The New Testament Sabbath Day

[visionary]

Hello Visionary.

You stated that the Father wrote the commandments, and spoke to Moses and Israel.

Jesus stated that this is not true Visionary, Jesus said the following.

John 5
37 And the Father who sent me has himself testified on my behalf. You have never heard his voice
or seen his form.

Moses and all Israel heard God speaking at Mt Sinai, Moses and the seventy elders even saw God.

Jesus has already told you visionary, that the Father never spoke to Israel, Jesus also told you that the
Father was not seen by Moses and the elders.

Again Visionary, Jesus said, 'You have never heard his voice or seen his form'.

Then you said in reply, 'And the Father and are one' hoping to resolve this problem.

This is a direct contradiction of what Jesus said, Visionary. You cannot say that the Father was speaking
to Israel, you are corrupting what Jesus has told us. You cannot convert the OT, God 'YHWH', into both
the Father and the Son, hoping to avoid the clear testimony of the scripture.

Jesus told you that no one has ever heard the Father, your saying Israel heard the Father speaking.
Jesus told you that no one has ever seen the Father, your saying Moses saw the Father.

The fact is visionary, the scripture tells us that Israel heard their creator (YHWH) speaking at Mount Sinai.
The Old Testament never states that 'the Father' is speaking at Mount Sinai, you just assumed that.

The OT is telling us that the 'King of Israel' is the one speaking at Mount Sinai, so who is the King of Israel?

Isaiah 44
6 Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: ‘I am the first and I am the last,
And there is no God besides Me'.

The scripture declares that this 'King of Israel' is the Son, Jesus Christ, in no uncertain terms.

Matthew 27
42 “He saved others; he cannot save himself. He is the King of Israel;

John 1
49 Nathanael replied, “Rabbi, you are the Son of God! You are the King of Israel!”

Isaiah 44
6 Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
‘I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me'.

Who is the King of Israel, because there is no God besides this one and only, King of Israel?

Persevere with me on this thread Visionary.

Alright.... Cool.. That means Yeshua is creator of Torah, which He not only wrote as you declare, stated again that not one dot or tittle will change from it. I like your version... because then we are not dividing God the Father, that mean old law maker, from His Son, the cool guy who saved us from the Law of God.

Just to clarify... I never stated that Moses saw the Father, I stated that the Father wrote it with His finger and His Son Yeshua received it to deliver to Moses.

 

[ebedmelech]

Only we have not yet entered that rest but labor to enter in ...by putting on the yoke of Christ right?

That our rest is yet to come.. Unless it refers to resting from the works of the law which is completed by him

This is just as salvation goes! if you have received Christ you are saved right now...but your ultimate salvation will be when Jesus returns, and you receive your glorified body.

When you receive Christ you enter His rest...but your ultimate rest is eternity.

*Matthew 11:28-30

*Hebrews 4:1-13

 

[visionary]

You can enter into His rest now.

Hebrews 4:
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. 5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. 6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: 7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. 8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from His.

Genesis 2:2
And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and He rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

Hebrews 3:18
And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?

 

[fhansen]

Did you know that during the entire time when the NT was being written, the entire Christian Church throughout the known world observed the Sabbath. And it wasn't Sunday. The Sabbath wasn't just a few proof texts it was something that was woven into the very fabric of the New Testament.
Luke 4 tells us that Jesus, as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day and stood up for to read.
How important was the Sabbath to the Jews of that time. It was of course, the fourth of the Ten Commandments but it was also the heart and core of their covenant with God. the Sabbath lay at the very heart of the identity of their God - Ex 31:12-13
The Sabbath was a sign that identified who their God was.
Changing the Sabbath to another day would be unthinkable. It would be like changing Gods. The Sabbath was created as a perpetual covenant to last forever.
It was not a mere doctrine that could be abandoned if it became inconvenient.
So Jesus kept the Sabbath religiously. But was it His intent to later change this Holy Day of Worship for His disciples and future followers.
Was there a point at sometime Jesus clearly announced the change, and to give a reason for it. All of Jesus' disciples were Jews. and the Sabbath was a part of their life. For 20 years after Christ the early Christian church was composed entirely of Jews
Paul's conversion of Gentiles with their first missionary journey can be found in Acts 13. Throughout the four gospels and up through acts 12 you will not find a word about a controversy over the Sabbath or even a hint of such a monumental change in the day of worship made Holy by God.
It would be hard to imagine that the NT Church of God would keep the Sabbath and then the next week observed Sunday instead-with no explanation, no comment, not even a peep from any of the Apostles. We are to believe that the greatest religious and cultural change in history was made and nobody said one word against it.
The conventional thought is that the crucifixion and resurrection changed everything. however there is nothing in the NT that specifically says so.
There is no real evidence the big change from the Sabbath to Sunday took place in Apostolic times or during the NT writings.
That apostate happened after all the apostles died.
A new church evolved, but it was not going to be like anything Jesus built.

