THE NATURE AND TIMING OF THE RESURRECTION IN BIBLE

keras

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Does that ESV say immortality or eternal life?

John 3:16 16For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
My Revised English Bible says;....eternal life.
But as LLoJ informs us, this is the same as immortality and Jesus does not say when it will be conferred to all who believe in Him. Provided, of course, as we see further on, that we stay strong in that faith during all the testing we must face. 1 Peter 4:12, Hebrews 12:5-12
THEN; at the end of the Millennium, at the final Judgement, the Book of Life will be opened and immortality given to all whose names are found in it. Remember that a name can be erased! Exodus 32:33, Psalms 69:28
 
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Douggg

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My Revised English Bible says;....eternal life.
But as LLoJ informs us, this is the same as immortality and Jesus does not say when it will be conferred to all who believe in Him. Provided, of course, as we see further on, that we stay strong in that faith during all the testing we must face. 1 Peter 4:12, Hebrews 12:5-12
THEN; at the end of the Millennium, at the final Judgement, the Book of Life will be opened and immortality given to all whos names are found in it. Remember that a name can be erased! Exodus 32:33, Psalms 69:28
I think it is best to use the terms used in the text of the bible whenever possible.
 
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keras

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I think it is best to use the terms used in the text of the bible whenever possible.
What is really best, is to believe the Bible truths.
As Jesus said; all who believe in Him, will receive eternal life.
The Bible plainly tells us when this will happen; Revelation 20:11-15 & Revelation 21:1-7
AFTER the Millennium!
 
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DavidPT

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What is really best, is to believe the Bible truths.
As Jesus said; all who believe in Him, will receive eternal life.
The Bible plainly tells us when this will happen; Revelation 20:11-15 & Revelation 21:1-7
AFTER the Millennium!

If you were at least Amil your position might be a bit more plausible. But to think there is a last trump, where in the twinkling of eye, the saved are changed, thus put on bodily immortality, and that this happens a thousand years and a little season after the 2nd coming, that comes off as ludicrous to me that it would happen then rather than at the 2nd coming instead.
 
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keras

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If you were at least Amil your position might be a bit more plausible. But to think there is a last trump, where in the twinkling of eye, the saved are changed, thus put on bodily immortality, and that this happens a thousand years and a little season after the 2nd coming, that comes off as ludicrous to me that it would happen then rather than at the 2nd coming instead.
Sorry, this post is too confused and unintelligible to reply to.
Some, any; Biblical proof of your stance is required.
 
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Douggg

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keras

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Correction:
A person has the Promise of Eternal life when they believe in Jesus.
Those who do not accept Jesus have the Promise of the wrath of God.

Simple really! A few more simple realities would be good for you, Douggg. The first one being; placing the Sixth Seal where it belongs.
 
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BABerean2

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Sorry, this post is too confused and unintelligible to reply to.
Some, any; Biblical proof of your stance is required.


2Th 1:7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Th 1:9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,
2Th 1:10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed.

.
 
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Douggg

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Correction:
A person has the Promise of Eternal life when they believe in Jesus.
Those who do not accept Jesus have the Promise of the wrath of God.

Simple really! A few more simple realities would be good for you, Douggg. The first one being; placing the Sixth Seal where it belongs.
Not a promise in the text, but a reality of state of being.

The chart has the sixth seal where it should be.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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keras said:
Sorry, this post is too confused and unintelligible to reply to.
Some, any; Biblical proof of your stance is required.
2Th 1:7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
.
Perhaps this may make it more clear......:angel:
All kinds of fire being cast down in REVELATION upon 1st century Jerusalem..........

Psalms 104:4
Who makes His angels spirits,
His ministers a flame of fire.

Isa 31:9
He shall cross over to his stronghold for fear, And his princes shall be afraid of the banner,” Says the LORD,
Whose fire is in Zion And whose furnace is in Jerusalem.
====================
Understanding the Book of Revelation: "Recapitulation"

Luke 12:49
Fire I came to be casting upon the Land and any I am willing if already it was kindled.


The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!

Revelation 8:5
And the Messenger has taken the franckincensor, and He crams-full it out of the Fire of the Altar. [Golden Altar of Incense?]

And he casts it into the Land and became thunders and sounds and lightnings and quaking

Revelation 20:9 And they ascended on the breadth of the Land and they surround the camp of the Saints and the City, the One having been loved.

