The No-Kids-Allowed Movement - Prejudice much?

[FaithPrevails]

Every parent/kid has their own rhythm when it comes to parenting styles, IMO. Boys are usually different in demeanor than girls. One kid is different than the next. And so on.

I think we've all probably had "that kid" out in public at some point or another. I know I have, especially with my son who is ADHD. The difference is whether or not the parent is proactively responding to the "that kid" moment, IMO.

I definitely agree that we need to be hands-off in certain ways. It's how they learn independence and problem solving, et.

Oh - ETA to add that I think slacking off is actually a natural survival skill that the kid(s) benefit from lest they end up strung up by their toes.

 

[EmilyF]

FaithPrevails, my oldest got on red last year once. He got in a lot of trouble at home. No screen time, no friends in and he had to write a letter of apology to the teacher for being disrespectful. She also appreciated the support.

I often feel like I'm too hard on him but he's a sneaky, deceitful, manipulative and too smart for my good little bugger. He's six and doing algebra and having intelligent discussions about infinity. He understands American History an a way beyond his years. I'm in a LOT of trouble.

 

[FaithPrevails]

Ha! You do have your hands full. I don't think being hard on them is a bad thing as long as it's in appropriate ways. I'm hard on my kids, but in ways that challenge them and spur them to go above and beyond. One of my friends is a teacher at their school and commented last school year about how high my expectations are for my kids. I forget that's true sometimes, b/c I feel like if they are capable of it, I should expect it of them.

Whenever an issue of peer pressure comes up, I chant "Be a leader, not a follower" to my kids. Just yesterday in the grocery store, my son told me he gets made fun of at lunch for having Capri Sun Roaring Waters instead of juice or kool-aid (true story? who knows, could have been a manipulative tactic to get the Kool-Aid Jammers lol). I told him that he needed to tell the teacher if that was happening and if it continued to let me know. But, I remained firm in also telling him that I'm not going to buy him junk drinks just b/c all the other kids drink them.

My other son said, "Yeah, besides - you'll get this big (stretched arms out far apart) if you eat and drink junk food all the time". Apparently my preaching is sinking in. lol

 

[FaithPrevails]

My older son wants to be the rescuer whenever he sees someone getting picked on. I tell him that will only turn the negative attention/behavior to him. He can say to the person they aren't being very nice, but if it continues, he needs to involve a teacher. Yet, when it comes to him getting picked on, he doesn't stick up for himself. We've been working on that - I like the "So?" tactic. I will have to tell him to try that on for size this year.

He's a tall boy for his age, which makes him an easy target. He ended up getting picked on by the shortest boy in his class last year.

 

[EmilyF]

Levi is on the thin side but very solid about it. He's not a very wise kid to target. It's not pretty when the temper goes.

Levi doesn't really like to stick up for himself either and he has a hard time with any kind of attention. He's really his father's son.

 

[bill5]

Let me preface this saying I love children and want lots of children and I also work with children. Kids like me and I like them.....

However the restaurant that was quoted in the article....I fully support them in thier choice for their private establishment. And I would go out of my way to visit them if I wanted to have an evening out with someone special or with other adults uninterupted. I figure if I have children or my nieces and nephews with me and want to go out to eat with them; i'll go to a place that caters to families and there are hundreds that do. Kids will be kids and display normal child behavior and I love children; but caregivers that do nothing about kids with them getting out of hand is my beef. I'll never forget going out to eat with a pregnant girlfriend and while we were there a family came in with really really cute kids. However, the parents did nothing about what their children were doing. Their little boy was running around with a fork. And yes I get that to a child eating in a new place with lots of people at a place that has cool forks is intriquing and fun; he was thinking like a child and it was like 9pm so he was probably over excited and tired at the same time. But, to let your child do that is really dangerous to other patrons that aren't there to fawn over your kid. Long story short, the boy ran up to my friend and "stabbed" her in the belly!!! She let out a scream!! She wasn't hurt, thank God!!! But the parents NEVER appologized and went as far to try and laugh it off. "Kids will be kids and he thought you had a balloon under there!" is all that was said to her!!! Um, wow! We were not amused. The management appologized to her profusely, but we left so I don't know if they kicked them out or not. It was wild.