And unlike some other matters of faith, we hear no objection from history, from the early centuries of the church, over this matter. It would've been impossible to cover up protestations against such a potentially controversial issue- yet it was a if there was no controversy.

 

[dfw69]

This is just as salvation goes! if you have received Christ you are saved right now...but your ultimate salvation will be when Jesus returns, and you receive your glorified body.

When you receive Christ you enter His rest...but your ultimate rest is eternity.

*Matthew 11:28-30

*Hebrews 4:1-13

I believe in Christ there is rest from the works of the law too... A Freedom from bondage ... But some people don't believe it to be true ...

 

[ebedmelech]

I believe in Christ there is rest from the works of the law too... A Freedom from bondage ... But some people don't believe it to be true ...

Yes dfw69! There are some who don't understand this because they have been taught by those who equally don't understand it. This is clear with study:

*Acts 15 - Known as "The Jerusalem Council"...the Apostles conclusion is vss 24-29

*Galatians 3

* Ephesians 2:11-22

* Colossians 2

* Hebrews 4, 8, 9, and 10

One has to be persuaded in their own mind. I challenged jacobs well to quote one passage in the NT (after the Gospels), that clearly says "keep the Sabbath"...he can't do it, because it doesn't exist. Yet he wants to persuade others to keep the Sabbath.

 

[geetrue]

I am assuming you are referring to Romans 14.
Interestingly the Sabbath is nowhere mentioned here. In fact the word Sabbath or references to Sabbath-keeping are not found anywhere in the book of Romans. The reference here is simply to day(s), not the Sabbath or any other days of worship and rest commanded by God.
Earlier in the same epistle Paul said " The doers of the law will be justified "-Rom 2:13
" The Law is holy and the commandment holy and just and good"-Rom:7:12
" I delight in the law of God "-Rom 7:22
If Paul was saying here that keeping God's Sabbath was irrelevant and it didn't matter which day you choose then it would be completely inconsistent with his other clear statements in this same letter.
Also, no New Testament writers have ever referred to the Sabbath by such ambiguous phrases as " one day "

I had to prove your wrong of course and go back and do a Word search and find out that you were right about what I said is not in the Bible ...

with that said I searched my own memory of 30+ years of where that came from only to think that it must have come from my early up bringing in body of Christ at Horizon Christian Fellowship is probably where I heard it through the mouth of my pastor.

But is it not true that St Paul was a Jew sent to call and instruct us gentiles into the body of Christ and insist that now that we had begun in the Spirit not to revert back to the law. St Paul said that we did not have to become Jews in order to serve God.

One more thought the Irish as led by St Patrick observed the sabbath day as both saturday and on sunday too for many many years after St Patricks passing.

 

[jacobs well]

Yes dfw69! There are some who don't understand this because they have been taught by those who equally don't understand it. This is clear with study:

*Acts 15 - Known as "The Jerusalem Council"...the Apostles conclusion is vss 24-29

*Galatians 3

* Ephesians 2:11-22

* Colossians 2

* Hebrews 4, 8, 9, and 10

One has to be persuaded in their own mind. I challenged jacobs well to quote one passage in the NT (after the Gospels), that clearly says "keep the Sabbath"...he can't do it, because it doesn't exist. Yet he wants to persuade others to keep the Sabbath.

One question nobody will answer is Where in the New Testament does it say " Thou shalt keep Sunday " ? by either
the Father or the Son-did either of them ever say " Remember to keep holy the first day of the week"?

If God was reading this post-what would He think? How could someone not see that Sabbath-keeping was the norm in the time of His Son's Ministry and Jesus told us to follow Him and do as He did. And His Son told His disciples to teach the world what He taught them. And the apostles told us we are to keep His commandments-1 Jn 2:3, 6. That includes the 7th day Sabbath. You should not follow something that has been turned around by outside influences years afterwards and consider it holy.
1 John 5:3 - " For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments" -This includes the forth commandment
Rev22:14-tells us clearly " Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have a right to the tree of life"
The Sabbath commandment did not have to be repeated in the New Testament over and over again because the people to whom Christ and the apostles preached would never have imagined that it needed to be repeated.
They lived in a Sabbath keeping society.
the examples of Jesus and the apostles observing the Sabbath are the illustrations they left for us to obey

The Catholic church and other denominations have admitted there is nowhere in the Bible that orders the Sabbath be changed from Saturday to Sunday-so why do we follow that false transition?

