The Negative Impact of Purity Culture

[Root of Jesse]

Thank you so much for this! I appreciate the warm welcome and your kind comments.

I meant to welcome you to CF as well.

 

[Rebecca Lemke]

I think the purity culture can be taken to the extreme, just as Jewish law (the 613 rules in Leviticus) was meant to make dang sure that you didn't come close to breaking one of the 10 Commandments. Some comments, below:
This is extreme, but it is meant to teach you to guard your heart. The idea is right, the method seems harsh.There are a lot of human ills that can be combated by trusting in the Lord, implicitly.I can see some of this, just as we see marijuana as a gateway drug, handholding, kissing and hugging are gateways to sexual impurity. I think the way this should be seen is "chastity" rather than "purity". Even married people are supposed to be chaste, which means your sexuality belongs to your husband or wife.I've heard this but it's extreme, admittedly.Again, an extreme example. It helps for women to be modest, in order to protect against the thoughts that plague boys and men.Again, I understand this. I wish women at the beach would be more modest. And dressing your feet to help someone else not succumb to their problem isn't a bad idea. Would you set a bottle of rum in front of an alcoholic?
The point of chastity and virginity is to save yourself for a pure moment. Just like you wouldn't wear a wedding dress to every-day functions, or a tuxedo, for men. God cares about your soul, and these desires of the flesh have the potential to rule you, as you can see with the boy who raped his sister...

Thanks for sharing all this!

There is so much here but I just want to mention three things I thought of as I read it.

1. I actually think that most of the intentions behind purity culture were good! But some of them came from a place of pain avoidance and selfishness rather than honoring others and obeying God. That is, one of the ways at least, where things got off track. Overall, I think many parents and leaders meant well. I am actually personal friends with Joshua Harris now, the author of I Kissed Dating Goodbye, and I do not believe he meant to hurt those of us who experienced the kinds of extremes I mentioned. Sexual immorality is a very, very serious thing, and folks at the time were just doing what they thought would help combat a serious issue.

2. Yes, absolutely you are right: do not set a bottle of rum in front of an alcoholic. It is loving for those who know there is an alcoholic to refrain from tempting them. It is also loving for the alcoholic to take the necessary precautions as well. But the way I grew up, you could follow that kind of logic all the way into not leaving the house with a fully dressed baby because pedophiles are out there. Talk about living in fear! All that is to say, I think there needs to be a balance struck.

3. I think it is really important that we, as Christian men and women, realize that the only thing we can control is ourselves. And teach our kids this as well. We do the best we can to honor and love one another as the bible tells us to and then rest in God's grace and mercy, asking for forgiveness when we fail.

 

[Rebecca Lemke]

I meant to welcome you to CF as well.

Thank you kindly! Happy to be here!

 

[~Anastasia~]

I suppose it did! I really just wanted to encourage folks. You can go through purity culture, suffer the ramifications, heal, still be Christian and believe in purity.

When I stumbled upon this place, I was just overjoyed it was being discussed in the first place! It can be such an inflammatory thing, and people often don't understand or listen to one another about it.

I've been working on starting this kind of conversation among Christians for a long time! I've written several posts for major websites like the Federalist and To Love, Honor and Vacuum on it, and published a book.

Well I for one am glad for the perspective you've added to this conversation that I think most of us were unaware of. Though I'm sorry for what you went through. It is something folks should be aware of.

God bless you.

 

[Rebecca Lemke]

Well I for one am glad for the perspective you've added to this conversation that I think most of us were unaware of. Though I'm sorry for what you went through. It is something folks should be aware of.

God bless you.

Thank you so much! I am glad to have been able to add something. I wish I could articulate better what it was like to grow up that way because it was so much more than what I have described. Thank you. <3

God bless you as well.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Thank you so much! I am glad to have been able to add something. I wish I could articulate better what it was like to grow up that way because it was so much more than what I have described. Thank you. <3

God bless you as well.

An added comment would be that, while you now see that aspects of your upbringing had what to you now are negative connotations, I'm sure that in some rather poignant ways you would also be able to identify positive things which are of value to you and - together with honoring your parents - will be a source of good memories for you. Even if you have some matters which bring you regret as a married woman now in another household.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I wonder if I should have let my daughter read "I Kissed Dating Goodbye" - we both read it. But she was at a very impressionable age. I don't recall anything actually problematic in it, but it's been quite a long time and I tend to have a poor memory for the bad parts of movies, books, etc.

I think it was as a result that she herself chose a very modest bathing suit. It was meant to be a UV protection so covered the shoulders and upper arms, and fit like long shorts below, iirc (she had a series of them as she outgrew them). She chose, so I let her. She seemed happy enough as a young teen to do things in groups, though I knew there was one boy she liked better than the others. Nothing came of it. It was always her idea, though I would have stepped in if she had wanted to do anything very inappropriate at that age.

Thank God she came out well enough. She's (unofficially) engaged to a Christian boy. They started out planning marriage after finishing college and getting established in their careers, but as I expected the timeline keeps shortening. It's harder for them to maintain living separate lives anyway. I suspect a ring and a date won't be far off, with actual plans soon to follow.

