The old covenant is it still for the unbelieving jews versus the new?

[BABerean2]

The covenants of old have not been forgotten by GOD, but rather will be joined by the NEW Covenant Jeremiah speaks of during the last half of Daniel's 70th Week or the start of "Jacob'sTroubles".

What happened to Israel shortly after Jeremiah wrote about the time of "Jacob's trouble"? Daniel was living in Babylon during that time when he realized the 70 years of exile was coming to a close. Then God sent the angel Gabriel to reveal to Daniel the timeline of the Messiah who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled in Hebrews 8:6-13.

Is the New Covenant found in Daniel chapter 9?


Are we supposed to believe the angel Gabriel appeared to Daniel to reveal the timeline of the Messiah who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and then the angel failed to even mention the New Covenant. Or, is the covenant with the many in Daniel 9:27 the same covenant with the many in Matthew 26:28? The 1599 Geneva Bible is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America, before John Darby showed up on our shores. What was the earlier understanding of Daniel 9:27 found below in the notes of the 1599 Geneva Bible?

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Dan 9:27 And he shal confirme the couenant with many for one weeke: and in the middes of the weeke he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the ouerspreading of the abominations, he shall make it desolate, euen vntill the consummation determined shalbe powred vpon the desolate.


Daniel 9:27

And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


(a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.


(b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.


(c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.



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During recent years many New Covenant scholars have examined Daniel chapter 9 from a New Covenant perspective. Did Christ fulfill the summary found in Daniel 9:24? Is it about the New Covenant fulfilled by the blood of Christ at Calvary?


Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.


Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. (These two verses are quoted from Jeremiah 31:31-34.)

Heb 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.


Act 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.


The death of the Messiah is found in Daniel 9:26, and there are only two possible singular antecedents for the word “he” in the next verse. Those antecedents are either Christ or Titus, who was the prince of the people that destroyed the temple during 70 AD.


Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


Is the “he” in Daniel 9:27 the “Messiah”, or “the prince” of the people that destroyed the city and the sanctuary in verse 26? If we used “the people of the prince” it would not be a singular “he”.


Does the author of the Book of Hebrews connect the New Covenant with the Messiah’s death found in Daniel 9:26, in the verse below?


Heb 9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. (NKJV)


Verse 26 also says the Messiah would be cut off “after” the 69 weeks. If I agree to paint your house “after” 69 weeks, it will not be painted until the 70th week, or after. Is there a “gap” of almost 2,000 years between the 69th week and the 70th week, or was it fulfilled during the first century when the Gospel was preached “first” to the Jews?


We know there is a time period when the Gospel was taken “first” to the Jews, as the Apostle Paul said in the verse below.


Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.


Can we find a time period of about seven years when the Gospel was taken “first” to Daniel’s people during the first century? If we can, we have good evidence that the 70th week of Daniel has already been fulfilled.


Did Christ command His disciples to take the Gospel only to Israel in the passage below?


Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: "Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans.

Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Mat 10:7 And as you go, preach, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.'


Is the time period when the Gospel was preached “first” (Rom. 1:16) to the Jews in the passage above, confirmed in the passage below?


Act 10:36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all

Act 10:37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;

Act 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.


In the passage above Luke confirms the fact that the Gospel of Christ was preached throughout the land of Israel after the baptism which John preached. Here again, we have a text which reveals a time period when the Gospel was taken “first” to the Jews, as Paul said in Romans 1:16.


Bible scholars have looked at the number of Passover celebrations in the Gospels and have estimated Christ’s earthly ministry to have lasted about three and one half years. Was the Gospel taken “first” (Rom. 1:16) to the Jews for a period of about three and one half years during the period of time revealed in the Gospels?


In Galatians 1:14-18 Paul reveals he did not go up to see Peter until about 3 years after his conversion. During that time the Gospel continued to be taken almost exclusively to Daniel's people, before Paul took the Gospel to the Gentiles.


Read the recent book "The 70th Week of Daniel 9 DECODED" by David Wilcoxson for confirmation of the above.