And descended Fire from God out of the Heaven and it devoured them.
=========================
Why Jerusalem is Mystically Called Sodom and Egypt

The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19

Revelation 11:8
And their dead bodies upon the broad-place of the great City which-any being spiritually called Sodom and Egypt, where also/even their Lord was crucified. [Symolizing the Passover Lamb in Egypt?]


Genesis 19:24
Then the LORD rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, from the LORD out of the heavens.
 
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BABerean2

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No, it does not.

Please show us the text of Holford's book which proves the Second Coming found below occurred during 70 AD.


Mat 24:29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

Mat 24:30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


.
 
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DavidPT

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Sorry, this post is too confused and unintelligible to reply to.
Some, any; Biblical proof of your stance is required.


I have already provided Biblical proof in other posts, but apparently you rejected that too. The last trump event precedes the GWTJ event. So unless they are the same event instead, this obviously indicates saints already put on immortality at the last trump, therefore do not need to do it yet again at the GWTJ.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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keras said:
Sorry, this post is too confused and unintelligible to reply to.
Some, any; Biblical proof of your stance is required.
BABerean2 said:
2Th 1:7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Perhaps this may make it more clear......:angel:
All kinds of fire being cast down in REVELATION upon 1st century Jerusalem..........

Psalms 104:4
Who makes His angels spirits,
His ministers a flame of fire.

Isa 31:9
He shall cross over to his stronghold for fear, And his princes shall be afraid of the banner,” Says the LORD,
Whose fire is in Zion And whose furnace is in Jerusalem.
====================
Understanding the Book of Revelation: "Recapitulation"

Luke 12:49
Fire I came to be casting upon the Land and any I am willing if already it was kindled.

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!

Revelation 8:5
And the Messenger has taken the franckincensor, and He crams-full it out of the Fire of the Altar. [Golden Altar of Incense?]
And he casts it into the Land and became thunders and sounds and lightnings and quaking

Revelation 20:9 And they ascended on the breadth of the Land and they surround the camp of the Saints and the City, the One having been loved.
And descended Fire from God out of the Heaven and it devoured them.
=========================
Why Jerusalem is Mystically Called Sodom and Egypt

The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19

Revelation 11:8
And their dead bodies upon the broad-place of the great City which-any being spiritually called Sodom and Egypt, where also/even their Lord was crucified. [Symolizing the Passover Lamb in Egypt?]

Genesis 19:24
Then the LORD rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, from the LORD out of the heavens.
No, it does not.

Please show us the text of Holford's book which proves the Second Coming found below occurred during 70 AD.

.
1st century Jerusalem is shown in Revelation 18........as I have shown to you many times.........

Is earthly Jerusalem the "great city" in the Book of Revelation?
BABerean2 said:
No. and No.
Revelation 18 is modern earthly Jerusalem found in Revelation 11:8, and Revelation 20 is heavenly Jerusalem, described below.
Gotta get rid of the Old Covenant Mount Sinai in order for the New Covenant Mount Zion to flourish...........

The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19


Read Galatians 4:24-25 in relation to Revelation and the OC vs NC............

Faith, Mountain, and Sea Matt 21:21/Mark 11:3


Matthew 21:21
Yet Jesus answering said to them, "amen I am saying to ye, if ever ye may be having Faith, and no ye may be doubting<1252>, not only the of the fig-tree<4808> ye shall be doing,
but even-ever to this Mountain ye may saying, 'Be being lifted up! and be being cast! into the Sea', it shall be becoming"; [Revelation 8:8]

Galatian 4:
24 which things is an allegory.
For these are *the two Covenants, one indeed from mount Sinai into servitude generating who-any is Hagar.
25 For the Hagar mount Sinai is in Arabia is together-elemental yet to now Jerusalem slaving with the offspring of Her.


Revelation 8:8
And the second Messenger trumpets

and as-like a mountain, great to fire burning, was cast into the Sea and became the third of the Sea blood [Matthew 21:21/Galatians 4:24-25/Hebrews 12:18-20]

Hebrew 12:18
For not ye have come toward to being handled a mountain, and to having been kindled to fire and to murkiness and to darkness and to tempest.

19 And of a trumpet blaring and to sound of declarations, of which the ones hearing refused no to be added to them a Word.

22 But ye have come toward to Zion, to a Mountain and City of God, a living Jerusalem, heavenly, to myriads of messengers,
=================================
Revelation 8 Commentary- Plagued by Trumpets

The Roman Assault on Israel Began around the Feast of Trumpets Hence the Seven Trumpets of Revelation

Thus Began the Jewish War.

