The Nicene Creed - line by line

[MarkRohfrietsch]

I am reminded I still need to post some replies - at least I am feeling human again.

Some good replies here regarding the Holy Spirit. I wasn't really sure what to say next, but I didn't want to let this thread lapse. So thank you all for the observations.

I wonder if the reason "Who spoke through the prophets" is included in the Creed in order to make it clear that the Holy Spirit was active in the period before Christ as well, or to make a connection to the Holy Spirit as mentioned in the OT Scriptures? I'm not sure.

But since the Creed is a recounting of what the Father has done, and what the Son has done, it makes sense to include the actions of the Holy Spirit as well. Perhaps to differentiate their roles somewhat as well.

Since as I mentioned, it was quite a surprising revelation to me that it was probably the Holy Spirit that I actually experienced as God, and that was responsible for my understanding of Scripture, and so on, it does seem important to remind believers of His role in the Godhead in interacting with mankind.

Who spoke through the prophets.

This also affirms faith and trust in the validity of Scripture as well.

 

[rick357]

That's true. It's like the disciples recieved the Holy Spirit in the breath
~ like Adam did ~
to produce life for the new creation.
But when the wind and fire came upon them it seemed
more to be for the work of carrying forth His message.

The indwelling of the Spirit is to bring you into oneness with God....Adam dies in crucifiction you lose that life...but the Spirit makes you one with Jesus and the Father...so it is Gods life shared with you...."For this is life that they may know you"(the Father)....to know is experianced to learn is to know a fact....it is not just a message we carry but Jesus himself.

 

[~Anastasia~]

This also affirms faith and trust in the validity of Scripture as well.

Very good point. I hadn't thought of that.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

The indwelling of the Spirit is to bring you into oneness with God....Adam dies in crucifiction you lose that life...but the Spirit makes you one with Jesus and the Father...so it is Gods life shared with you...."For this is life that they may know you"(the Father)....to know is experianced to learn is to know a fact....it is not just a message we carry but Jesus himself.

With the breath of life Jn 20:22 Jesus says to 'recieve the Spirit'
but with the Spirit of power from on high we put Him on like a uniform
and that's typified by the mantle of Elijah.

Taking that to the level of baptism
the former, the living water, requires drinking in John 7:37-39
while the latter, like the water of baptism,
requires being immersed Acts 1:5

2 aspects of experience of baptism into one Spirit.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body
—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free
—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.

So the breath, or the indwelling of the Spirit is essential for living
and the outpouring of the Spirit is essential for accomplishing His work thru us.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

So I have a question, does anyone know if the Nicene Creed officially references/quotes anything beyond the OT and 27 books of what would become the NT? And how about the Apocrypha? Were any of its unique verses quoted or referenced in this Creed's formulation?

Thanks!

--David[/SIZE][/FONT]

The Book of Sirach was part of the background in influencing what was seen in Nicene. I think one review that would bless you can be seen in The Jewishness of the Nicene Creed | Christian History and The Making of Creeds
as well as The Neff Review: IN THE SHADOW OF THE TEMPLE by Oskar Skarsaune

 

[paul becke]

Kylissa

'Since as I mentioned, it was quite a surprising revelation to me that it was probably the Holy Spirit that I actually experienced as God, and that was responsible for my understanding of Scripture, and so on, it does seem important to remind believers of His role in the Godhead in interacting with mankind.'

----------------------------

I found it interesting that towards the end of the Apostles' Creed, although the connections are not explicitly made, the articles of faith enumerated after the simple reference to the Holy Spirit, are all works of the Holy Spirit:

'the Holy Catholic Church, the Communion of Saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body and life everlasting.'

The Creed, itself, starts off with the brief narrative concerning the Father, then the extended narrative concerning Jesus, and finally, the simple reference to the Holy Spirit and a brief list of his most significant 'inspirational' activities. Starting from the top, 'God the Father Almighty', it opens out like a pyramid, through Jesus' life, death, resurrection and ascension, to that single, brief reference to the Holy Spirit, which, when 'unpacked' in terms of the key roles it plays in our faith, however, spreads out to form the base of the pyramid.

Slightly tangentially, some months ago, I chanced upon this touching, true story concerning the Jewish prayer, the Shema. There are a number of slight variants to it, but unfortunately, I couldn't find the one I had read first:

http://ourrabbijesus.com/articles/shema_ancient_memory_in_an_orphanage/

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Kylissa

'Since as I mentioned, it was quite a surprising revelation to me that it was probably the Holy Spirit that I actually experienced as God, and that was responsible for my understanding of Scripture, and so on, it does seem important to remind believers of His role in the Godhead in interacting with mankind.'

----------------------------

I found it interesting that towards the end of the Apostles' Creed, although the connections are not explicitly made, the articles of faith enumerated after the simple reference to the Holy Spirit, are all works of the Holy Spirit:

'the Holy Catholic Church, the Communion of Saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body and life everlasting.'

