The Normalizing Of Bastard Children

[A_Thinker]

Perhaps my parents were not married to each other and I wonder if anyone here remembers that children grow up.

You will find nothing particularly enlightening from that poll. There is only displayed there the frailty of some few of your brethren.

Rather, go on in the joy of your Lord ... for His Father ... is now our Father ...

Luke 2

41 Every year His parents went to Jerusalem for the Feast of the Passover. 42 And when He was twelve years old, they went up according to the custom of the Feast.

43 When those days were over and they were returning home, the boy Jesus remained behind in Jerusalem, but His parents were unaware He had stayed. 44 Assuming He was in their company, they traveled on for a day before they began to look for Him among their relatives and friends.

45 When they could not find Him, they returned to Jerusalem to search for Him. 46 Finally, after three days they found Him in the temple courts, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions. 47 And all who heard Him were astounded at His understanding and His answers.

48 When His parents saw Him, they were astonished. “Child, why have You done this to us?” His mother asked. “Your father and I have been anxiously searching for You.”

49 “Why were you looking for Me?” He asked. “Did you not know that I had to be in My Father’s house?” 50 But they did not understand the statement He was making to them.

1 John 3

1 Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed upon us, that we should be called children of God. And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know Him.

2 Beloved, we are now children of God, and what we will be has not yet been revealed. But we know that when Christ appears, we will be like Him, for we will see Him as He is.

 

[JackRT]

Sorry, typo, I meant Aramaic.

Actually Hebrew and Arabic are similar languages. Some form of Arabic must have been around in the first century I would think.

 

[CharismaticLady]

check the forum rules and if you think I'm in violation of them then report me but I assure you I'm not and that should be a good enough answer.

For clarity I'm a Nicene Christianity (which is implied by posting here), you'll just have to accept that I call Christ Isa.

Curious, do you call His Father Jehovah or Allah?

 

[CharismaticLady]

check the forum rules and if you think I'm in violation of them then report me but I assure you I'm not and that should be a good enough answer.

For clarity I'm a Nicene Christianity (which is implied by posting here), you'll just have to accept that I call Christ Isa.

Either way, welcome to the forums. I'm not going to report you.

 

[A Realist]

Curious, do you call His Father Jehovah or Allah?

Millions of Christians in the middle east refer to the Almighty as "Allah". Since Christianity existed in that area long before it did in the U.S. or Europe, I suggest you take a step back an look at history.

 

[DamianWarS]

Curious, do you call His Father Jehovah or Allah?

I speak 2 languages so there is a unique language identity with Allah however I do use it (and so does my bible) and I'll use it in English as well. Whether the OP knows it or not this is partly about the words we use and my argument is that the word "bastard" cannot be normalized because our culture has moved on so we should move on too.

This same argument can be used for names we refer to God too, sometimes the words we use can be offensive or misunderstood so we need to recognize when they no longer carry the gospel well. It would be hypocritical of me to say we can't use bastard but I can use Allah/Isa as much as I want. Paul tells us "everything is permissible but not everything is beneficial" which means that just because we have the freedom to say whatever we want (like "bastard" or "Allah") it doesn't mean it's always the wisest to say. We are still slaves to our mission and should know our mission well and know the right words to use with them.

I will adjust my language to my environment and use the words that fit it, here, in an online public forum, it's abstract and these freedoms are more broadly defined which is why I don't see a problem using it here, plus it is my personal identity I mostly tell others I meet about my faith so it happens to be true. This term is fully integrated and normalized within my daily walk too but I don't live in a western country so this isn't odd or controversial of me in taking this identity, I've just carried it over to this online community.

I, however, don't think the term "bastard" can be normalized (which I know is not the direct question of the OP) if it can, then the normalization takes away the social stigma so wouldn't be a problem just like any swear word today could be normalized in 50 years and no longer considered a swear word. that's fine in 50 years but for now we need to adjust our language for now, not 50 years ago, not 50 ahead... but now. And the word "bastard" is just simply not a word used any more.

