- Leviticus 14:2-52

You think that the procedure above could have been effective sometime in the past to cure anything? And it seems like you are leaving the door open to the possibility of it still being effective today? I don't want to misrepresent your position, so I just have to ask for confirmation.

Yes I do believe that method did cure people in the past. I don’t know if it still works today.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Yes I do believe that method did cure people in the past. I don’t know if it still works today.

Well, if anyone bothered to read the verses, it was not a cure, it was a cleansing / purifying ritual to reenter society. It even says that the person should be examined to be sure they are free of leprosy before beginning.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Well, if anyone bothered to read the verses, it was not a cure, it was a cleansing / purifying ritual to reenter society. It even says that the person should be examined to be sure they are free of leprosy before beginning.

Yeah your right. I read that hastily while I was at work and I’m embarrassed to say that I absolutely missed that right there in verses 2-3. Good point my friend thanks for clarifying.

 

[keith99]

Apple imagery is used in a positive sense in the Song of Songs. We don't know what the fruit in Eden was, but there's good reason to think it probably wasn't any fruit we know today.

According to Twain we can be sure the fruit was NOT a true Southern watermelon. Other than that I have never heard anything that holds water about what fruit is may or may not have been.

 

[Xavier363]

Yes I do believe that method did cure people in the past. I don’t know if it still works today.

So, the bible verse that I referenced, - Leviticus 14:2-52 you believed cured people. You believed it until:

Well, if anyone bothered to read the verses, it was not a cure, it was a cleansing / purifying ritual to reenter society. It even says that the person should be examined to be sure they are free of leprosy before beginning.

You believed that killing birds and dipping one into an other's blood and spraying it around, etc was a valid cure for some ailment. I'm sure that made you super uncomfortable. Then you were thrown a biblical lifeline about a cleansing ritual. That gave you an "out" and you clutched at this straw.

So, what is it? You believe the, kill one bird, dip the live bird into the dead bird's blood story actually cured something? Or you now believe that Leviticus 14:2-52 is an irrelevant "cleansing ritual". You were pretty sure about your position about it curing people in the past. Now you are not sure?

I wonder about other things you believe the bible says. Until someone else tells you what the bible says.

 

[BNR32FAN]

So, the bible verse that I referenced, - Leviticus 14:2-52 you believed cured people. You believed it until:


You believed that killing birds and dipping one into an other's blood and spraying it around, etc was a valid cure for some ailment. I'm sure that made you super uncomfortable. Then you were thrown a biblical lifeline about a cleansing ritual. That gave you an "out" and you clutched at this straw.

So, what is it? You believe the, kill one bird, dip the live bird into the dead bird's blood story actually cured something? Or you now believe that Leviticus 14:2-52 is an irrelevant "cleansing ritual". You were pretty sure about your position about it curing people in the past. Now you are not sure?

I wonder about other things you believe the bible says. Until someone else tells you what the bible says.

I believe every word written in the Bible. I was shown that I misread it so naturally after reading it correctly I saw my error and acknowledged it. Would you rather that I had just ignored it and pretended it never happened?