The only fruit I refuse to eat.

[ViaCrucis]

They also believe that man as we are today has existed for 300,000 years yet man just invented the wheel 5,500 years ago. So for 294,500 years man couldn’t invent something as simple as a wheel then in the next 7,000 years accomplished space travel and all the technology we have today. 98% of man’s existence he couldn’t figure out something as trivial as a wheel then in the last 1.8% of his existence he figured out all the technology we have today. That seems disproportionate to me. A wheel is something that can easily be observed in a natural environment by a rock or log rolling down a hill. Seems strange that man would see these occurrences and not come to the idea of creating a wheel in 294,000 years yet in the next 7,000 years he would accomplish more than he could possibly imagine.

What use does a wheel have in ice-age hunter-gatherer societies? What is the cost-benefit of such technology for the daily needs and survival of paleolithic tribes?

Necessity is the mother of invention, as the saying goes.

The Greeks had basic steam-operated machines. Which has made some people wonder if they may have been on the verge of an industrial revolution. However, they weren't. While steam machines existed, knowledge of them existed, and it was theoretically possible for them to conceive of using steam power in more practical applications--that didn't happen and there was never a push in that direction. Steam powered machines remained little more than novelty and the work of eccentric individuals. But by the time of the industrial revolution and the invention of the steam engine applicable use was found in steam boats and steam trains.

It's not just a matter of "can", it's a matter of the right set of circumstances.

A wheel is just a waste of time, energy, and resources unless there is a clear cost-benefit for having wheels to do things. And so the wheel doesn't show up until we get to the agrarian revolution in Mesopotamia.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[RDKirk]

What use does a wheel have in ice-age hunter-gatherer societies? What is the cost-benefit of such technology for the daily needs and survival of paleolithic tribes?

Necessity is the mother of invention, as the saying goes.

The Greeks had basic steam-operated machines. Which has made some people wonder if they may have been on the verge of an industrial revolution. However, they weren't. While steam machines existed, knowledge of them existed, and it was theoretically possible for them to conceive of using steam power in more practical applications--that didn't happen and there was never a push in that direction. Steam powered machines remained little more than novelty and the work of eccentric individuals. But by the time of the industrial revolution and the invention of the steam engine applicable use was found in steam boats and steam trains.

It's not just a matter of "can", it's a matter of the right set of circumstances.

And other technological elements have to be in place at the right time. A steam engine isn't practical without long-lived wheel bearings, for instance.

 

[BNR32FAN]

What use does a wheel have in ice-age hunter-gatherer societies? What is the cost-benefit of such technology for the daily needs and survival of paleolithic tribes?

Necessity is the mother of invention, as the saying goes.

The Greeks had basic steam-operated machines. Which has made some people wonder if they may have been on the verge of an industrial revolution. However, they weren't. While steam machines existed, knowledge of them existed, and it was theoretically possible for them to conceive of using steam power in more practical applications--that didn't happen and there was never a push in that direction. Steam powered machines remained little more than novelty and the work of eccentric individuals. But by the time of the industrial revolution and the invention of the steam engine applicable use was found in steam boats and steam trains.

It's not just a matter of "can", it's a matter of the right set of circumstances.

A wheel is just a waste of time, energy, and resources unless there is a clear cost-benefit for having wheels to do things. And so the wheel doesn't show up until we get to the agrarian revolution in Mesopotamia.

-CryptoLutheran

Hunter and gatherer tribes were typically nomads which would’ve made the wheel extremely useful for moving supplies & materials not to mention transporting large game animals after a hunt. The ice age would’ve been irrelevant because man was typically confined to the southern portions of the continents because of the extreme cold in the north.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Hunter and gatherer tribes were typically nomads which would’ve made the wheel extremely useful for moving supplies & materials not to mention transporting large game animals after a hunt. The ice age would’ve been irrelevant because man was typically confined to the southern portions of the continents because of the extreme cold in the north.