 

[DamianWarS]

Either way, welcome to the forums. I'm not going to report you.

I'm been a member here since 2008, most of that time I've carried this identity and it has come up many times (which is probably why I'm a little quick about it) and I know I've been reported on it a handful of times but admins have never made an issue probably because it goes against CF rules to suggest someone is not a Christian that identifies as such.

 

[SkyWriting]

Yes, St. Paul. He also called St. Peter Satan and cursed a fig tree.

I don't consider anything in scripture profound unless it is documented by multiple writers in scripture. I think one-off stories have little value.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I speak 2 languages so there is a unique language identity with Allah however I do use it (and so does my bible) and I'll use it in English as well. Whether the OP knows it or not this is partly about the words we use and my argument is that the word "bastard" cannot be normalized because our culture has moved on so we should move on too.

This same argument can be used for names we refer to God too, sometimes the words we use can be offensive or misunderstood so we need to recognize when they no longer carry the gospel well. It would be hypocritical of me to say we can't use bastard but I can use Allah/Isa as much as I want. Paul tells us "everything is permissible but not everything is beneficial" which means that just because we have the freedom to say whatever we want (like "bastard" or "Allah") it doesn't mean it's always the wisest to say. We are still slaves to our mission and should know our mission well and know the right words to use with them.

I will adjust my language to my environment and use the words that fit it, here, in an online public forum, it's abstract and these freedoms are more broadly defined which is why I don't see a problem using it here, plus it is my personal identity I mostly tell others I meet about my faith so it happens to be true. This term is fully integrated and normalized within my daily walk too but I don't live in a western country so this isn't odd or controversial of me in taking this identity, I've just carried it over to this online community.

I, however, don't think the term "bastard" can be normalized (which I know is not the direct question of the OP) if it can, then the normalization takes away the social stigma so wouldn't be a problem just like any swear word today could be normalized in 50 years and no longer considered a swear word. that's fine in 50 years but for now we need to adjust our language for now, not 50 years ago, not 50 ahead... but now. And the word "bastard" is just simply not a word used any more.

That is very interesting that your Bible uses Allah. I never knew that. Is your Bible written in English or your other language?

 

[DamianWarS]

That is very interesting that your Bible uses Allah. I never knew that. Is your Bible written in English or your other language?

it's another language (it's not Arabic) nor is it controversial among Christians wher I live. Isa is more controversial (in greater Christendom but not where I live) as it is more uniquely an Islamic identity yet I read a bible still that uses this term, and I belong to a fellowship of believers that refer to Christ as Isa and pray to God as Allah. Arabic speaking Christians also call God Allah as Christians were using it long before Islam came into the picture such as "Allah al-ab" (God the Father). Etymologically speaking its not difficult to make the jump.

Elohim is plural for Eloah and both are used in scripture to refer to God. The Aramaic is "Elah" which is also used in scripture to refer to God in it's Aramaic portions (that's right, the OT is not all in Hebrew, there are some portions only in Aramaic such as Daniel and Ezra). Also Jesus would have used Aramaic so probably referred to God in certain contexts as "Elah". Then finally in Arabic it turns to Allah.

Hebrew Elohim/Eloah -> Aramaic Elah -> Arabic Allah

Compare with the word "God" which comes from a germanic pagan deity "Got"... you tell me, which is cleaner? Abstractly it doesn't matter, it's how the words are used to give glory to God that really matters (but of course we also need to pay attention to our audience). I use Allah and Isa to give him glory not to discredit him.

 

[CharismaticLady]

it's another language (it's not Arabic) nor is it controversial among Christians wher I live. Isa is more controversial (in greater Christendom but not where I live) as it is more uniquely an Islamic identity yet I read a bible still that uses this term, and I belong to a fellowship of believers that refer to Christ as Isa and pray to God as Allah. Arabic speaking Christians also call God Allah as Christians were using it long before Islam came into the picture such as "Allah al-ab" (God the Father). Etymologically speaking its not difficult to make the jump.