So which scripture commands us, from our great creator of the 7th day commandment, to now observe the 1 st day of the week as our weekly worship day?
And remember only God can make something Holy.

 

[dfw69]

One question nobody will answer is Where in the New Testament does it say " Thou shalt keep Sunday " ? by either
the Father or the Son-did either of them ever say " Remember to keep holy the first day of the week"?

If God was reading this post-what would He think? How could someone not see that Sabbath-keeping was the norm in the time of His Son's Ministry and Jesus told us to follow Him and do as He did. And His Son told His disciples to teach the world what He taught them. And the apostles told us we are to keep His commandments-1 Jn 2:3, 6. That includes the 7th day Sabbath. You should not follow something that has been turned around by outside influences years afterwards and consider it holy.
1 John 5:3 - " For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments" -This includes the forth commandment
Rev22:14-tells us clearly " Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have a right to the tree of life"
The Sabbath commandment did not have to be repeated in the New Testament over and over again because the people to whom Christ and the apostles preached would never have imagined that it needed to be repeated.
They lived in a Sabbath keeping society.
the examples of Jesus and the apostles observing the Sabbath are the illustrations they left for us to obey

The Catholic church and other denominations have admitted there is nowhere in the Bible that orders the Sabbath be changed from Saturday to Sunday-so why do we follow that false transition?

So which scripture commands us, from our great creator of the 7th day commandment, to now observe the 1 st day of the week as our weekly worship day?
And remember only God can make something Holy.

True ... But then again what is the penalty for breaking the sabbath?

In the New Testament there is no penalty for breaking the sabbath ...

Yet should the sabbath be kept anyways because of traditions ? As long as the law is in forced to condemn a man for breaking the sabbath one should not hold anyone accountable because in doing so you break the commands of Y'shua ... To judge not condemn not

 

[jacobs well]

True ... But then again what is the penalty for breaking the sabbath?

In the New Testament there is no penalty for breaking the sabbath ...

Yet should the sabbath be kept anyways because of traditions ? As long as the law is in forced to condemn a man for breaking the sabbath one should not hold anyone accountable because in doing so you break the commands of Y'shua ... To judge not condemn not

The penalty for breaking the Sabbath is death-eternal death.
I mean what is sin? It's the transgression of the law-1 John 3:4
What law? The Ten commandments. And keeping the Sabbath is the 4th commandment of that law.
Sin is not the transgression of man made religious traditions, it is the transgression of God's law.

What is your basis for believing there is no penalty for breaking the Sabbath in the NT?
God is the only judge that holds us accountable for transgressions against the law.

 

[dfw69]

The penalty for breaking the Sabbath is death-eternal death.
I mean what is sin? It's the transgression of the law-1 John 3:4
What law? The Ten commandments. And keeping the Sabbath is the 4th commandment of that law.
Sin is not the transgression of man made religious traditions, it is the transgression of God's law.

What is your basis for believing there is no penalty for breaking the Sabbath in the NT?
God is the only judge that holds us accountable for transgressions against the law.

I believe that all the sins of sinners who has sinned against the law from Adam till the end of time who put their trust in yshua have been paid for by the shed blood of the lamb of god ..then the law was nailed to the cross.. It is finished completed and accomplished ... The work of God was to obtain the righteousness of the law for the sinners of the entire world to give them the righteousness of the law he has obtained ...it's a gift not by merit but by gods great love for humanity ... Take it run with it its your only do not take your lyberty to sin against your fellow man ..For we all will reap what we sow

 

[jacobs well]

I believe that all the sins of sinners who has sinned against the law from Adam till the end of time who put their trust in yshua have been paid for by the shed blood of the lamb of god ..then the law was nailed to the cross.. It is finished completed and accomplished ... The work of God was to obtain the righteousness of the law for the sinners of the entire world to give them the righteousness of the law he has obtained ...it's a gift not by merit but by gods great love for humanity ... Take it run with it its your only do not take your lyberty to sin against your fellow man ..For we all will reap what we sow

Years after the crucifixion the apostles were still emphasizing the necessity of keeping the 10 Commandments-the Law.
1 John 2:3-6 "...we know Him, if we keep His commandments....we should walk just as He walked (imitate, follow)"
1 Cor 11:1 - " Imitate me, just as I also imitate Christ "
Romans 7:22 - " I delight in the law of God"

As Jesus said " I came not to destroy the law " the apostles express the same veneration and consistently glorify God's law-the 10 commandments.