Again, it's not just a matter of can, it's a matter of lots of factors. I can certainly see how wheeled carts could be very useful for transporting goods long distances because I live in a world where that's been a reality for thousands of years. But a wheeled cart is a very complex thing, it's not just having wheels, it's having spoked wheels, and also properly measuring the wheels and getting things right and working requires applied mathematics.

In other words, these things require people to have the means and resources and time and energy--in addition to as RDKirk said earlier, antecedent technology and knowledge. The agrarian revolution meant permanent settlements for human beings to establish the first villages, then towns, then cities, and finally sprawling societies. It is in this context that technological innovation occurs in the form of improving life for the agrarian people. Metalworking for tools to harvest domesticated grain, domesticating oxen and donkeys as beasts of burden, and wheels to make pottery and for treading grain, and other uses.

It was the birth of agriculture-based societies that provided the necessity for the invention of the wheel.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[BNR32FAN]

Again, it's not just a matter of can, it's a matter of lots of factors. I can certainly see how wheeled carts could be very useful for transporting goods long distances because I live in a world where that's been a reality for thousands of years. But a wheeled cart is a very complex thing, it's not just having wheels, it's having spoked wheels, and also properly measuring the wheels and getting things right and working requires applied mathematics.

Spokes aren’t necessary the first wheels were solid wood with no spokes and no mathematics is required to make a wheel. Anyone can make a perfect circle using just a stick and something to draw or paint with.

 

[Tinker Grey]

How can humanity be older than 300 years? Are you telling me it took 6000 years to invent a car?

 

[Hans Blaster]

Hunter and gatherer tribes were typically nomads which would’ve made the wheel extremely useful for moving supplies & materials not to mention transporting large game animals after a hunt. The ice age would’ve been irrelevant because man was typically confined to the southern portions of the continents because of the extreme cold in the north.

If you believe, as you seem to believe, that the Earth and humanity are only 6000 years old, exactly when was this ice age and period where most of mankind was hunter gatherers?

 

[BNR32FAN]

If you believe, as you seem to believe, that the Earth and humanity are only 6000 years old, exactly when was this ice age and period where most of mankind was hunter gatherers?

I don’t know, the Bible doesn’t mention it but scientists believe that the ice didn’t cover the entire planet only the very northern and Southern Hemispheres. Basically the arctic areas we have now were just larger but there was still a vast area of land above snd below the equator that was not frozen. From the pictures I saw it looked like even the southern states of America were not covered in ice.

 

[Hans Blaster]

I don’t know, the Bible doesn’t mention it but scientists believe that the ice didn’t cover the entire planet only the very northern and Southern Hemispheres. Basically the arctic areas we have now were just larger but there was still a vast area of land above snd below the equator that was not frozen. From the pictures I saw it looked like even the southern states of America were not covered in ice.

There are multiple ice ages (actually glacial maxima) in the geological record. This doesn't really answer the question I posed,

When, according to the YEC/biblical timeline, is this ice age and hunter-gatherer period with limited technology you speak of?

 

[Xavier363]

These are facts



Myths are in reference to pagan beliefs

But not christian beliefs? So, the cure for leprosy in the bible is true and not a myth. Interesting.

 

[Xavier363]

Well His last recorded words were

““I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.””
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22:16‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

I did a quick search:
Luke 23:34
Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing."
Luke 23:43
"I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."
John 19:26–27
"Dear woman, here is your son," and to the disciple, "Here is your mother."
Matthew 27:46
“My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?”
Psalm 69:21: "They offer me sour wine for my thirst."
John 19:30
"It is finished!"
Luke 23:46
"Father, into your hands I commit my spirit." When he had said this, he breathed his last.

I'm no bible scholar - far from it. I do know that there are different claims to the last words of Jesus. I wonder how you justify believing in the version that you quoted above? Also, you used the word "recorded" - I wonder about the identity of the person that recorded these words.