So I see this particular restaurant's (that was quoted about in the article) viewpoint. It didn't cater to children in the first place, and the owner and staff were probably trying to police other people's children (and probably getting cursed out for it) instead of being able to fully do their jobs to serve their regulars that they probably got the most business from.
On another forum I frequent we were discussing this in great detail and the point was brought up that the public isn't sick of kids; it's sick of parents that sit there and let their children bother or endanger the safety of other patrons or staff and laugh or think it's cute and think we should all be ok with it and think it's cute too. If a child is throwing things , hitting other customers, harming or putting others in harms way with their behavior in a public place, screaming to the point of a tantrum, etc.. then the parents need to intervene and take them out or the management has the right to ask them to leave. I always think that restaurants that put a no-child policy into place have probably had many many complaints from their customer base over behaviors that they were tired of haggling about and that were possibly hurting their business.


I have no problems with kids being kids and cute children enhance my out in public experience, but the extremes of allowing bad behavior and letting it cross into other people's path seem to be growing. And so businesses and people are reacting. I still think patrons (or staff) have the right to complain if they get hurt or they get hit with food or something else unusual in the unruly realm. Crying, melt downs, etc... these are pretty normal for kids and if the parents are right there dealing with it; then I think most people have no problem with it. But, things like getting pelted with food, stuck with a fork, running into and knocking down others ; things that are extreme and out of the ordinary and the parents just act like everyone should be ok with getting hurt or having their food ruined by flying objects landing in your dish; this is what people and businesses get fed up with. And unfortunately it happens too often. I always complement the well behaved kids I see in restaurants and stores; I think it encourages them and reinforces the right way to act.


I also support the ban of cellphones in movie theaters and feel like applauding when theater staff follow through on their polices and kick out people who are texting and talking on their phone during movies. I usually send them a positive e-mail about it. And I support theaters kicking out parents with crying children in movies that have ratings that are not for children. I think that is extremely rude and disturbing on the part of the parents; "I'm going to bring my kid to this R-rated movie because I want to see it and I don't care how it affects everyone else or my child's emotional well-being".

:THUNDEROUS APPLAUSE:

You saved me a lot of keystrokes. Thanks for reminding me that there are at least a few other people out there who get it.

I LOVE these restaurants and would go out of my way and pay more to eat there. To know I won't hear some ear-piercing squeal while I'm trying to eat would be a very refreshing change of pace.

It's an incredibly tragic statement of our society that there are so many people out there without the vaguest clue how to be a parent that this has become necessary.

 

[Niffer]

Heh, in pre-school, Levi was "The Enforcer". His class had a kid that was hitting everyone. Hit kid would cry, there'd be a big mess. Levi was not a small kid and Hitter hit Levi. Levi hit him back. I usually don't condone hitting. It's a pretty big penalty around here. But the kid did stop hitting.

He also stood up to a boy last year. He told me that he wanted to hit this too and we talked about the things in this boy's life. It's enough to say it was bad stuff and he was taken from his parents. I taught Levi to say "So?" everytime that the kid some something to him.

Levi, you're retarded.
So?
Levi, you're ugly.
So?
LEvi your clothes are dumb
So?
Levi, you are stupid!!!
So?
*bad word* Levi, you won't let me pick on you!!!!!
So?

It was a big turning point for Levi who was worrying about it a lot. He didn't like seeing his friends getting picked on. The kid didn't stop, but he had a LOT stacked against him and it slowly did at least get better.

Over all, my kids are good kids and really, I and they have it very good.

That is an awesome idea! I've never seen that suggested for sticking up to a bully, but that would work!
Good on Levi!