Outside of our Lord Jesus Christ in the Eucharist, I believe that we have the more direct contact with the Holy Spirit; our fist contact with God in our Baptism is the Holy Spirit.

 

[paul becke]

Outside of our Lord Jesus Christ in the Eucharist, I believe that we have the more direct contact with the Holy Spirit; our fist contact with God in our Baptism is the Holy Spirit.

Sure, Mark! In Him, 'we live and move and have our being.'

Eighty years ago, it was discovered via quantum physics that mind precedes matter. And now all matter has been found to ultimately reduce to information (as in computer code - but quaternary, not binary). 'In the beginning was the Word.'

 

[~Anastasia~]

My apologies - I should have moved this forward by now. Very interesting comments on the Holy Spirit.


I believe in one God, Father Almighty, Creator of
heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of
God, begotten of the Father before all ages;

Light of Light, true God of true God, begotten,
not created, of one essence with the Father
through Whom all things were made.

Who for us men and for our salvation
came down from heaven and was incarnate
of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary and became man.

He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate,
and suffered and was buried;

And He rose on the third day,
according to the Scriptures.

He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father;

And He will come again with glory to judge the living
and dead. His kingdom shall have no end.

And in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Creator of life,
Who proceeds from the Father [and the Son], Who together with the
Father and the Son is worshipped and glorified, Who
spoke through the prophets.

In one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church.

I almost want to break this down into:

One
Holy
Catholic
Apostolic
... Church

But I guess we can discuss it either in parts or the whole line.

 

[Time4Truth]

we believe in One God (in three Persons) ... not in three gods.

Im a fan of one God, many names..

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Deu_6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

Jesus is the image of the invisible God, the flesh for the Father to sacrifice himself through.

Joh_14:9 "he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?"

Col_1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

1Ti_3:16 "God was manifest in the flesh."

 

[MoreCoffee]

One holy, catholic, and apostolic church. That's easy. I attend that one

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

One holy, catholic, and apostolic church. That's easy. I attend that one

Yes, we do; mine has a different name though.

I believe that "One holy, catholic" encompasses all who have sincere, repentant faith in God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit; and especially in the Gospel our Lord Jesus Christ. This would be not just those believers here, in this world, but those who have preceded us. In the Apostles Creed this is called "the communion of saints".

"Apostolic church" for me, means that the Church maintains the teaching and practice of the Apostles. For many, this also means Churches in Apostolic succession; but such was not a concern at the time of the writing of this creed, so I'll go with the simpler definition.

 

[rick357]

Yes as some said they followed Pauls teaching...some Appolos...others said they only followed what Jesus taught...
To wich Paul responded we.are one...what Paul taught...what Peter taught....What John taught...where not seperate from what Jesus taught...
So with the church the orthodox...and protestant...and pentacost....and Roman cathlic all speaking as though they are seperate...the original church was a Jewish catholic church to be exact....
Yet the point is despite our disagreements we believe in the Father...Son ...and Holy Spirit....that tbe Son was manifest in the flesh...crucified and resurected as a Redeemer for all who put their trust in him....
Jesus is our temple where we must go if we will obediantly worship God....in judaism of Jesus day there where differant sects who disagreed on many things but one thing bound them together showing them they were the same....temple worship.
We now should understand we are bound together by the temple that was raised in three days when it was destroyed...the body of our Lord Jesus the Christ of God who by their Spirit abide in all those who trust in them for life.

 

[paul becke]

That is certainly something interesting to think about, and wonderful to look forward to! Something along those lines is what made me think about the reason God exists in Trinity in the first place - or just my musings on that thought, anyway.

The Catholic Church teaches theosis, doesn't it?

Absolutely, it does! I think people have difficulty believing in our ultimate incorporation in God's family by even by adoption, grafting into the vine. But the compelling NDEers give accounts that seem to fully concur with it.

I have a strong suspicion - who could know? - that if God could have made us 'part of God' in our own right together with their own three Persons, instead of by adoption, he/they would have done so. That's how much he loves us.

 

[Radagast]

Let's not leave this thread unfinished...

I believe in one God, Father Almighty, Creator of
heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of
God, begotten of the Father before all ages;

Light of Light, true God of true God, begotten,
not created, of one essence with the Father
through Whom all things were made.

Who for us men and for our salvation
came down from heaven and was incarnate
of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary and became man.

He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate,
and suffered and was buried;

And He rose on the third day,
according to the Scriptures.

He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father;

And He will come again with glory to judge the living
and dead. His kingdom shall have no end.

And in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Creator of life,
Who proceeds from the Father [and the Son], Who together with the
Father and the Son is worshipped and glorified, Who
spoke through the prophets.

In one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church.

I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins.

Acts 2:38: "And Peter said to them, 'Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.' "

1 Peter 3:21-22: "Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him."

Matthew 28:19: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"

Ephesians 4:4-6: "There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call— one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all."

 

[~Anastasia~]

Let's not leave this thread unfinished...



