The oceans are getting hotter = more heatwaves

[AV1611VET]

Looks to me like we've boxed ourselves into a no win situation.

God's church will be rescued from the earth just before all Aitch breaks loose.

It's call The Rapture.

 

[timewerx]

I don't know where it's coming from specifically.

But for the sake of arguing, let's say climate change is the result of poor stewardship of God's creation.

In dispensation theology, which I subscribe to, each dispensation ends with a judgement of God on the earth for not doing what we are supposed to do.

Thus, the judgement that ends the Dispensation of Grace -- (which is what we are under now) -- is the Tribulation Period.

And in the end times, Jesus said there would be a rise in weather phenomena.

It's going to happen.

It's all part of the Master Plan:

Revelation 11:18
The nations were angry,
and your wrath has come.
The time has come for judging the dead,
and for rewarding your servants the prophets
and your people who revere your name,
both great and small—
and for destroying those who destroy the earth.”

The Bible prophesied the Earth will be laid to waste by people and guess what who's among those people who destroy the Earth? Christians!

No rapture for those who destroy the Earth I'm afraid OR probably the 'rapture' version in Matthew 24 where being 'raptured' is a bad thing.

 

[eclipsenow]

I'm all for "love thy neighbor."

But what is it you want us to do?

Give up our:

1. gas-powered cars
2. cement patios
3. glass windows
4. barbecue grills
5. fireplaces
6. soda pop
7. CO2 extinguishers

Give up nothing. I could be wrong - but you sound like the Tea-Party sort that thinks it's all a scam to deprive us - led by "The Communists" or some tyrants or something. But it's the other way around. By being addicted to oil and gas, we're funding countries that don't like us very much! (Us western democracies - like America and Australia where I live.)

When we move to electric vehicles, we'll stop buying oil off people who don't like us very much, like Russia and the Middle East. EG: Saudi Arabia would just be called 'Arabia' but the US needed oil. So for generations America has hypocritically supported a repressive Monarchy of the Middle Ages variety. Can their women drive yet? Show their faces in public? So much for "Bringing democracy to the Middle East!" And wasn't it great from both a geopolitical and national security angle for Germany be totally reliant on Russian gas?

Yet renewable energy systems can run the modern world safer and cheaper and with more national energy security.

We should be voting for it, writing about it, talking about it.

It's loving our neighbour. It's energy security. It's national security.

But it's a huge societal transformation - so involves us writing to our representatives, buying accordingly where we can, talking about it, praying about it, etc. We can't just solve it through individual action - much like Christian individuals couldn't just solve the slavery situation in the past on their own by individual action. Yet accumulative action? This is as important. It's about loving our neighbour, protecting the fragile climate we are in - and not utterly rejecting the science in our minds and thinking just because it's all complex and hard. Listen to climatologist Dr Katharine Hayhoe - an evangelical. We're to love our neighbour, and even the Creation itself. Why? Because God does. We should not see it as 'disposable' because of the eschatological situation we're in.

Finally, it's in our own self interest. When we've made the transition we'll have a cheaper health bill - because fossil fuels poison us and cost about the same amount as we pay for them again in our health bills.

 

[eclipsenow]

God's church will be rescued from the earth just before all Aitch breaks loose.

It's call The Rapture.

This is a science forum. You can take that to the eschatology forum please.

 

[dlamberth]

God's church will be rescued from the earth just before all Aitch breaks loose.

It's call The Rapture.

I seriously doubt it.

 

[AV1611VET]

This is a science forum. You can take that to the eschatology forum please.

Just thought you might want to know that God cares about His creation as well as us.

 

[ozso]

It seems most of the places experiencing issues only exist the way they do due to man-made intervention. Coastal areas that only exist due to dredging and levees and dams.

 

[eclipsenow]

Just thought you might want to know that God cares about His creation as well as us.

Your actions are speakings so loudly I can't hear your words.

 

[eclipsenow]

It seems most of the places experiencing issues only exist the way they do due to man-made intervention. Coastal areas that only exist due to dredging and levees and dams.

Um - huh? So whole continents receiving less rain than they used to, sea level rise, weather pattern shifts, heatwaves doubling in number, deforestation and land use changes and extinctions and particulate pollution and cancer rates rising as a country industrialises - none of this is real?

 

[ozso]

Um - huh? So whole continents receiving less rain than they used to, sea level rise, weather pattern shifts, heatwaves doubling in number, deforestation and land use changes and extinctions and particulate pollution and cancer rates rising as a country industrialises - none of this is real?