 

[white dove]

We were talking about this over in Singles and I still don't understand the neccesity. I think this poster says a mouthful (taken from one of the linked articles):

Posted by tiggycat Thu Sep 9, 2010 5:10pm PDT
'It's not that people are more intolerant of kids, they are intolerant of ANYTHING that's inconvenient, noisy, messy, uncomfortable or slightly unpleasant. Everything around us, at all times, must be the way we want it or it must go away or change in order to please us. As a society it is all about me, me, me!!! Think about it. How often do you get mad at traffic and/or red lights that slow you down....how annoyed are you when you have to wait for a table at a restaurant...do you get testy waiting in lines? I'm not saying that we are all a bunch of ogres all the time, but there is a very self entitled mindset in our society today.

I really do understand that being around a crying baby or loud kid can be annoying. I agree that some parents could do more to teach their kids to behave better in public. However, you don't know the reason why that child's being difficult or why the parent isn't dealing with it the way YOU think they should. Kids are noisy, messy and sometimes unreasonable, that's way they are called "children" NOT "miniature adults".'



I've said it before and I'll say it again: I go out to eat quite a bit and have for many years - several different types of restaurants at various times - and have never had an incident occur that would make me suggest banning children or infants from a place. Before I got pregnant, I said some pretty stupid things in response to children running around store dressing rooms, but that was immaturity on my part. Yes, parents need to watch over, protect and discipline their children. If they don't, I think it's up to a responsible, respectful, tactful adult to speak up. The message this kind of action emits is that it isn't the parents that is the problem, it's the children.. when that is really not the case at all. Either that or as the poster I quoted stated, we hate anything having to "inconvenience" us in the slightest. Some people do dislike babies and children and they tend to dislike them for being babies and children - acting their age. It's too bad such people cannot do the very same.

 

[white dove]

Actually it's called "ageism" or "age discrimination" and it is illegal in Canada (maybe it's different in the US) - also, after banning someone under 18 after 8pm is usually because the venue serves alcohol, and is a pub or bar.

You're right in saying that children should not be everywhere...a high-scale restaurant at 9pm on a friday night, for example.
But just because a few bad apples spoiled the bunch, I'm going to be banned from that entire chain?
What about the bans on children on airplanes? Why should I be treated as a 2nd class citizen because I have a child? Why does the drunk woman get to shout at the top of her lungs in the plane, or that man continually fart beside me, or the incessant snoring of old people that rivals the sounds of the airplane??

If noise is the largest complaints, can we PLEASE ban all teens from ages 15-19 in packs of larger than 4 in any public place?
Because between their music I can clearly hear from their ear buds, their swearing and loud, obnoxious "LIKE O.M.G GUYZZZ!! WHATEVERS!!!!!!!" squealing, (in the case of girls) and the stupid "Beavis" laugh of "uh-huh-huh-huh" from guys, I'm just about ready to pull my own ears off.

If you get to complain about my 2 year old crying, I get to complain about your teen squealing at the top of their lungs at any movie with a teen boy in it.

Equality or we all learn how to get along, and put up with eachother.

- Niff

Good point.

 

[bill5]

(taken from one of the linked articles):

Posted by tiggycat Thu Sep 9, 2010 5:10pm PDT
'It's not that people are more intolerant of kids, they are intolerant of ANYTHING that's inconvenient, noisy, messy, uncomfortable or slightly unpleasant.

Not correct. At least that is not what many of us are talking about. We are not "intolerant of ANYTHING that's inconvenient, noisy, messy, uncomfortable or slightly unpleasant." But there is (finally!!) a growing group of us who are finally getting fed up enough with screaming obnoxious brats and similarly rude, idiotic behavior from anyone, young or old (yapping on cell phones in inappropriate places, etc etc) that has become so common and so extreme that we're FINALLY speaking out against it...and best of all, businesses are starting to listen. I dream of the day that one of these "no one under 6" retstaurants opens up, because if the food is even half-decent and not hideously expensive, it'll get almost all of my eating out business - and I'll eat out a lot more.

there is a very self entitled mindset in our society today.

I agree, but again that is not what we are saying here. To feel "entitled" to people behaving themselves and acting courteously is more than reasonable and not at all self-centered/spoiled/etc.