In A.D. 66 while Judea was aflame in bloodshed, riot and revolt, Rome responded by sending the 12th legion in addition to thousands of auxiliaries from neighboring kingdoms. These troops, as if orchestrated by God, arrived in Jerusalem in the Jewish month of Tishri, a month that begins with the Feast of Trumpets. Called the Day of Judgment, it is on this day that trumpets sound the somber days of atonement and final judgment (Leviticus 23:24, Numbers 29:1).
Thus began the Jewish War.3
The A.D. 70 Doctrine View, Interpretation, Exposition and Commentary of Revelation 8: In Every Event that Fulfills the Seven Trumpets of Revelation an Audible Trumpet Sound Was Heard.
===========================
John 11:48
"If ever we may be letting Him thus, all shall be believing into Him, and shall be coming the Romans and they shall be taking away of Us and the Place and the Nation."

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!

The Roman legions made the most horrid outcries ; the rebels, finding themselves exposed to the fury of both fire and sword, screamed dreadfully ; while the unhappy people who were pent up between the enemy and the flames, deplored their situation in the most pitiable complaints.

Those on the hill and those in the city seemed mutually to return the groans of each other. Such as were expiring through famine, were revived by this hideous scene, and seemed to acquire new spirits to deplore their misfortunes. The lamentations from the city wore re-echoed from the adjacent mountains, and places beyond Jordan.
The flames which enveloped the Temple were so violent and impetuous, that the lofty hill. on which it stood appeared, even front its deep foundations, as one large body of fire.
=================
Visual Timeline of the Roman-Jewish War ARTchive


CAST OF CHARACTERS: Roman: Emperor Nero | General Vespasian | General Titus | The Roman Army || Jewish: General / Historian Josephus | Factional Leaders in Jerusalem || Administrators of Roman Judea Targets: Jerusalem | Herod's Temple // Maps of the Roman Invasion // Theological Timeline

CHRONOLOGY IMMEDIATELY SURROUNDING THE WAR


Stage 1: Murder of James the Just, "Opposition High Priest" ; Irrevocable Split: 62
Stage 2: General Revolt in Jerusalem ; Zealot Occupation of Masada: August-September 66
Stage 3: The Campaign of Cestius Gallus and the Defeat of the Twelfth Legion: October-November 66

Stage 4: End of Collaborative Government, Priesthood ; General Flight: November 66 - March 67
Part 6: Vespasian Subdues Northern and Western Palestine: December 66 - December 68
Part 7: Three-way Power Struggle within Jerusalem After Roman Retreat: January 68 - May 70
Part 8: Romans Breach City Walls and Leave Jerusalem Desolate: May 10 - September 10, 70
============
 
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BABerean2

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1st century Jerusalem is shown in Revelation 18........as I have shown to you many times.........

Your did not answer the question.

Where does Holford show that Matthew 24:29-31 was fulfilled during 70 AD?

I am not interested in what you said.
I am interested what Holford said in his book.


.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Your did not answer the question.

Where does Holford show that Matthew 24:29-31 was fulfilled during 70 AD?
I am not interested in what you said.
I am interested what Holford said in his book.

.
I haven't read his book...........just his commentary.
As I have told you time and time again......1st century Jerusalem is in Revelation
Not sure why you have such a hard time with that.......as it still falls within the realm of orthodox Preterism

This getting way off the topic of this thread, so if you want to discuss Jerusalem in Revelation do it on your thread over here..........

Is earthly Jerusalem the "great city" in the Book of Revelation?
 
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BABerean2

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1st century Jerusalem is shown in Revelation 18........as I have shown to you many times.........

Rev 18:3 For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich through the abundance of her luxury."


Rev 18:9 "The kings of the earth who committed fornication and lived luxuriously with her will weep and lament for her, when they see the smoke of her burning,

Did all the nations, and kings of the earth commit fornication with first century Jerusalem?

Your denial of a future global government, with its capital based in modern Jerusalem, will leave many blind to what is now happening.

A meeting of the World Federalist Association is found below, with commentary from Hillary Clinton.



.
 
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BABerean2

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I haven't read his book...........just his commentary.
As I have told you time and time again......1st century Jerusalem is in Revelation
Not sure why you have such a hard time with that.......as it still falls within the realm of orthodox Preterism

This getting way off the topic of this thread, so if you want to discuss Jerusalem in Revelation do it on your thread over here..........

You are the one making the claim about Holford's book, without reading the book.
It is an excellent book. You should read it sometime.

You are also the one making every thread, and every Bible verse, about 70 AD.


