The only fruit I refuse to eat.

[BNR32FAN]

Sigh, so you are a 100% believer in the bible - that is sad to me. So, 100% what were the last words of Jesus? The 100% last words. The 100% not to be disputed, super duper literal last words of Jesus?

Well His last recorded words were

““I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.””
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22:16‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

 

[BNR32FAN]

Seems like there was a problem when you quoted. Perhaps you could try again? What were you referring to as myths, and what were you referring to as fact? That would be helpful

These are facts

The bible also says Jesus cured a blind man by spitting on the ground, scooping up the moist clay, and rubbing it into the blind man's eyes.

Also to cure leprosy:
Get two birds. Kill one. Dip the live bird in the blood of the dead one. Sprinkle the blood on the leper seven times, and then let the blood-soaked bird fly away. Next find a lamb and kill it. Wipe some of its blood on the patient’s right ear, thumb, and big toe. Sprinkle seven times with oil and wipe some of the oil on his right ear, thumb and big toe. Repeat. Finally find another pair of birds. Kill one and dip the live bird in the dead bird’s blood. Wipe some blood on the patient’s right ear, thumb, and big toe. Sprinkle the house with blood 7 times.
- Leviticus 14:2-52

Myths are in reference to pagan beliefs

 

[BNR32FAN]

Sigh, so you are a 100% believer in the bible - that is sad to me.

And your an unbeliever which is sad to me but what’s more important is in the end you won’t be sad for me, and I truly hope that I’m not sad for you because I hope by then you will believe the truth. Nobody is born a believer my friend theres still hope for you. God will always accept you if you humble yourself to Him and believe. Just keep that in mind if your ever in a situation where it seems that all hope is lost.

 

[Xavier363]

I believe all of creation was created in 6 days and the earth is just over 6,000 years old.

Edit: Sorry everything is just over 6,000 years old.

And, all the different fields of science dispute this claim. Best number seems to be 4.7 Billion years. Making the 6000 year estimate wrong by 1 in about 78,000.

 

[Xavier363]

And your an unbeliever which is sad to me but what’s more important is in the end you won’t be sad for me, and I truly hope that I’m not sad for you because I hope by then you will believe the truth. Nobody is born a believer my friend theres still hope for you. God will always accept you if you humble yourself to Him and believe. Just keep that in mind if your ever in a situation where it seems that all hope is lost.

Yes, I am an unbeliever. Just as you were an unbeliever when you were born. I want to believe as many true things as possible and as few false things as possible. That is why I demand evidence before I believe things. Would you like me to demonstrate that I'm more powerful than the christian god? I mean, you believe in this god - I don't, but this demonstration might be fun...

 

[BNR32FAN]

And, all the different fields of science dispute this claim. Best number seems to be 4.7 Billion years. Making the 6000 year estimate wrong by 1 in about 78,000.

Not necessarily, your assuming that scientists are right. I don’t think they have enough information to make an accurate prediction. No one knows how old the universe appeared to be the day it was created. Perhaps God used natural occurrences but sped up the process in order to complete it in one day.

 

[BNR32FAN]

And, all the different fields of science dispute this claim. Best number seems to be 4.7 Billion years. Making the 6000 year estimate wrong by 1 in about 78,000.

They also believe that man as we are today has existed for 300,000 years yet man just invented the wheel 5,500 years ago. So for 294,500 years man couldn’t invent something as simple as a wheel then in the next 7,000 years accomplished space travel and all the technology we have today. 98% of man’s existence he couldn’t figure out something as trivial as a wheel then in the last 1.8% of his existence he figured out all the technology we have today. That seems disproportionate to me. A wheel is something that can easily be observed in a natural environment by a rock or log rolling down a hill. Seems strange that man would see these occurrences and not come to the idea of creating a wheel in 294,000 years yet in the next 7,000 years he would accomplish more than he could possibly imagine.

