The next phase in the Liturgy Wars?

[RileyG]

In what way, other than an ancient language few people really understand and we cant see what the priest is doing.?
Both Masses have silence and reverence.

It’s said very quietly, and it’s relatively easy to follow if you have a hand missal and attend a number of times.

It’s still very pretty, in my opinion.

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

You can attend Mass anywhere in the World and follow what is being said, if the same language is being used.

Big Deal. No one actually speaks at the language, we're all equally unable to understand.

Same goes for official Church business: if everyone is communicating through the same language, misunderstandings are less likely to occur.

Yeah, but - no one fluent in the language, nuance is lost.

Latin was maybe retained because it was the human language of the Empire.

Huh ?

To use Klingon might be sacreligious or profane: not treating God with the respect He deserves. Something real happens at Mass, not something to be taken lightly.

And it's the occurrence that's important, not the oral language used.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

It’s said very quietly, and it’s relatively easy to follow if you have a hand missal and attend a number of times.

It’s still very pretty, in my opinion.

Probably because you bring your own reverence and the liturgy nurtures it.

 

[Wolseley]

Big Deal. No one actually speaks at the language, we're all equally unable to understand.

Yeah, but - no one fluent in the language, nuance is lost.

Huh ?


And it's the occurrence that's important, not the oral language used.

Maybe we should start teaching Latin in the schools again, do you suppose? Si hoc legere potes, plane bene docta es!

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Maybe we should start teaching Latin in the schools again, do you suppose? Si hoc legere potes, plane bene docta es!

Do they even teach English anymore?

But Latin helped me to appreciate language itself.

 

[RileyG]

Probably because you bring your own reverence and the liturgy nurtures it.

Yes, that’s right

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Yes, that’s right

I have been to Masses with what I consider to be awful music but even that did not diminish the ultimate reverence. I can see how for some it, or other things, might ruin their experience of the Mass. But I think that is their issue unless something is really bad.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Big Deal. No one actually speaks at the language, we're all equally unable to understand.

Some of us do know our Latin, from Caesar to Cicero to Ovid. Maybe a bit rusty to translate a Collect on the fly, but able to understand the bulk of the Latin in a Latin mass. It's just not that hard even for someone who never studied it in high school. I mean two year olds mastered it way back when.

It was a historical tragedy that the West has not retained the Latin language. For one thing, lots of the early Lutheran theologians wrote in Latin and to understand them well enough to get beyond our differences from the Reformation IS going to require some Latin.

 

[Bob Crowley]

Well then, in urceo numerum Sanguineorum misceamus, alteram locustam marinam in caminello. "Let's mix up a pitcher of Bloody Marys and put another shrimp on the barbie!"

"nulla sollicitudin! Illa ius maie erit!" which means "No worries! She'll be right mate!"

Otherwise "noli mecum pravi crudum venire!" - "Don't come the raw prawn with me!"

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Some of us do know our Latin, from Caesar to Cicero to Ovid. Maybe a bit rusty to translate a Collect on the fly, but able to understand the bulk of the Latin in a Latin mass. It's just not that hard even for someone who never studied it in high school. I mean two year olds mastered it way back when.

It was a historical tragedy that the West has not retained the Latin language. For one thing, lots of the early Lutheran theologians wrote in Latin and to understand them well enough to get beyond our differences from the Reformation IS going to require some Latin.

Well "way back when" two year olds were immersed in it 24/7. I love it any review grammar and vocabulary whenever I can. But the reality is for an adult with family and work responsibilities' it is an up hill climb if none is not an academic scholar.

But I do agree that since the decline of both Latin and Greek we have lost a great deal. But those goes for humanities also. We are now all about S.T.E.M. We know how to do things but have lost the ability to think about if doing them is wise. With the rise of secularism morality is relative with no firm ground because we do not even have a rational foundation anymore. Most things now are driven by opinion.