Rather then eliminating the law,actually, Jesus made the law even more difficult to keep by introducing a more defined spiritual application to the law.

Jesus's death wiped out the penalty we had over our heads(the curse of the law) for our past sins but the law was never annulled. It is still in effect today.

 

[dfw69]

Years after the crucifixion the apostles were still emphasizing the necessity of keeping the 10 Commandments-the Law.
1 John 2:3-6 "...we know Him, if we keep His commandments....we should walk just as He walked (imitate, follow)"

His commandments are referring to Y'shua teachings not the law..do you believe Y'shua is Torah?... If so obey his teachings..judge not condemn not love enemies love sinners love everyone as yourself...fulfill Royal law


If the faith was simply walking in Torah then we miss the whole point of the work of Y'shua ..


many believe the messiah job as messiah is to bring Jew and gentile to serve Torah but messiah work is to fulfill Torah for us all ... And obtain the righteousness which he did... And since he has the righteousness he has received the blessing of the law ... All the promises are his .. He is able to part his wealth with his followers

And since the law condemned him... It will not condemn you if you abide in his commandment Roman 7

1 Cor 11:1 - " Imitate me, just as I also imitate Christ "
Romans 7:22 - " I delight in the law of God"

As Jesus said " I came not to destroy the law " the apostles express the same veneration and consistently glorify God's law-the 10 commandments.

Yes he came to fulfill ..he fulfilled it for us to set us free

Yes we must intimate messiah to judge not condemn not

Rather then eliminating the law,actually, Jesus made the law even more difficult to keep by introducing a more defined spiritual application to the law.

Jesus said my yoke is easy and my burden light .. So that's not correct bro..

Jesus's death wiped out the penalty we had over our heads(the curse of the law) for our past sins but the law was never annulled. It is still in effect today.

Bro this is difficult but I will try to explain my position .. Yes amen the penalty is paid... But not only that the law is dead for you if you cast it off.... But if you place yourself to be entangled again then the law is once again in power over your life and Christ will be voided for your life...

How will the law condemn you ? ... If you put yourself under its power the law becomes binding again... And if you sin again against it there is no more sacrifice for breaking it...understand?

 

[dfw69]

As for Jesus "fulfilling" the Law:
Fulfilling = to teach correctly
Law = Torah = God's Instructions

Meaning:
Jesus taught the Instructions of God correctly.

(Not some crazy idea that since Jesus perfectly obeyed God's Instructions, it abolished God's Instructions to us)

It's not a crazy idea

The Torah was a covenant between man and God ... Every Man sin against the law and is not blessed but cursed by its laws for breaking them.. Man needed a redeemer.. God send his son to pay the penalty of that debt against the law.. It was accomplished

So now man is cleaned by the blood of Jesus ... Now should man continue in the law?...well what if that man sins again against the law again after being clean?... Is there another sacrifice prepared for him for breaking the law again?

 

[jacobs well]

His commandments are referring to Y'shua teachings not the law..do you believe Y'shua is Torah?... If so obey his teachings..judge not condemn not love enemies love sinners love everyone as yourself...fulfill Royal law


If the faith was simply walking in Torah then we miss the whole point of the work of Y'shua ..


many believe the messiah job as messiah is to bring Jew and gentile to serve Torah but messiah work is to fulfill Torah for us all ... And obtain the righteousness which he did... And since he has the righteousness he has received the blessing of the law ... All the promises are his .. He is able to part his wealth with his followers

And since the law condemned him... It will not condemn you if you abide in his commandment Roman 7





Yes he came to fulfill ..he fulfilled it for us to set us free

Yes we must intimate messiah to judge not condemn not



Jesus said my yoke is easy and my burden light .. So that's not correct bro..



Bro this is difficult but I will try to explain my position .. Yes amen the penalty is paid... But not only that the law is dead for you if you cast it off.... But if you place yourself to be entangled again then the law is once again in power over your life and Christ will be voided for your life...