Acts 2:38: "And Peter said to them, 'Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.' "

1 Peter 3:21-22: "Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him."

Matthew 28:19: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"

Ephesians 4:4-6: "There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call— one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all."

Thanks Radagast!

My apologies, I had been meditating on one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church, and hadn't put my thoughts together yet. But in the back of my mind, I really wanted to continue this thread, so thanks for the nudge. I've been feeling badly for not progressing it. Life has been hectic this week, and I wanted to give it better attention than I've had to offer.

With that said, Baptism has been on my mind much lately, because I am am being received into a Church, but have been unable to document my own from my childhood.

You pretty much posted the verses I have been thinking about, Radagast. I have to say that baptismal regeneration was actually the most difficult thing for me to accept in looking into what the early Church taught.

I don't have much to add, except that I appreciate that the Lord chose water. One can be "buried" in water, and "resurrected. Water washes clean. And water, like the wind, moves where it will, as does the Holy Spirit.

Which reminds me that "living" or "moving" water is preferred for baptism, according to the Didache. I enjoyed reading the passages on Baptism found there as well.

Chapter 7. Concerning Baptism. And concerning baptism, baptize this way: Having first said all these things, baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living water. But if you have no living water, baptize into other water; and if you cannot do so in cold water, do so in warm. But if you have neither, pour out water three times upon the head into the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit. But before the baptism let the baptizer fast, and the baptized, and whoever else can; but you shall order the baptized to fast one or two days before.

 

[Radagast]

I don't have much to add, except that I appreciate that the Lord chose water. One can be "buried" in water, and "resurrected. Water washes clean. And water, like the wind, moves where it will, as does the Holy Spirit.

Yes; it really resonates. 1 Peter 3:20-22 (which I did not quote in entirety) explicitly links baptism to the saving of Noah. That story in turn links to Moses (in the Hebrew O.T., Moses is placed in an "ark").

Which reminds me that "living" or "moving" water is preferred for baptism, according to the Didache. I enjoyed reading the passages on Baptism found there as well.

There are many versions of the baptismal liturgy, and they're all good. This prayer from the Reformed liturgy manages to catch most of the Scriptural resonances:

"O Almighty and eternal God, thou, who hast according to thy severe judgment punished the unbelieving and unrepentant world with the flood, and hast according to thy great mercy saved and protected believing Noah and his family; thou, who hast drowned the obstinate Pharaoh and his host in the Red Sea, and hast led thy people Israel through the midst of the Sea upon dry ground,by which baptism was signified -- we beseech thee, that thou wilt be pleased of thine infinite mercy, graciously to look upon these children, and incorporate them by thy Holy Spirit, into thy Son Jesus Christ, that they may be buried with him into his death, and be raised with him in newness of life; that they may daily follow him, joyfully bearing their cross, and cleave unto him in true faith, firm hope,and ardent love; that they may, with a comfortable sense of thy favor, leave this life, which is nothing but a continual death,and at the last day, may appear without terror before the judgment seat of Christ thy Son, through Jesus Christ our Lord, who with thee and the Holy Ghost, one only God, lives and reigns forever. Amen."

 

[~Anastasia~]

Yes; it really resonates. 1 Peter 3:20-22 (which I did not quote in entirety) explicitly links baptism to the saving of Noah. That story in turn links to Moses (in the Hebrew O.T., Moses is placed in an "ark").



There are many versions of the baptismal liturgy, and they're all good. This prayer from the Reformed liturgy manages to catch most of the Scriptural resonances:

"O Almighty and eternal God, thou, who hast according to thy severe judgment punished the unbelieving and unrepentant world with the flood, and hast according to thy great mercy saved and protected believing Noah and his family; thou, who hast drowned the obstinate Pharaoh and his host in the Red Sea, and hast led thy people Israel through the midst of the Sea upon dry ground,by which baptism was signified -- we beseech thee, that thou wilt be pleased of thine infinite mercy, graciously to look upon these children, and incorporate them by thy Holy Spirit, into thy Son Jesus Christ, that they may be buried with him into his death, and be raised with him in newness of life; that they may daily follow him, joyfully bearing their cross, and cleave unto him in true faith, firm hope,and ardent love; that they may, with a comfortable sense of thy favor, leave this life, which is nothing but a continual death,and at the last day, may appear without terror before the judgment seat of Christ thy Son, through Jesus Christ our Lord, who with thee and the Holy Ghost, one only God, lives and reigns forever. Amen."

Thanks especially for sharing that liturgy. I was getting ready to look up the Orthodox version, and I'm interested to read others as well. This is by far the most significant Baptismal prayer I have heard.

Thank you.

 

[Radagast]

Thanks especially for sharing that liturgy. I was getting ready to look up the Orthodox version

I like the way that the Orthodox liturgy refers to the person being baptised as "the servant of God."

 

[~Anastasia~]

I haven't read the baptismal liturgy, but when receiving the Eucharist, the person is always addressed as "servant of God"

I can easily hear Fr. Matthew say that in my mind, since I've heard him say it many thousands of times now probably.


I like it too.