I really do understand that being around a crying baby or loud kid can be annoying. I agree that some parents could do more to teach their kids to behave better in public. However, you don't know the reason why that child's being difficult or why the parent isn't dealing with it the way YOU think they should.

Most of the time, yeah I do - it usually isn't hard to assess for anyone with a functioning brain. It's because the Griswald parents are morons who can't be bothered to teach their kids how to behave in public. As for "dealing with it the way I think they should," I'm not asking to do everything exactly how I would. I'm asking them to keep the kid in line. I don't much care how they do it (within reason, let's not get silly about it) - positive reinforcement, negative reinforcement, time outs, "negotiations," yelling, spankings, whatever. Bottom line: get the kid to behave. Largely this is a question of noise and FYI with rare exception the ONLY valid reasons for a kid (old enough to understand the diff between good and bad behavior of course) to scream - I don't mean get kinda loud while playing/etc but out-and-out blood-curdling screams - are because they are in pain, and - well that's about it. But it's routine for a disturbing number of brats to do it for any reason, or worse none at all. Meanwhile Mr and Mrs Brain-dead do nothing - in fact it's hardly rare for them to not even bother to be paying attention, perhaps because they are on their beloved precious cell phone that God forbid they not have glued to their ear for more than 10 minutes at a time.

Kids are noisy, messy and sometimes unreasonable, that's way they are called "children" NOT "miniature adults".'

No argument there. No one is asking for perfection. Just teach your kids how to behave by making AND ENFORCING the rules. If they start up, deal with it. Immediately. This fails to happen far, far too often. I've all but given up eating out because of it. I cannot relax and eat when I know there's at least a 90% chance that sooner or later some kid is going to cut loose.

PS and oh btw: there is no law mandating people to take out extremely young kids (who aren't old enough to know better ie newborns, toddlers and such) to a nice restaurant, theaters, churches, etc etc, ie places where they will get nothing out of it or remember it anyway. FYI there are these things called BABYSITTERS.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I go out to eat quite a bit and have for many years - several different types of restaurants at various times - and have never had an incident occur that would make me suggest banning children or infants from a place.

So you're deaf. Well that can be a blessing in this case.

Yes, parents need to watch over, protect and discipline their children. If they don't, I think it's up to a responsible, respectful, tactful adult to speak up.

Sadly, that's what we've come to, and I don't always agree with the "tactful" part. Some people are far too clueless or uncaring. The only way to get through to them is to be rude and hostile back. I don't like that fact any more than anyone else, but it's reality: for some, if you don't make it an unpleasant enough experience, they won't change, because they don't care and they have no incentive. Small wonder their kids are spoiled, because they are basically spoiled kids themselves.

The message this kind of action emits is that it isn't the parents that is the problem, it's the children.. when that is really not the case at all.

Absolutely true. That's why I focus my attention on the parent, not the kid.

 

[bill5]

Originally Posted by Niffer
But just because a few bad apples spoiled the bunch, I'm going to be banned from that entire chain?

Sadly, that's what we've come to.

What about the bans on children on airplanes? Why should I be treated as a 2nd class citizen because I have a child?

? I have never heard of banning kids from airplanes. To the 2d question, you shouldn't. You should if you can't keep your kid under control, however.

Why does the drunk woman get to shout at the top of her lungs in the plane,

The fact that this is far rarer than screaming kids aside, she doesn't. I'm sure if this occurred, a stewardress would be all over it, and if not, someone should certainly get them to.

If noise is the largest complaints, can we PLEASE ban all teens from ages 15-19 in packs of larger than 4 in any public place?

Where are you that this is a big problem? I've haven't noticed it. Besides, there's quite a difference from older kids who occasionally get a little loud and a child screaming an ear-piercing scream.