How will the law condemn you ? ... If you put yourself under its power the law becomes binding again... And if you sin again against it there is no more sacrifice for breaking it...understand?

To fulfill means to complete but clearly not abolish. Jesus was explaining how the 10 commandments were to be kept by magnifying the spiritual intent of all the 10 commandments-He fulfilled a prophecy about Himself from Isaiah 42:21

Why would Jesus say if you want eternal life keep my commandments and He named a few to make it clear which law He was referring to-Matt 19.
in Rom 13:9 - Paul continued to teach the 10 commandments to gentile converts and identified some of the commandments to obey, years after the death and resurrection of Jesus.
same with Romans 7:7, and many others.
All of the 10 commandments were preached throughout the New Testament.

When Jesus or the apostles spoke of God's law or of the "commandments" they were speaking of the Ten Commandments-often referring to them specifically to make their point clear -James 2: 10-11
If we sin now (break or transgress the Law) we are to repent and confess our sins to God, so we can be continually be cleansed and forgiven - 1 John 1;9-10

Revelation shows those that kept the commandments will have eternal life.
This is a future understanding.
How do you interpret this?

 

[klutedavid]

Hello JW.

What day is the apostle John referring to below?

Revelation 1:10
I was in the spirit on the Lord’s day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet

 

[dfw69]

Hello JW.

What day is the apostle John referring to below?

Revelation 1:10
I was in the spirit on the Lord’s day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet

Could be the feast of first fruits .. It falls on a particular day

 

[dfw69]

To fulfill means to complete but clearly not abolish. Jesus was explaining how the 10 commandments were to be kept by magnifying the spiritual intent of all the 10 commandments-He fulfilled a prophecy about Himself from Isaiah 42:21

I agree it's not abolished yet .. But I believe one day no one will want to serve the law ...it will have been cast off by all ..and people will have no desire to pick up the law because the knowledge of a better covenant will be as waters cover the sea

Why would Jesus say if you want eternal life keep my commandments and He named a few to make it clear which law He was referring to-Matt 19.
in Rom 13:9 - Paul continued to teach the 10 commandments to gentile converts and identified some of the commandments to obey, years after the death and resurrection of Jesus.
same with Romans 7:7, and many others.
All of the 10 commandments were preached throughout the New Testament.

I don't know for sure if the 10 commandments were carried over into the new covenant but if it did ... It's without penalty ... Is that what you are saying?.... You are not suggesting that the 10 commandments with the penalties are still enforced in the new covenant? That if a man does not keep sabbath he is lost in sin and have no salvation because he does not keep 10 commandments ?

When Jesus or the apostles spoke of God's law or of the "commandments" they were speaking of the Ten Commandments-often referring to them specifically to make their point clear -James 2: 10-11
If we sin now (break or transgress the Law) we are to repent and confess our sins to God, so we can be continually be cleansed and forgiven - 1 John 1;9-10

So if we kill and repent we can still be saved ?...Galatians 6:7

Revelation shows those that kept the commandments will have eternal life.
This is a future understanding.
How do you interpret this?

If you believe keeping the 10 commandments is necessary for your salvation who am I to stand in your way ...just do so with the heart that you never stand in judgement against Anyone... Keep it personal ....do not put the 10 commandments above the law of Jesus to judge not and condemn not..if you do that you do well ...

As for revelation I believe the church who have hidden their life's in him will be taken as Enoch and Elijah was taken

But those left behind have fallen away ... Yet not without hope... And they will be a great revival and many will be saved ... Revelation is speaking about that time

 

[geetrue]

I agree it's not abolished yet .. But I believe one day no one will want to serve the law ...it will have been cast off by all ..and people will have no desire to pick up the law because the knowledge of a better covenant will be as waters cover the sea
I don't know for sure if the 10 commandments were carried over into the new covenant but if it did ... It's without penalty ... Is that what you are saying?.... You are not suggesting that the 10 commandments with the penalties are still enforced in the new covenant? That if a man does not keep sabbath he is lost in sin and have no salvation because he does not keep 10 commandments ?

When pressed about the law by the young rich man that asked how to get to heaven.
What did Jesus say?
He didn't say keep the sabbath day holy and all will go well with you, now did he?

Jesus said the whole law can be summed up in this, "Love the Lord your God with all of your heart, soul, mind and strength"

Jesus doesn't want you to love Him, because you have to obey a bunch of rules.
Jesus wants you to love Him, because He wants to be your best friend.

This is communion Sunday for most believers ... place your Sabbath Day before the Lord.