Sea levels have always risen and subsided. The Bible talks about massive extensive droughts that occured thousands of years ago. Weather patterns always shift. Extinctions have always occurred. The difference is we now have a boatload of technology keeping track of every little thing happening. That doesn't mean it isn't real, it means that phenomena is being tracked in a way that it never has before. The Earth has always gone through significant changes. But now when a boatload of tech discovers a one or two degree temperature change somewhere, it sets off alarm bells.

 

[eclipsenow]

Sea levels have always risen and subsided.

Oh boy.

The Bible talks about massive extensive droughts that occured thousands of years ago.

So does history and climate science. It's not like climate scientists say CO2 is the ONLY driver of climate - that's a denier straw-man argument that's totally ignorant of what climate scientists actually study. As IF climate scientists haven't ever wondered "Gee - has the climate changed before?"

Weather patterns always shift.

See above.

Extinctions have always occurred.

Not this fast.

The difference is we now have a boatload of technology keeping track of every little thing happening.

That helps us measure how it's 100 times faster than natural.

The Earth has always gone through significant changes.

Guess what? Proxies into past temperatures give us a picture of how and why these things occur. There was a time when extreme excesses of CO2 saved life on earth! But that was Snowball earth - way before most land animals and plants had even arrived on the scene. We KNOW CO2 causes warming - we can test it on a Fourier Device in a lab. Even Mythbusters tested the basic physics.

But now when a boatload of tech discovers a one or two degree temperature change somewhere, it sets off alarm bells.

Yeah - right. If you're that prone to any misinformation on the net - I've got a piece of the Sydney Harbour Bridge I could sell to you?

 

[AV1611VET]

It's not like climate scientists say CO2 is the ONLY driver of climate -

Better watch them rice paddies!

How much is growing rice contributing to the destruction of this planet?

 

[DragonFox91]

Sounds to me like they are projecting the entire year based on what it has been this year so far. That's not how 'climate' works.

 

[AV1611VET]

Sounds to me like they are projecting the entire year based on what it has been this year so far. That's not how 'climate' works.

I'm surprised they haven't brought Y2K back to scare us.

 

[Halbhh]

Oceans have always fluctuated in heat. Ice age come to mind?

The Annual global surface temperature trend is remarkable.

"The 10 warmest years in the 143-year record have all occurred since 2010, with the last nine years (2014–2022) ranking as the nine warmest years on record..."

Monthly Climate Reports | National Centers for Environmental Information (NCEI)

A collection of monthly summaries recapping climate-related occurrences on both a global and national scale

www.ncei.noaa.gov

 

[eleos1954]

It's getting interesting out there!

‘Headed off the charts’: world’s ocean surface temperature hits record high

Scientists warn of more marine heatwaves, leading to increased risk of extreme weather

www.theguardian.com

Read the article ..... is clear they don't know .... so is speculation ..... science speculates about a lot of things.

 

[eclipsenow]

Just thought you might want to know that God cares about His creation as well as us.

This is great - this means because it is His creation, I don't have to care about anything. Slaves? Hey - it's His creation. My brother being poor? It's His creation. Someone torturing the children next door? Hey - it's His creation. I can just sit back and take it easy because it's not MY creation - it's His creation! I love the "logic" in these applied ethics of yours AV - I never realised I could be "Chill like that."

James 2

14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

By imbibing the "Fox News" alt-right view of climate science you are participating in one of the biggest cons against reasoned action to help the poor. You are sneering at their needs - sneering at the possibility of the need itself. As if you actually know anything about climate science!

 

[sjastro]

This is great - this means because it is His creation, I don't have to care about anything. Slaves? Hey - it's His creation. My brother being poor? It's His creation. Someone torturing the children next door? Hey - it's His creation. I can just sit back and take it easy because it's not MY creation - it's His creation! I love the "logic" in these applied ethics of yours AV - I never realised I could be "Chill like that."


My imbibing the "Fox News" alt-right view of climate science you are participating in one of the biggest cons against reasoned action to help the poor. You are sneering at their needs - sneering at the possibility of the need itself. As if you actually know anything about climate science!

Don't forget AV has a pathological hatred towards scientists and science.
If scientists say climate change is human induced he will oppose it as a matter of principle.

Evangelical Protestants are more likely than any other group to be climate change skeptics.