Because between their music I can clearly hear from their ear buds, their swearing and loud, obnoxious "LIKE O.M.G GUYZZZ!! WHATEVERS!!!!!!!" squealing, (in the case of girls) and the stupid "Beavis" laugh of "uh-huh-huh-huh" from guys, I'm just about ready to pull my own ears off.

lol - I've been there. But again I guess it's diff where you are as I very rarely have ever seen this in places like restaurants or planes.

If you get to complain about my 2 year old crying, I get to complain about your teen squealing at the top of their lungs at any movie with a teen boy in it.

Why you would take a 2 yr old to a movie I'll never know, but yeah I'm fine with EVERYONE keeping quiet during a movie. What a concept eh?

 

[white dove]

So you're deaf. Well that can be a blessing in this case.

Sadly, that's what we've come to, and I don't always agree with the "tactful" part. Some people are far too clueless or uncaring. The only way to get through to them is to be rude and hostile back. I don't like that fact any more than anyone else, but it's reality: for some, if you don't make it an unpleasant enough experience, they won't change, because they don't care and they have no incentive. Small wonder their kids are spoiled, because they are basically spoiled kids themselves.

I'm only going to post this one time in response to you as your maturity level - as indicated by several of your responses already, including the ones I'm quoting here - appears to equal those of which you're complaining about.


I'm actually not deaf. I have decent pitch, as well, as I am able to play various musical instruments by ear, thanks. As I've already stated, I've gone out to eat in several different places, several different types of places at various hours and have never had a problem with an unruly child or baby that would make this ban make sense to me. I've also had quite a few "child-free" dining experiences, with the company of my significant other, family or friends - and not really "asked-for" child-free experiences. It just so happened to have happened that way. I know what it's like to have a nice couple's evening or a nice quiet moment alone at a restaurant. More importantly, I know what it's like to dine within earshot of children or babies and not feel disrupted by them or their presence or behavior. I live in a big city though, maybe that makes a difference - even though I have had my fair share of dining experiences in small towns, too.

I pose these questions to those who find such a ban necessary: Exactly how many "disrupted" restaurant experiences have you had at the hands and mouths of children or babies (I included babies because clearly, they fall under the umbrella of banning anyone under the age of 6)? And exactly how often do you go out to eat? Do you tend to go to the same places? Do you ever ask the hostess or waitstaff - or even management if the situation calls for it - to be situated where children (or people, in general) are not a nuisance to you? If you don't speak up or walk out (in other words, maturely find a way to get the point across that the child or baby's behavior is disruptive or more importantly, when it's dangerous to themselves or to those around them and/or peacefully walk out and refuse to even patronize said place), you have nobody to blame for spoiling your good time but yourself.

 

[bill5]

I'm only going to post this one time in response to you as your maturity level - as indicated by several of your responses already, including the ones I'm quoting here - appears to equal those of which you're complaining about.

I was kidding. Look, smiley face and everything.

I do find it amazing that you've either never experienced the kind of things we're talking about here in a restaurant or don't find it exceedingly rude/disturbing/etc, but to each their own.

I pose these questions to those who find such a ban necessary: Exactly how many "disrupted" restaurant experiences have you had at the hands and mouths of children or babies (I included babies because clearly, they fall under the umbrella of banning anyone under the age of 6)?

I never bothered to count, but it happens MOST times I eat out. ie far too many and unacceptable for those of us who feel it's reasonable to expect a dining experience that does not include ear-piercing screams or squeals or whatever.

And exactly how often do you go out to eat? Do you tend to go to the same places?

? How is that relevant? Do you really think this is confined to one incident or place? FYI we aren't talking McDonalds here, and do you really think these so-called parents all just go to one place in town? They are everywhere....

Do you ever ask the hostess or waitstaff - or even management if the situation calls for it - to be situated where children (or people, in general) are not a nuisance to you?

I have. Unfortunately, I found out that really there is no such place. A screaming child cannot be far enough away in such a place for it not to be annoying as hell. PS and oh btw, that is the point we are making about this ban: such a request should not be necessary.