We would do well to read a bit of Cicero, Marcus Aurelius, Aristotle and Seneca.

 

[chevyontheriver]

But I do agree that since the decline of both Latin and Greek we have lost a great deal. But those goes for humanities also. We are now all about S.T.E.M. We know how to do things but have lost the ability to think about if doing them is wise. With the rise of secularism morality is relative with no firm ground because we do not even have a rational foundation anymore. Most things now are driven by opinion.

Even S.T.E.M. vocabulary is largely from Greek and Latin roots. I would advocate a special Greek/Latin course or two for S.T.E.M. majors to get the basis to understand the words they will be using in their field.

I guess you and I are making cases for the rejuvenation of teaching Latin.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Even S.T.E.M. vocabulary is largely from Greek and Latin roots. I would advocate a special Greek/Latin course or two for S.T.E.M. majors to get the basis to understand the words they will be using in their field.

I guess you and I are making cases for the rejuvenation of teaching Latin.

It forces us to think more clearly and analytically. Vernacular is taken for granted: subject, object , verb adverb, what they modify, etc.
And that is just the beginning. Then there is the content of the literature studied. I am beginning to think that we need more fundamentals of communication. We are poor communicators except for the pros who use it to manipulate.

https://dn790009.ca.archive.org/0/items/cicerodeoratore01ciceuoft/cicerodeoratore01ciceuoft.pdf

 

[Wolseley]

"nulla sollicitudin! Illa ius maie erit!" which means "No worries! She'll be right mate!"

Otherwise "noli mecum pravi crudum venire!" - "Don't come the raw prawn with me!"

You're quoting from Henry Beard too, aren't you?

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Otherwise "noli mecum pravi crudum venire!" - "Don't come the raw prawn with me!"

I don't even know what that means in English.

 

[Bob Crowley]

You're quoting from Henry Beard too, aren't you?

Who's Henry Beard?

 

[Bob Crowley]

I don't even know what that means in English.

Meanings and origins of Australian words and idioms

slll.cass.anu.edu.au

Today raw prawn is most often heard in the idiom to "come the raw prawn", meaning 'to attempt to deceive, or treat like a fool; to misrepresent a situation'. It is typically used in negative constructions, especially as don't come the raw prawn with me ('don't try to treat me like a fool').

Our Australian version of the English language has lost a lot of older slang terms which is unfortunate as we apparently were colorful speakers. But first movies, then television and now the internet have flattened English into a monochrome hue, particularly when we consider the abbreviations commonly used in phone-speak.

For example if someone was crazy or off their head, they had "Kangaroos in the top paddock".

 

[chevyontheriver]

I don't even know what that means in English.

My Stenopus hispidus does not like the idea that anyone would consider her ‘raw’. She is pinching mad and wants everybody here to know she is not for eating, raw or otherwise. “ Just stop it!” she says.

 

[joymercy]

Let us pray to God for mercy:

Agnus Dei qui tollis peccata mundi: Miserere nobis.
Agnus Dei qui tollis peccata mundi: Miserere nobis.
Agnus Dei qui tollis peccata mundi: dona nobis pacem.

Lamb of God, you who take away the sins of the world, have mercy upon us.
Lamb of God, you who take away the sins of the world, have mercy upon us.
Lamb of God, you who take away the sins of the world, grant us peace.

 

[Bob Crowley]

My Stenopus hispidus does not like the idea that anyone would consider her ‘raw’. She is pinching mad and wants everybody here to know she is not for eating, raw or otherwise. “ Just stop it!” she says.

Why not just go three rounds with her, loser to turn red in a hot pot?

Stenopus hispidus: A Look at a Popular Boxer Shrimp​

 

[chevyontheriver]

Why not just go three rounds with her, loser to turn red in a hot pot?

Stenopus hispidus: A Look at a Popular Boxer Shrimp​

View attachment 350593

To be fair it would have to be three rounds under water. I’d end up cooked.