 

[Xavier363]

Xavier363, for the sake of this argument between Christians about eating meat, just pretend for a bit that you've stumbled into a debate between Star Trek fans about why Guinan failed to recognize Picard in the year 2024, despite having earlier met him in 1890. Pretend this is a fandom debate.

Hey RDKirk:
While I get what you are saying about the fan debate stuff, the problem is people don't actually think that the characters in Star Trek (I'm a Kirk guy) actually exist and don't live their lives as though they do. Pointing out some of the nonsense verses and advice in the bible will hopefully allow people to take an honest look at the advice and decide whether or not to allow bad advice to influence their lives. That is my point.

 

[Xavier363]

I consider eggs as meat because it comes from animals will grow to be an animal.

So if eggs are healthy, but will later on grow into an organism that you claim is unhealthy to eat - eating eggs before they become unhealthy is somehow unhealthy? I mean, eggs are either healthy or unhealthy regardless of what they would later become. Unfertilized eggs will never grow into an organism that you would qualify as meat. So, unfertilized eggs are then not meat. Make sense?

 

[RDKirk]

Hey RDKirk:
While I get what you are saying about the fan debate stuff, the problem is people don't actually think that the characters in Star Trek (I'm a Kirk guy) actually exist and don't live their lives as though they do.

Some do.

 

[Xavier363]

Some do.

Would you think that people living their lives and making decisions believing that Star Trek was a documentary would be a healthy thing? I do not. Star Trek is entertainment. Relying on advice from the bible could easily affect your life negatively. That is why I like to point out obviously incorrect things in the bible when someone used the bible to justify a claim. I hope that makes sense.

 

[BNR32FAN]

But not christian beliefs? So, the cure for leprosy in the bible is true and not a myth. Interesting.

Yes it was true, I don’t know if it is still true today.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I did a quick search:
Luke 23:34
Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing."
Luke 23:43
"I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."
John 19:26–27
"Dear woman, here is your son," and to the disciple, "Here is your mother."
Matthew 27:46
“My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?”
Psalm 69:21: "They offer me sour wine for my thirst."
John 19:30
"It is finished!"
Luke 23:46
"Father, into your hands I commit my spirit." When he had said this, he breathed his last.

I'm no bible scholar - far from it. I do know that there are different claims to the last words of Jesus. I wonder how you justify believing in the version that you quoted above? Also, you used the word "recorded" - I wonder about the identity of the person that recorded these words.

Those aren’t His last words. He was resurrected then ascended to Heaven. Then He appeared to John in Revelation and spoke to him. That’s where you’ll find the last words He said to us recorded in the Bible.

 

[RDKirk]

Would you think that people living their lives and making decisions believing that Star Trek was a documentary would be a healthy thing? I do not. Star Trek is entertainment. Relying on advice from the bible could easily affect your life negatively. That is why I like to point out obviously incorrect things in the bible when someone used the bible to justify a claim. I hope that makes sense.

Okay, so your purpose here is to save us from ourselves. Why, thank you for your concern.

 

[Xavier363]

Yes it was true, I don’t know if it is still true today.

So:
Get two birds. Kill one. Dip the live bird in the blood of the dead one. Sprinkle the blood on the leper seven times, and then let the blood-soaked bird fly away. Next find a lamb and kill it. Wipe some of its blood on the patient’s right ear, thumb, and big toe. Sprinkle seven times with oil and wipe some of the oil on his right ear, thumb and big toe. Repeat. Finally find another pair of birds. Kill one and dip the live bird in the dead bird’s blood. Wipe some blood on the patient’s right ear, thumb, and big toe. Sprinkle the house with blood 7 times.
- Leviticus 14:2-52

You think that the procedure above could have been effective sometime in the past to cure anything? And it seems like you are leaving the door open to the possibility of it still being effective today? I don't want to misrepresent your position, so I just have to ask for confirmation.

 

[Xavier363]

Okay, so your purpose here is to save us from ourselves. Why, thank you for your concern.

I like to do what I can to help. Some say that you can't reason someone out of a position that they did not reason themselves into. I don't completely agree with this position.