If you don't speak up or walk out (in other words, maturely find a way to get the point across that the child or baby's behavior is disruptive or more importantly, when it's dangerous to themselves or to those around them and/or peacefully walk out and refuse to even patronize said place), you have nobody to blame for spoiling your good time but yourself.

That's completely ridiculous. If you are out somewhere and a child screams, how is that YOUR fault? Speaking up or walking out (etc) can't "un-do" it.

Now here's an idea for parents: if you are unable or worse unwilling to teach your child to behave for any reason, leave them at home. ie be considerate of others around you.

 

[Niffer]

Sadly, that's what we've come to.

? I have never heard of banning kids from airplanes. To the 2d question, you shouldn't. You should if you can't keep your kid under control, however.

The fact that this is far rarer than screaming kids aside, she doesn't. I'm sure if this occurred, a stewardress would be all over it, and if not, someone should certainly get them to.


Where are you that this is a big problem? I've haven't noticed it. Besides, there's quite a difference from older kids who occasionally get a little loud and a child screaming an ear-piercing scream.

Lol - I've been there. But again I guess it's diff where you are as I very rarely have ever seen this in places like restaurants or planes.

Why you would take a 2 yr old to a movie I'll never know, but yeah I'm fine with EVERYONE keeping quiet during a movie. What a concept eh?

The bolded made me laugh. "Occasionally get a little loud"?! Seriously?
I don't know where you've holed yourself up in, but I'm a Librarian at a Public Library, a place one would think would be more quiet.
Yet day after day after day, I have to threaten to kick out these dumb teens that use our internet to squeal over pictures on Facebook, and rush to each other's computers to make loud, inappropriate comments. Not to mention the swearing, derogatory terms and loud conversations on their cell phones.

Ironically, I've had FAR less trouble when children are noisy - their parents are always all over them. Telling them to be quiet, or stopping them from running around.

So in my experience, it's teens who cause much more noise than the average 3 year old.

Also, I'm sorry you misunderstood, but I'm not trying to say that a 2 year old should be taken to a movie - I was using it as an example of a place I too, would enjoy silence, and being interrupted by your teen squealing. So by your reasoning we should ban all of them from coming to movies too.

Perhaps we can make a "Teen friendly" viewing - where they can all squeal together at 10:30pm, because, I don't want to have to deal with them - therefore they shouldn't be there if they can't behave in a way I deem appropriate, amiright??
Or we can just ban them all together - and send them to their own "Teen" movie theater, so I don't even have to look at them, much less hear them!
Hey! I think I have some real winning ideas here!
"The No-Teen Allowed" movment. ...I'm sure there are some well behaved teens who can be in public places, but I don't want to have to deal with the odd-chance that I'll come across a bad one...so complete banning does seem simpler!!!

- Niffer

 

[bill5]

The bolded made me laugh. "Occasionally get a little loud"?! Seriously?
I don't know where you've holed yourself up in, but I'm a Librarian at a Public Library

On the other hand, we see where you've holded yourself up in. ie your library is but one of a zillion places and types of places; we've been focusing more on restuarants, but really my point or contentions are more general to public places where one should be able to expect and get relative quiet (not tombstone quiet, just absent of extremely loud, piercing noises like crying and screaming), and it is usually the very young doing it. As for your having to get after older kids more than younger, that's probably largely due to the fact that older kids aren't there with their parents. But you'll note the younger kids are acting up as well.

PS I have been to libraries <edit>, so don't think I'm disagreeing with your area of expertise. In fact I salute you for keeping after such kids; I could never do your job, I'd end up in jail for homicide. But such is the times we're living in, which again is really my point. There are SO many parents out there who should've been neutered before their child-bearing years as they are utterly clueless about teaching a child even the most basic of manners.

Also, I'm sorry you misunderstood, but I'm not trying to say that a 2 year old should be taken to a movie

Thanks and my bad.

I was using it as an example of a place I too, would enjoy silence, and being interrupted by your teen squealing. So by your reasoning we should ban all of them from coming to movies too.

I'd happily endorse this to some extent or other (eg the examples you give below) and in fact pay extra for such a place...