 

[Xavier363]

Not necessarily, your assuming that scientists are right. I don’t think they have enough information to make an accurate prediction. No one knows how old the universe appeared to be the day it was created. Perhaps God used natural occurrences but sped up the process in order to complete it in one day.

Yes, of course I'm assuming that science is "right". We are communicating, right now, using many of the fruits of science. You say that you don't think that scientist have enough information to make an accurate prediction - good thing that you opinion is irrelevant. In the spirit of your irrelevant opinion of science, I don't think any god used natural occurrences and sped up the process in order to complete the universe in one day. If only there was some kind of method to determine which of us is correct...

 

[Skye1300]

Nope, a link to a news article (I've not heard of Sutter Health before - but that does not mean it is illegitimate) is not good enough. Please provide a link to an actual scientific study.

You stated that "Meat is the only food that affects the body negatively leading to illness and death." There are many non-meat things that people can eat that will lead to illness and death. Poisonous mushrooms, frogs, bacteria, etc.

So, please clarify. Are you saying that eating meat is unhealthy, or is sinful?


Are you concerned about health, or about sin?

I noticed that you didn't address my questions regarding original sin:


I get that there is a net negative effect for the planet, raising animals for red meat. The amount of land, water, and grains that it takes to produce that meat could be better used for other purposes. I get that. But to state that eating meat is the "only" food that affects the body negatively leading to illness and death - that is just a flat out lie. A sin in your belief system.

Okay as far as a link to a study, you can watch the movie/documentary called The Game Changers. It includes scientific studies and tests and testimony of doctors as well as a live test on 3 young healthy athletes after eating a meal with meat verses eating a meal without meat. It's on Netflix.

Even Daniel in the Bible knew the difference: Daniel 1:
5 And the king appointed them a daily provision, of his own meat, and of the wine of which he drank himself, that being nourished three years, afterwards they might stand before the king.
8 But Daniel purposed in his heart that he would not be defiled with the king's meat, nor with the wine which he drank: and he requested the master of the eunuchs that he might not be defiled.
10 And the prince of the eunuchs said to Daniel: I fear my lord the king, who hath appointed you meat and drink: who if he should see your faces leaner than those of the other youths your equals, you shall endanger my head to the king.
11 And Daniel said to Malasar, whom the prince of the eunuchs had appointed over Daniel, Ananias, Misael, and Azarias:
12 Try, I beseech thee, thy servants for ten days, and let vegetables and legumes be given us to eat, and water to drink:
13 And look upon our faces, and the faces of the children that eat of the king's meat: and as thou shalt see, deal with thy servants.
14 And when he had heard these words, he tried them for ten days.
15 And after ten days their faces appeared fairer and healthier than all the children that ate of the king's meat.
16 So Malasar took their portions, and the wine that they should drink: and he gave them vegetables and legumes.
17 And to these children God gave knowledge, and understanding in every book, and wisdom: but to Daniel the understanding also of all visions and dreams.
18 And when the days were ended, after which the king had ordered they should be brought in: the prince of the eunuchs brought them in before Nabuchodonosor.
19 And when the king had spoken to them, there were not found among them all such as Daniel, Ananias, Misael, and Azarias: and they stood in the king's presence.
20 And in all matters of wisdom and understanding, that the king inquired of them, he found them ten times better than all the diviners, and wise men, that were in all his kingdom.

I'm not saying eating meat is a sin, I'm saying it was originally the forbidden fruit and that it is unhealthy. You can go to heaven if you eat meat, but meat is still unhealthy for your body. Meat is not God's perfect will for us to consume but eating it won't send a person to hell. The original sin was DISOBEDIENCE and God forbade meat because it was unhealthy. But Adam & Eve's disobedience is what caused the fall. But meat still continues to be unhealthy.

 

[Skye1300]

Nope, a link to a news article (I've not heard of Sutter Health before - but that does not mean it is illegitimate) is not good enough. Please provide a link to an actual scientific study.