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[earthmover]

Well their traditions became law under the Roman Emperor. A new Sanhedrin was given to the Pharisees at Yavneh. What had been their traditions, did indeed become law via Roman rule of Judea. All other sects were set under the Pharisees at that time.

the Oral Talmud is still taught today.

earthmover

 

[BABerean2]

the Oral Talmud is still taught today.

earthmover

Have you ever read any of the Babylonian Talmud.

According to the book "Jesus in the Talmud", by scholar Dr. Peter Schafer, it claims Christ was the illegitimate child of Mary and a Roman soldier named "Pantera".


Jesus in the Talmud: Schäfer, Peter: 9780691143187: Amazon.com: Books
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[ralliann]

the Oral Talmud is still taught today.

earthmover

Yes. It became "LAW" under Rome. In Christs day much was sectarian tradition of the Pharisees. After the destruction of the temple the priesthood no longer held lawful authority in the court. Rome authorized the Pharisees as the rulers.

 

[earthmover]

Yes. It became "LAW" under Rome. In Christs day much was sectarian tradition of the Pharisees. After the destruction of the temple the priesthood no longer held lawful authority in the court. Rome authorized the Pharisees as the rulers.

I became Law under Rome for the Jews and not the citizens of Rome itself...It was the same in the days of His Crucifixion, burial and resurrection.

Earthmover

 

[earthmover]

Have you ever read any of the Babylonian Talmud.

According to the book "Jesus in the Talmud", by scholar Dr. Peter Schafer, it claims Christ was the illegitimate child of Mary and a Roman soldier named "Pantera".


Jesus in the Talmud: Schäfer, Peter: 9780691143187: Amazon.com: Books
.

you asked?"Have you ever read any of the Babylonian Talmud."

The answer is yes! see below.

During the 1st century (70 AD) Mosaic Judaism had a big problem....The Torah and the practices thereof could not continue as usual with the temple in ruins. Thus without the shedding of sacrificial blood, there would be NO remission of sins.

Along this line of problems that developed,the Council of Jamnia in A.D. 90, began redefining Judaism and the results some 2-5 centuries later,the Talmud (3-6 AD).....This became known as the Geonic Era (7th - 11th centuries).

"The Talmud is a body of Jewish civil and religious law, including commentaries on the Torah, or Pentateuch, and oral laws handed down through tradition. It consists of a codification of laws, called the Mishnah, and a commentary on the Mishnah, called the Gemara.

The Talmud also includes materials which concern decisions by scholars on disputed legal questions known as the Halakhah (from Hebrew, "to go"). The illustrations and amplifications of the ethical, political, and religious principles involved in the laws are set down in the Haggada.

Two compilations of the Talmud exist: the Jerusalem Talmud (3rd - 5th century A.D.), and the Babylonian Talmud (3rd - 6th century A.D.). Both compilations contain the same Mishnah, but each has its own Gemara.

The Babylonian Talmud became authoritative because the rabbinic academies of Babylonia survived those in Palestine by many centuries (and is referred to in the "Geonic Era").

After the completion of the Talmud, the Halakhah continued to develop as it was applied to new situations by rabbinical authorities. The Haggada also continued to develop, in the form of compilations, commentaries, and mystical and moral literature.

One of the most important of the works of Talmudic scholarship is the Mishneh Torah by the Spanish rabbi, philosopher, and physician Maimonides; it is an abstract of all the rabbinical legal literature in existence at his time. Among the most widely known commentaries are those on the Babylonian Talmud by the French rabbi Rashi and by certain scholars known as tosaphists, who lived in France and Germany between the 12th and 14th centuries.

The epistemological problems emerge from an excessive veneration of the scholastic commentators over the text itself. This lengthening tether reaches its extremes in the imaginative conjectures that emerged among the Kabbalistic scholars of the 11th and 12th centuries and subsequently.

It is interesting to note that there emerged a Jewish sect in the 8th century known as the Karaites who clung to the strict interpretations of the Scriptures, rejecting the Talmud and the rabbinical traditions that had been incorporated during the first six centuries.