Perhaps we can make a "Teen friendly" viewing - where they can all squeal together at 10:30pm, because, I don't want to have to deal with them - therefore they shouldn't be there if they can't behave in a way I deem appropriate, amiright??

Not quite. They shouldn't be there if they can't behave in a way which is commonly understood to be reasonable to expect, like keeping their voices down etc. Sadly, common sense and common courtesy are the ultimate oxymorons today.

As for "teens only" or "adults only" viewing times for movies, works for me, but not quite the same logic applies. Noise from teens vs from toddlers are two diff animals. Teens can get noisy but aren't nearly as prone to unpredictable screams (I do mean SCREAMS), crying, running up and down the ailes (etc) like very young kids are. Really the answer IMO varies depending on what kind of place we're talking about and other circumstances. For ex that might be more necessary in theaters, but not so much in restaurants. I rarely if ever have heard teens get really loud there.

Hey! I think I have some real winning ideas here!

Me too!

I don't want to have to deal with the odd-chance that I'll come across a bad one...so complete banning does seem simpler!!!

I don't know what you mean by "complete banning," but no one is suggesting all kids be banned from all places - just that it would be nice - REALLY nice - to have at least a few "adults only" places where quiet is expected (like restaurants), since, unfortunately, these alleged parents who are too lazy/stupid/whatever to teach their kids proper behavior are apparently breeding like cockroaches.

 

[FaithPrevails]

I've had all of my children shriek in public places - both happy ones and tantrum-style, ear-splitting, people-think-I'm-beating-my-child shrieks.

Kids make noise. They don't understand always that it isn't appropriate. The onus is completely on the parents to deal with the noise level.

A happy shriek might invoke a smile and a "shhhhh" from me. A tantrum will be dealt with appropriately 9 times out of 10. But there is that 1 time out of 10 that I simply have to complete the task at hand. (Think grocery store, Walmart, etc.)

I've actually removed my child from a restaurant and sat in the car for the remainder of the time (and had my meal boxed to go) while my extended family finished dinner.

But, what is going to get noticed is that 1 time out of 10 that I had to get something finished - and usually it will get noticed with a glare or some inappropriate/unsolicited comments by strangers around me.

One time, I did have a woman show some compassion and it had such a tremendous impact on me. My younger son (pre-ADHD diagnosis and medication) bolted while I was in line at a checkout. I had to chase him down (I had him strapped into the cart, but at 3, he fought his way out of it - as I was juggling him, the cart, and my older child). I had to let him out or he was going to fall/injur himself. At 3, he was ridiculously strong, btw.

After I chased him down, I came back to the line and went to the end of it - now 4 people deeper than when I ran off and resigned myself to having to wrestle him that much longer. The woman who had originally been behind me turned and motioned for me to resume my place in front of her in line. I couldn't thank her enough!

There are times to be annoyed by this behavior and times to look at the big picture and understand what the parent/s might be going through in the moment.

JMHO

 

[ex-pat]

I think the major source of such manners issues is that there is no longer much attempt to teach kids proper behaviour at ALL TIMES. I can remember from at least kindergarten onward being expected to sit with a napkin in my lap at home, and to make conversation about something (school, a museum we'd visited, what we'd been playing during the day, music lessons, anything) as well as being expected to let others take their turns talking. We were not allowed to scream that something was yucky, we were told one bite of everything, then as we wished. We were expected to ask if we could be excused when we were finished eating. In good restaurants mom said we could bring a book (face it, children's portions and appetites are, and will be, smaller than those of adults) to read to ourselves or make conversation with the adults.

These days, many children have no particular manners required of them at home, so what should have become ingrained "this is how we behave at all times" behaviour becomes new, burdensome, and frets them when they do go out...so they act up more.