Elohim is plural for Eloah and both are used in scripture to refer to God. The Aramaic is "Elah" which is also used in scripture to refer to God in it's Aramaic portions (that's right, the OT is not all in Hebrew, there are some portions only in Aramaic such as Daniel and Ezra). Also Jesus would have used Aramaic so probably referred to God in certain contexts as "Elah". Then finally in Arabic it turns to Allah.

Hebrew Elohim/Eloah -> Aramaic Elah -> Arabic Allah

Compare with the word "God" which comes from a germanic pagan deity "Got"... you tell me, which is cleaner? Abstractly it doesn't matter, it's how the words are used to give glory to God that really matters (but of course we also need to pay attention to our audience). I use Allah and Isa to give him glory not to discredit him.

Thank you very much for this important information, that every westerner should read.

 

[Not David]

I don't consider anything in scripture profound unless it is documented by multiple writers in scripture. I think one-off stories have little value.

Let's get rid of most of the New Testament except for the Synoptic Gospels then.

 

[SkyWriting]

Let's get rid of most of the New Testament except for the Synoptic Gospels then.

The letters to the churches, for sure. They should not have been saved for eternity.

 

[joshua 1 9]

I don't recall Jesus shaming anyone to repentance.

In the beginning Adam and Eve were ashamed. God made them a covering to cover their shame. When we lose a battle or fail - we feel shame. Sometimes we need an ally to help us fight the battle so that we can have victory and overcome. The husband and wife are to join together as one and they help their family, their children to overcome and have victory.

 

[Not David]

The letters to the churches, for sure. They should not have been saved for eternity.

Yet most of theology comes from there. Interesting how people can hate St. Paul that much to want to get rid of most of the NT

 

[A_Thinker]

The letters to the churches, for sure. They should not have been saved for eternity.

The New Testament church effectively decided which of the Apostolic writings were of value and so, preserved them. Are you more inclined to trust your own singular judgement, as opposed to the judgement of the body of believers ?

Most believers understand Paul to be instructive both, in his own time-period, ... and for those which came after him. Paul specifically noted that some of his teachings were from the Lord, while other teachings were his own (and thus, not eternally binding). The wise christian can discern between the two (especially since Paul is fairly explicit about it).

There is no need to throw out the baby with the bath-water. In fact, of all of the Bible's teachers, Paul gives the clearest indication that the externals of the Church may differ ... from place to place ... and from time to time.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

You're right. I thought about it after I posted it and these guys are married, so it wouldn't be fornication. So it is a verse on bastards. But if an aborted or miscarried bastard's parents get saved after the fornication, what happens to the embryo?

The child in the womb , based on what all Scripture says, is sanctified if one of the parents is a <true> believer/ saved/ circumcised heart by Yahuweh.....

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Christ gave them a new identity, so we should treat them accordingly.

So you are speaking specifically here of those who became born again then, right ?

Not as if anyone should berate someone who is not born again apart from the Heavenly Father's Guidance and Direction,
but there is a life and death difference between those who are born again and those who are not.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Well I think it's very reasonable to judge people based on their behaviour. That's what God will do and it's fair,if a person feels shame for what they do.....don't do it.

Yeah we can have grace but don't pretend that the rebuke is the problem,because it's only the highlighter to the problem.

'Judge' like the religious leaders judge today/ then (in the Bible) ?

Or Judge with a Righteous Judgment, the same Judgment (learned and believed and accepted as the only right judgment: the Father's Judgment/Appraisal) ?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Let's be realistic, the death penalty for adultery will never return. We can manage our affairs better with planning to live better lives for ourselves but more importantly by our children and get that blessing from God for doing his will.

"Realistic" ? Who is doing His Will ?
The death penalty for adultery is still true - God's Word has not changed. Only men have dropped it, and some will, some won't, make it happen one way or another. (in some countries if a spouse cheats, the other spouse takes care of it.... to put it most mild)...

"Better planning to live better lives for ourselves" ? Did that ever work(in the flesh/ world) ? Or "more importantly by our children" and "get that blessing" ? Did that come to pass for most people ?