You stated that "Meat is the only food that affects the body negatively leading to illness and death." There are many non-meat things that people can eat that will lead to illness and death. Poisonous mushrooms, frogs, bacteria, etc.

So, please clarify. Are you saying that eating meat is unhealthy, or is sinful?


Are you concerned about health, or about sin?

I noticed that you didn't address my questions regarding original sin:


I get that there is a net negative effect for the planet, raising animals for red meat. The amount of land, water, and grains that it takes to produce that meat could be better used for other purposes. I get that. But to state that eating meat is the "only" food that affects the body negatively leading to illness and death - that is just a flat out lie. A sin in your belief system.

I know you asked me somewhere about what is meat. Meat is anything that didn't grow from the ground. Anything with a brain and breathes.

 

[Skye1300]

Question: Do you believe Jesus was sinning when He, after the resurrection, showed Himself to His followers out on the water, helped them catch fish, then cooked and ate it with them on the shore?

How about when Jesus took the loaves and fishes and fed the five thousand? How about every time Jesus celebrated the Passover?

It's perfectly fine if you want to avoid meat out of conscience. But you certainly don't have any right to judge those who do (Romans 14:1-4).

-CryptoLutheran

No, of course Jesus wasn't sinning. Eating meat is not a sin. The original sin was disobedience. Meat is just unhealthy. But of course Jesus did not have to worry about eating the fish since He can walk on water and cure the sick and turn water to wine etc.

 

[Xavier363]

I know you asked me somewhere about what is meat. Meat is anything that didn't grow from the ground. Anything with a brain and breathes.

So, eggs?

 

[Xavier363]

Okay as far as a link to a study, you can watch the movie/documentary called The Game Changers. It includes scientific studies and tests and testimony of doctors as well as a live test on 3 young healthy athletes after eating a meal with meat verses eating a meal without meat. It's on Netflix.

Even Daniel in the Bible knew the difference: Daniel 1:
5 And the king appointed them a daily provision, of his own meat, and of the wine of which he drank himself, that being nourished three years, afterwards they might stand before the king.
8 But Daniel purposed in his heart that he would not be defiled with the king's meat, nor with the wine which he drank: and he requested the master of the eunuchs that he might not be defiled.
10 And the prince of the eunuchs said to Daniel: I fear my lord the king, who hath appointed you meat and drink: who if he should see your faces leaner than those of the other youths your equals, you shall endanger my head to the king.
11 And Daniel said to Malasar, whom the prince of the eunuchs had appointed over Daniel, Ananias, Misael, and Azarias:
12 Try, I beseech thee, thy servants for ten days, and let vegetables and legumes be given us to eat, and water to drink:
13 And look upon our faces, and the faces of the children that eat of the king's meat: and as thou shalt see, deal with thy servants.
14 And when he had heard these words, he tried them for ten days.
15 And after ten days their faces appeared fairer and healthier than all the children that ate of the king's meat.
16 So Malasar took their portions, and the wine that they should drink: and he gave them vegetables and legumes.
17 And to these children God gave knowledge, and understanding in every book, and wisdom: but to Daniel the understanding also of all visions and dreams.
18 And when the days were ended, after which the king had ordered they should be brought in: the prince of the eunuchs brought them in before Nabuchodonosor.
19 And when the king had spoken to them, there were not found among them all such as Daniel, Ananias, Misael, and Azarias: and they stood in the king's presence.
20 And in all matters of wisdom and understanding, that the king inquired of them, he found them ten times better than all the diviners, and wise men, that were in all his kingdom.

I'm not saying eating meat is a sin, I'm saying it was originally the forbidden fruit and that it is unhealthy. You can go to heaven if you eat meat, but meat is still unhealthy for your body. Meat is not God's perfect will for us to consume but eating it won't send a person to hell. The original sin was DISOBEDIENCE and God forbade meat because it was unhealthy. But Adam & Eve's disobedience is what caused the fall. But meat still continues to be unhealthy.