I'm just a little horrified still at how badly some of these things could be taken. ESPECIALLY that a young lady's full value could be measured in such a way. I know there were shadows of that thought in society at large when I was growing up, and it negatively impacted some. That's terribly sad.

 

[dayhiker]

Rebecca ... That's the most extreme example of purity culture I've heard of. I was older when the purity teaching was so popular. So I could see how extreme it was and how many of the details to me weren't in the Bible. It was interesting to me later when I studied the Stoics that some of the terminology the early church used came from them and not from the Bible.

Thanks for sharing your story.

 

[Rebecca Lemke]

An added comment would be that, while you now see that aspects of your upbringing had what to you now are negative connotations, I'm sure that in some rather poignant ways you would also be able to identify positive things which are of value to you and - together with honoring your parents - will be a source of good memories for you. Even if you have some matters which bring you regret as a married woman now in another household.

I actually do not have many good memories from childhood of much of anything, because there was much more going on than purity culture. Physical, sexual, psychological, and other abuses. It is a big hard to explain. But as a whole, I see the entire story of my first fourteen years, as difficult as they were, as having been orchestrated by God. He truly is a fantastic author.

By fourteen, I had nearly died several times, two of which were by my own hand. My friends had as well. I was on death's doorstep when I met my husband due to different but not unrelated circumstances. But because of everything that happened and who and what he was, God used him to save my life, physically and spiritually. I can see my life set up for him to come into it, and even before he was born, our son's influence saved me as well. I am very blessed.

So while I don't have a lot of great memories, I do have one heck of a story that I am thankful for.

 

[Rebecca Lemke]

I wonder if I should have let my daughter read "I Kissed Dating Goodbye" - we both read it. But she was at a very impressionable age. I don't recall anything actually problematic in it, but it's been quite a long time and I tend to have a poor memory for the bad parts of movies, books, etc.

I think it was as a result that she herself chose a very modest bathing suit. It was meant to be a UV protection so covered the shoulders and upper arms, and fit like long shorts below, iirc (she had a series of them as she outgrew them). She chose, so I let her. She seemed happy enough as a young teen to do things in groups, though I knew there was one boy she liked better than the others. Nothing came of it. It was always her idea, though I would have stepped in if she had wanted to do anything very inappropriate at that age.

Thank God she came out well enough. She's (unofficially) engaged to a Christian boy. They started out planning marriage after finishing college and getting established in their careers, but as I expected the timeline keeps shortening. It's harder for them to maintain living separate lives anyway. I suspect a ring and a date won't be far off, with actual plans soon to follow.

I'm just a little horrified still at how badly some of these things could be taken. ESPECIALLY that a young lady's full value could be measured in such a way. I know there were shadows of that thought in society at large when I was growing up, and it negatively impacted some. That's terribly sad.

I actually read I Kissed Dating Goodbye as an adult. While our communities sort of ran away with it in bad ways, my husband and I both agree that our "courtship" or dating relationship would not have been the same without it, in good and bad ways. I think the most important thing for us was that the decisions and convictions were there before we even got introduced to the book and the concepts within it.

As a quick note, I had a ton of swim dresses and LOVED them! Nothing wrong with them at all.

I wouldn't worry as I am sure she is fine, but it might be fun, informative, and conversation starting for the two of you to watch Joshua's new documentary together about what he thinks of the book all these years later. It should be out in a few months or less. I am excited/apprehensive about it. It will be over at isurvivedikdg.com

Congratulations on the unofficial engagement, that is SUPER exciting!

 

[faroukfarouk]

I actually do not have many good memories from childhood of much of anything, because there was much more going on than purity culture. Physical, sexual, psychological, and other abuses. It is a big hard to explain. But as a whole, I see the entire story of my first fourteen years, as difficult as they were, as having been orchestrated by God. He truly is a fantastic author.

By fourteen, I had nearly died several times, two of which were by my own hand. My friends had as well. I was on death's doorstep when I met my husband due to different but not unrelated circumstances. But because of everything that happened and who and what he was, God used him to save my life, physically and spiritually. I can see my life set up for him to come into it, and even before he was born, our son's influence saved me as well. I am very blessed.

So while I don't have a lot of great memories, I do have one heck of a story that I am thankful for.

God is indeed sovereign; and believers can say in the words of 1 Samuel 7.12: EBENEZER: 'Hitherto hath the LORD helped us'.

 

[Rebecca Lemke]

Rebecca ... That's the most extreme example of purity culture I've heard of. I was older when the purity teaching was so popular. So I could see how extreme it was and how many of the details to me weren't in the Bible. It was interesting to me later when I studied the Stoics that some of the terminology the early church used came from them and not from the Bible.

Thanks for sharing your story.

There are actually folks out there that had it way worse than me, believe it or not! That is so interesting, can you give an example of the terminology? I love learning about this kind of stuff!

You are welcome!

 

[~Anastasia~]

I actually read I Kissed Dating Goodbye as an adult. While our communities sort of ran away with it in bad ways, my husband and I both agree that our "courtship" or dating relationship would not have been the same without it, in good and bad ways. I think the most important thing for us was that the decisions and convictions were there before we even got introduced to the book and the concepts within it.