Considered heretical by "Orthodox" Jews, in Czarist Russia they were exempted from abuses such as the double taxation, the pogroms, etc., that fell on Talmudic Judaism. (Today there are some 30,000 Karaites, concentrated largely in Israel; small communities are also found in the United States, Poland, France, and Turkey.)

Sources:
Gershom Scholem, Kabbalah, Keter Publishing House, Jerusalem, Israel, 1974.
Encyclopedia Judaica, (17 vols) Publishing House, Jerusalem, Israel.
Encyclopedia Britannica, Encarta, and other standard library resources.
Personal interviews with Rabbinical authorities in Israel and U.S. "

(Epistemology, Part 3: Koinoia House)

Earthmover

 

[BABerean2]

you asked?"Have you ever read any of the Babylonian Talmud."

The answer is yes! see below.

During the 1st century (70 AD) Mosaic Judaism had a big problem....The Torah and the practices thereof could not continue as usual with the temple in ruins. Thus without the shedding of sacrificial blood, there would be NO remission of sins.

Along this line of problems that developed,the Council of Jamnia in A.D. 90, began redefining Judaism and the results some 2-5 centuries later,the Talmud (3-6 AD).....This became known as the Geonic Era (7th - 11th centuries).

"The Talmud is a body of Jewish civil and religious law, including commentaries on the Torah, or Pentateuch, and oral laws handed down through tradition. It consists of a codification of laws, called the Mishnah, and a commentary on the Mishnah, called the Gemara.

The Talmud also includes materials which concern decisions by scholars on disputed legal questions known as the Halakhah (from Hebrew, "to go"). The illustrations and amplifications of the ethical, political, and religious principles involved in the laws are set down in the Haggada.

Two compilations of the Talmud exist: the Jerusalem Talmud (3rd - 5th century A.D.), and the Babylonian Talmud (3rd - 6th century A.D.). Both compilations contain the same Mishnah, but each has its own Gemara.

The Babylonian Talmud became authoritative because the rabbinic academies of Babylonia survived those in Palestine by many centuries (and is referred to in the "Geonic Era").

After the completion of the Talmud, the Halakhah continued to develop as it was applied to new situations by rabbinical authorities. The Haggada also continued to develop, in the form of compilations, commentaries, and mystical and moral literature.

One of the most important of the works of Talmudic scholarship is the Mishneh Torah by the Spanish rabbi, philosopher, and physician Maimonides; it is an abstract of all the rabbinical legal literature in existence at his time. Among the most widely known commentaries are those on the Babylonian Talmud by the French rabbi Rashi and by certain scholars known as tosaphists, who lived in France and Germany between the 12th and 14th centuries.

The epistemological problems emerge from an excessive veneration of the scholastic commentators over the text itself. This lengthening tether reaches its extremes in the imaginative conjectures that emerged among the Kabbalistic scholars of the 11th and 12th centuries and subsequently.

It is interesting to note that there emerged a Jewish sect in the 8th century known as the Karaites who clung to the strict interpretations of the Scriptures, rejecting the Talmud and the rabbinical traditions that had been incorporated during the first six centuries.

Considered heretical by "Orthodox" Jews, in Czarist Russia they were exempted from abuses such as the double taxation, the pogroms, etc., that fell on Talmudic Judaism. (Today there are some 30,000 Karaites, concentrated largely in Israel; small communities are also found in the United States, Poland, France, and Turkey.)

Sources:
Gershom Scholem, Kabbalah, Keter Publishing House, Jerusalem, Israel, 1974.
Encyclopedia Judaica, (17 vols) Publishing House, Jerusalem, Israel.
Encyclopedia Britannica, Encarta, and other standard library resources.
Personal interviews with Rabbinical authorities in Israel and U.S. "

(Epistemology, Part 3: Koinoia House)

Earthmover

Did you notice in your reading that much of what is in the Babylonian Talmud is the rabbis arguments of how to get around keeping the Old Covenant?


.

 

[ralliann]

I became Law under Rome for the Jews and not the citizens of Rome itself

Well, yes of course. It was that way with all authorized religions in the Empire. Each had their own peculiar religious practice and laws so to speak. But when the temple was destroyed the priesthood was usurped, and the
pharisees were given rule in Judaism.