.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Your denial of a future global government, with its capital based in modern Jerusalem, will leave many blind to what is now happening.
.
Typical Dispensationalist Futurist Zionist hogwash.........
I thought you were beyond that, but if you are into that futuristic nonsense, then there are a plethora of threads on CF that you can indulge in:

search one world government christian forums site:www.christianforums.com
About 6,120 results (0.39 seconds)

https://www.google.com/search?q=one...Va0KHZyNCMQQrQIoBDACegQIAhAN&biw=1366&bih=626

Should Christians believe in New World Order One World Government Illuminati Conspira


Should Christians believe in New World Order One World Government Illuminati Conspiracy Theories or not ? What Im trying to ask is should we say that the Anti Christ is already here or will he just appear I always hear Consiracy people say that the Anti Christ is already in control of the World my point is that I believe in the Second Coming of Christ I believe that Israel being a nation is a sign of the End Times but in my view the Anti Christ and or the Real Christ have not appeared yet ?

Bush is a phony Christian

Resistance Manifesto | November 28, 2006
John Conner

Many Christians live in ignorance, thinking it will protect them from the evil in this world. While believing and proclaiming that Jesus will return soon, they seem blind to the fact that the Antichrist isn't just going to pop up out of nowhere and then magically take control of the government and the people. Many Christians fail to see that for generations, the infrastructure and foundation was being built to stage the grand finale.​
========================
Fortune telling from an Amill perspective:

Millennium Now | Preterist Archive


Millennium Now
By David A.J. Seargent MA, Ph.D, FRAS

Prologue

In times of uncertainty, many seek some way to peek beyond the curtain of the future. Ours is an age of much uncertainty, so it is not surprising that we have seen a rise in interest in "future seeing", whether this be occultist fortune-telling, scientific prognostications concerning the greenhouse effect or whatever is the fashionable fear of the moment, or biblical prophecy. The latter, in many cases, is interpreted as applying specifically to our own day and is interpreted such as to give information about what is supposed soon to befall us.

Typically, these attempts at "future seeing" foretell a time of doom and gloom soon to fall upon the world. There may be a distant horizon of hope, but the immediate future looks bleak!

In the pages that follow, we will look again at the key biblical prophesies and attempt to discern just what they are saying to us. Are they really predicting such a bleak future? Or are they telling us that Christ has already overcome and that the future is safe in God’s hands?

It is my belief that the doomsayers have misread much of biblical prophecy and it is my further contention that their gloomy and defeatist interpretations have resulted in a sapping of spirit of the Christian Church.

Unless I am seriously mistaken, the prophesies join with the entire Gospel message in a call, not just to battle but to go out and conquer in the name of Christ until all things are placed under His feet. Christ has won the victory, but much of the Church is cowering in the bomb shelters awaiting the tyranny of Antichrist and the war of Armageddon!

Epilogue

Although eschatology, the doctrine of Last Things, may seem a remote and esoteric subject, it is nevertheless important in determining how one sees the role of the Church and ones own ministry within the Church. If, for example, we believe that the future will become increasingly worse, that human civilization faces destruction in a great war and the Church faces extreme times under the yoke of an antichristian world dictator, or if we simply believe that "this is as good as it gets" — that all prophecy of a coming future Kingdom of the Lord is merely a mythological way of expressing the sense of peace and harmony that Christians should have to one another in the fellowship of the Church, but that the Church itself will forever be a small and defeated minority movement struggling for existence first in a pre-christian, then in a pseudo-christian and finally in a post-christian society, why (we may ask ourselves) should we even try to carry out the Great Commission to make disciples of all nations? Why did Christ give us this command if He knew that we (and He, at least in this world) face inevitable defeat?

If, on the other hand, we believe that God in Christ is better at straightening things out than we are at messing them up; if we believe that St. Paul should be taken seriously when he spoke of Christ ruling until all is placed under His feet; if we really believe in Daniel’s prophecy that the rock not cut by human hands will indeed become a mountain overshadowing all the earth, we must see that we are not merely on the winning side, but on the side that has already won!

Simply to sit back and wait for Christ to come and put all things right, after they get into such a mess that just about everything is destroyed anyway, is not, I believe, the message of the Bible. God has chosen the Church to be His instrument in this world. We, the Church, carry the Sword of the Word with which the risen Christ smites the nations. We are His army and His weaponry here on earth. We are the viceroys through whom He rules until He puts everything under His feet, the last enemy being death itself, and hands the Kingdom over to God in final judgment.
 
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