It's all about parenting. If a parent has a child who is not mature enough for this, or who has ADHD, or similar, that parent should be well aware of that and take the child to someplace more child-friendly, like Chili's or Applebee's, rather than to an upscale restaurant. AND they should have crayons, paper, and other small sources of amusement in their purses/diaper bags/whatever. And the standby: goldfish crackers! Kids get to smell all the food smells and want to eat, NOW! They don't understand the concept of "order, wait". AND for heaven's sake...DO NOT GO OUT TO EAT WITH PRESCHOOLERS At 9:00 P.M.!!!!!!! Those children should be in bed (exceptions made for travelers whose kids may have been sleeping the last three hours in the car).

Again, the issue comes down to PARENTING!!!!!!

(And yes, I've taken three year olds to The Nutcracker, the National Symphony, living history museums, hotels, and restaurants, and never, never had them say more than a whispered sentence during a show...because it wasn't necessary..they'd been prepped for what to expect at the event, told they could whisper questions, and that they were expected to behave. Worked beautifully.)

 

[bill5]

Beautiful post. Thanks!

 

[mina]

I think the major source of such manners issues is that there is no longer much attempt to teach kids proper behaviour at ALL TIMES. I can remember from at least kindergarten onward being expected to sit with a napkin in my lap at home, and to make conversation about something (school, a museum we'd visited, what we'd been playing during the day, music lessons, anything) as well as being expected to let others take their turns talking. We were not allowed to scream that something was yucky, we were told one bite of everything, then as we wished. We were expected to ask if we could be excused when we were finished eating. In good restaurants mom said we could bring a book (face it, children's portions and appetites are, and will be, smaller than those of adults) to read to ourselves or make conversation with the adults.

These days, many children have no particular manners required of them at home, so what should have become ingrained "this is how we behave at all times" behaviour becomes new, burdensome, and frets them when they do go out...so they act up more.

It's all about parenting. If a parent has a child who is not mature enough for this, or who has ADHD, or similar, that parent should be well aware of that and take the child to someplace more child-friendly, like Chili's or Applebee's, rather than to an upscale restaurant. AND they should have crayons, paper, and other small sources of amusement in their purses/diaper bags/whatever. And the standby: goldfish crackers! Kids get to smell all the food smells and want to eat, NOW! They don't understand the concept of "order, wait". AND for heaven's sake...DO NOT GO OUT TO EAT WITH PRESCHOOLERS At 9:00 P.M.!!!!!!! Those children should be in bed (exceptions made for travelers whose kids may have been sleeping the last three hours in the car).

Again, the issue comes down to PARENTING!!!!!!

(And yes, I've taken three year olds to The Nutcracker, the National Symphony, living history museums, hotels, and restaurants, and never, never had them say more than a whispered sentence during a show...because it wasn't necessary..they'd been prepped for what to expect at the event, told they could whisper questions, and that they were expected to behave. Worked beautifully.)

bingo! It sounds like you really understand how children think and how to head off problems! Sure there will always be "misbehavior" or "kid-like" behaviors from kids (not saying that kid behaviors are misbehaving just that they can be misconstrued as such), but letting children know what to expect beforehand goes a LOOOONNNG way! Also modeling expected behavior at home and in public as a parent or grown up is so so important as well.

 

[united4Peace]

The no-kids-allowed movement is spreading - Parenting on Shine

I'll let the article speak for itself, because my mouth is currently too full of mean words to comment.
-Niff

On the weekend we went with our children (teenagers) to a restaurant for lunch, I would have enjoyed it except for one family who had their baby with them. The baby cried the entire time.
We also went to a play at a theatre. People were asked to turn off their phones and to remove crying babies. Again some small children behind us talked right through the play and a baby cried through half the play.
Ive also gone to family restaurants (not McD's) for a nice brunch and have seen children running back and forth and yes I do think they should be banned or taken outside.
When our children were babies they were very well behaved. They sat in a restaurant. We would bring some small toys and crayons and keep them occupied. Nothing unnerves me more than a crying baby, espeasally when Im looking forward to a nice quiet family meal or movie etc.
Also why on earth would one take a child under 8 to a movie like Harry Potter? My kids went but again they were somewhat older...9/10 years of age. Just my thoughts...maybe Im just an old grump though