As a quick note, I had a ton of swim dresses and LOVED them! Nothing wrong with them at all.

I wouldn't worry as I am sure she is fine, but it might be fun, informative, and conversation starting for the two of you to watch Joshua's new documentary together about what he thinks of the book all these years later. It should be out in a few months or less. I am excited/apprehensive about it. It will be over at isurvivedikdg.com

Congratulations on the unofficial engagement, that is SUPER exciting!

Thanks for the info. I'll see if we can talk about it.

She's already thinking about how she wants to raise her own children (and I find her very sober and reasonable in it), so I think she would be interested.

 

[Rebecca Lemke]

Thanks for the info. I'll see if we can talk about it.

She's already thinking about how she wants to raise her own children (and I find her very sober and reasonable in it), so I think she would be interested.

You are welcome. Around the time my son was four months was when I really started thinking about what I wanted to teach him and such, so she is ahead of where I was for considering things!

 

[~Anastasia~]

You are welcome. Around the time my son was four months was when I really started thinking about what I wanted to teach him and such, so she is ahead of where I was for considering things!

Well I don't know that she's thinking about those kinds of things - more early childhood and elementary school age.

But she might still be interested. She probably remembers the book.

 

[Rebecca Lemke]

Well I don't know that she's thinking about those kinds of things - more early childhood and elementary school age.

But she might still be interested. She probably remembers the book.

That makes sense.

 

[JackRT]

The purity culture is very intimately tied up with patriarchy. In patriarchy it is all important that a man be able to pass on his wealth and power to HIS OWN offspring. This means that guarding his own wife from contact with other men is all important. Not only that but the wife's father had to similarly guard his daughter from any man but the future husband. In such a culture "purity" on the part of the woman (daughter or wife) is paramount. There was never any such expectation of purity on the part of a son or a husband. To me, these were cultural expectations that were absorbed uncritically into both Jewish and Christian religious belief and practice.

 

[faroukfarouk]

The purity culture is very intimately tied up with patriarchy. In patriarchy it is all important that a man be able to pass on his wealth and power to HIS OWN offspring. This means that guarding his own wife from contact with other men is all important. Not only that but the wife's father had to similarly guard his daughter from any man but the future husband. In such a culture "purity" on the part of the woman (daughter or wife) is paramount. There was never any such expectation of purity on the part of a son or a husband. To me, these were cultural expectations that were absorbed uncritically into both Jewish and Christian religious belief and practice.

This comment assumes secularist motivation to religious issues; even though there may be an element of accuracy to some of what is said. Overall I don't think it accurately expresses truth from a Christian perspective.

 

[Rebecca Lemke]

The purity culture is very intimately tied up with patriarchy. In patriarchy it is all important that a man be able to pass on his wealth and power to HIS OWN offspring. This means that guarding his own wife from contact with other men is all important. Not only that but the wife's father had to similarly guard his daughter from any man but the future husband. In such a culture "purity" on the part of the woman (daughter or wife) is paramount. There was never any such expectation of purity on the part of a son or a husband. To me, these were cultural expectations that were absorbed uncritically into both Jewish and Christian religious belief and practice.

This is really interesting! It makes sense, socially speaking.

In my experience, what I saw went beyond simply guarding the women to abusing them, physically, mentally, and spiritually, so that we would comply and stay in line.

Domestic abuse was VERY common. And by domestic abuse, I mean nearly every mother I knew had makeup and a pair of sunglasses specifically to cover up bruises and black eyes.

Spiritually, the women were not allowed to pray. Men had to do it for you, either your father or your husband. You were too inferior to pray for yourself.

And emotionally, we were beaten down. We were second class citizens. We had to follow the older man in the room's orders, even if it was a teenage boy asking for a sexual favor. If we didn't comply, we were punished for disobedience to authority, if we did, we were punished for becoming damaged goods. We were taught that women were an afterthought, that God didn't love us, and that we were useless. We existed for men's sexual gratification and as maids, nothing more.

 

[faroukfarouk]

This is really interesting! It makes sense, socially speaking.

In my experience, what I saw went beyond simply guarding the women to abusing them, physically, mentally, and spiritually, so that we would comply and stay in line.

Domestic abuse was VERY common. And by domestic abuse, I mean nearly every mother I knew had makeup and a pair of sunglasses specifically to cover up bruises and black eyes.

Spiritually, the women were not allowed to pray. Men had to do it for you, either your father or your husband. You were too inferior to pray for yourself.

And emotionally, we were beaten down. We were second class citizens. We had to follow the older man in the room's orders, even if it was a teenage boy asking for a sexual favor. If we didn't comply, we were punished for disobedience to authority, if we did, we were punished for becoming damaged goods. We were taught that women were an afterthought, that God didn't love us, and that we were useless. We existed for men's sexual gratification and as maids, nothing more.

I think it's also important to remember where various critiques come from; some critiques of the abuse you went though are from a Biblically warranted perspective; others may be from a secularist perspective which denies Biblical truth. So it won't be surprising if a wide variety of people sympathize with you; but where they are coming from doctrinally is also very important and far reaching.