Seems to me that if eating meat is not a sin - and it is super duper delicious - I should eat as much as possible so that I can die as soon as possible and be with the lord. That make sense?

 

[Skye1300]

So, eggs?

I consider eggs as meat because it comes from animals will grow to be an animal.

 

[Skye1300]

Seems to me that if eating meat is not a sin - and it is super duper delicious - I should eat as much as possible so that I can die as soon as possible and be with the lord. That make sense?

LOL Not to me.

 

[Monowhite]

I must apologise for my absence from this thread.
I have been tending to matters elsewhere.
Now that I am back and trying to catch up, I see some of you have perhaps taken the thread into a more light-hearted, jovial angle of 'meat trees' and such. But all the same I'd like to get back on topic.

I'm still quite happy to be totally and proudly averse to apples. I have never eaten figs and I don't intend to. Nor do I dabble with anything beyond the average western roaming convenience diet.

““I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.””
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22:16‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

I'll catch up. But this is a lovely quote. Very encouraging.

As for the meat issue, it's given me plenty to think about, or as you guys say, food for thought.

 

[Monowhite]

I will try and respond to everyone who has quoted or responded to me, now that I'm back in the realms of online rhetoric.
I have a lot of catching up to do.
I think I have perhaps spent too many days outdoors.

 

[RDKirk]

Plus, fruit doesn't have to be literally fruit, there's fruit of the womb and fruit of your labor etc.

But fruit does have to be a direct, substantive derivative, not merely a circumstantial coincidence.

 

[RDKirk]

Okay here's an article and there are many more:

America is a nation of meat eaters, with the average person consuming about 100 pounds of red meat each year, according to the United States Department of Agriculture. But numerous studies have found that consuming red meat can be dangerous to your health, causing an increased risk for heart disease, Type 2 Diabetes and multiple types of cancers.

In 2015, the World Health Organization’s International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) made headlines around the world when it announced that processed meats cause cancer. Processed meat includes bacon, salami, bologna, hot dogs, sausages, corned beef, pastrami, canned meat and ham. This category also includes any meat that has been preserved by smoking, curing, salting or adding preservatives.

The IARC group of 22 experts from 10 countries found that eating 50 grams of processed meat a day, which is less than two slices of bacon, increases the chance of developing colorectal cancer by 18 percent. Toni Brayer, M.D., an internist with the Sutter Pacific Medical Foundation, says IARC confirmed what many scientists and doctors have known for years — that processed meats are essentially carcinogenic.

“The data is as strong as it possibly can be that processed meat creates a higher incidence of cancers, particularly pancreatic, prostate, stomach and colorectal cancers,” Dr. Brayer says. “IARC also said that fresh cuts of red meat probably cause cancer, too.”

Processed meats are now listed in the same carcinogen category as alcoholic beverages, asbestos, arsenic, diesel engine exhaust and cigarettes.
Does Meat Cause Cancer? | Sutter Health

There is a constant tendency to lump "meat" with "processed meat" in every one of these studies, without exception.

That's like failing to distinguish upriver water going into a treatment plant from the water processed by the plant and saying that all water is unhealthy.

That's the kind of disingenuous failure of distinction that reveals an agenda separate from an actual health intention.

 

[RDKirk]

And I'm just saying that arguing something because the bible says so is flawed.



If the bible says you can cure leprosy by killing birds and dipping one in the blood of the other, etc - this is super obviously wrong. This means that other passages should be looked at very skeptically. I mean, its a trivial but fun point to debate what type of fruit is forbidden but in the long run, there is no reason to believe that the "garden of eden" actually existed.

Xavier363, for the sake of this argument between Christians about eating meat, just pretend for a bit that you've stumbled into a debate between Star Trek fans about why Guinan failed to recognize Picard in the year 2024, despite having earlier met him in 1890. Pretend this is a fandom debate.