In general, evangelical Protestants tend to be the most likely of all major U.S. religious groups to express skeptical views. For instance, about a third of evangelical Protestants say the Earth is getting warmer mostly due to human activity (32%), while similar shares say the Earth is getting warmer mostly due to natural patterns (36%) or that they are unsure or not convinced the Earth is getting warmer (32%). Meanwhile, members of non-Christian religions and people who do not identify with any religion – particularly self-described atheists and agnostics – consistently express the highest levels of concern about climate change. Other Christian subgroups, such as Catholics, generally fall somewhere in between.

4. Religious groups’ views on climate change

Most Americans say the Earth is getting warmer, including a narrow majority (53%) who say it is mostly because of human activity, such as burning fossil

www.pewresearch.org

 

[sjastro]

The article doesn't really go into the technical details of how ENSO (El Nino Southern Oscillation) is a driver for ocean surface temperatures.
This video gives a basic outline of ENSO and how models based on ENSO are beyond speculation but difficult to forecast due to the many factors involved.

 

[eclipsenow]

Read the article ..... is clear they don't know .... so is speculation ..... science speculates about a lot of things.

Read the article - it is clear they have instruments measuring GLOBAL heating of the oceans that are blowing the old records out of the water. It might not sound like a lot, but every tenth of a degree in ocean warming is vastly more heat trapped than atmospheric warming, mainly because of the extra density of water and how it works. Basically 'global warming' should be called 'ocean warming' because most of the heat ends up in there. And when the ocean physics burps out even a fraction of that extra heat, we're going to feel it.

Don't forget AV has a pathological hatred towards scientists and science.
If scientists say climate change is human induced he will oppose it as a matter of principle.

Evangelical Protestants are more likely than any other group to be climate change skeptics.

4. Religious groups’ views on climate change

Most Americans say the Earth is getting warmer, including a narrow majority (53%) who say it is mostly because of human activity, such as burning fossil

www.pewresearch.org

It's because too many American Christians are influenced by Young Earth Creationism. They don't appreciate the work that's been done on the genre of Genesis - and think being hyper literalistic is the only 'godly' way to read Genesis 1. They don't even let themselves see the literalistic contradictions between Chapter 1 and 2!

Reading Genesis is more like reading Shakespeare than an engineering manual or literal history. There’s a false antagonism here. We don’t have a bad reaction to Shakespeare's metaphors in the line - "But soft, what light through yonder window breaks? It is the east, and Juliet is the sun!"

We don’t turn around and complain "What nonsense! There's no way any truth is being conveyed in this nonsense because Juliet is obviously not a giant ball of fusing hydrogen millions and millions of miles across!" That would be ridiculous. That would be misunderstanding the genre of the text, reading the poetic as literal. Sometimes poetry is the best genre to explain certain truths, like love or dramatic theology!

Dr John Dickson - with a Phd in history as well as degrees in theology - unpacks Genesis:

---

"In Genesis 1, multiples of seven appear in extraordinary ways. For ancient readers, who were accustomed to taking notice of such things, these multiples of seven conveyed a powerful message. Seven was the divine number, the number of goodness and perfection. Its omnipresence in the opening chapter of the Bible makes an unmistakable point about the origin and nature of the universe itself. Consider the following: The first sentence of Genesis 1 consists of seven Hebrew words. Instantly, the ancient reader’s attention is focused;

The second sentence contains exactly fourteen words. A pattern is developing;
The word ‘earth’—one half of the created sphere—appears in the chapter 21 times;
The word ‘heaven’—the other half of the created sphere—also appears 21 times.
‘God’, the lead actor, is mentioned exactly 35 times.
The refrain ‘and it was so,’ which concludes each creative act, occurs exactly seven times;
The summary statement ‘God saw that it was good’ also occurs seven times;
It hardly needs to be pointed out that the whole account is structured around seven scenes or seven days of the week.

The artistry of the chapter is stunning and, to ancient readers, unmistakable. It casts the creation as a work of art, sharing in the perfection of God and deriving from him. My point is obvious: short of including a prescript for the benefit of modern readers the original author could hardly have made it clearer that his message is being conveyed through literary rather than prosaic means. What we find in Genesis 1 is not exactly poetry of the type we find in the biblical book of Psalms but nor is it recognizable as simple prose. It is a rhythmic, symbolically-charged inventory of divine commands." https://www.publicchristianity.org/the-genre-of-genesis-1-an-historical-approach/ More at his podcast. Six Days - Undeceptions