The Naked Truth vs. The Clothed Lie

[Rev Randy]

As to why the Sabbath is not included.
The Sabbath is the token of the Mosaic Covenant. Some the 8 Covenants of the Scriptures had a token.

Edenic -

Adamic -

Noahic - rainbow

Abrahamic - circumcision

Land -

Mosaic - sabbath day

The Token of the Covenant Seventh: the token or sign of the Mosaic Covenant was the Sabbath. Concerning the Sabbath, five specific observations can be made. First: being the token of the Mosaic Covenant, it was a sign between God and Israel; it was a sign that Israel had been set apart by God (Ex. 31:12-17); it was a sign of the Exodus (Deut. 5:12-15; Ezek. 20:10-12); and it was a sign that Jehovah was Israel's God (Ezek. 20:20). Every reason given for the observance of the Sabbath has relevance only to Israel, not to the Gentiles or the Church.

Above quoted from Arnold Fruchtenbaum

Davidic -

New -

I thank you for your response.
This is a new wrinkle (just an expression don't read anything into it). I read a bit about the doctor but not enough to form an opinion. Seems he's a non-sabbatarian Messianic jew. That's interesting. I'll be doing some reading.

 

[Rev Randy]

Sorry, I'm not a scholar I'm just a student so I would have to look up all of the NT passages that can and should be taken as commandments and are not optional. The sabbath is not a NT requirement. I've learned this thru the ministry of Dr Arnold Fruchtenbaum.

I read Dr.Fruchtenbaum's statement of faith. He shares FW baptist belief almost to a tee. His life story is interesting.

 

[from scratch]

Most Lutherans these day have bought into postmodern reinterpretations of the Scriptures, which for intensive purposes make the Scriptures of non-effect.

And look at who is posting (speaking).

 

[from scratch]

Because Yeshua was of the tribe of Judah He cannot function as our High Priest under the Mosaic Law.
It was therefore necessary that the entire Mosaic Law (of 613 not just 10) be rendered inoperative as the rule of life for the believer today.
According to the scriptures salvation was always by grace apart from the law but the law was to be followed as the rule of life for the regenerated person.
We as Christians are not under Mosaic Law but under the Law of Christ which is not just loving the neighbor as ones self but includes all of the instructions given by the New Testament. By the way 9 of the 10 Commandments have been re added under NT Law.
The Bible teaches us that one of the many purposes of the Law of Moses was to cause men to sin more. This facet of the Law was meant to lead man to seeing his own depravity. The NT Law does not do this and we have a much better position before God than David did. We have the permanent in dwelling of the Holy Spirit and have been given spiritual gifts for the purpose of building upon the foundation of Messiah. To follow Mosaic Law is useful only as an optional observance and keep in mind that observance of the sacrificial portions is forbidden.

Amen on the better position thing.

 

[CFTerminator]

As to why the Sabbath is not included.
The Sabbath is the token of the Mosaic Covenant. Some the 8 Covenants of the Scriptures had a token.

Edenic -

Adamic -

Noahic - rainbow

Abrahamic - circumcision

Land -

Mosaic - sabbath day

The Token of the Covenant Seventh: the token or sign of the Mosaic Covenant was the Sabbath. Concerning the Sabbath, five specific observations can be made. First: being the token of the Mosaic Covenant, it was a sign between God and Israel; it was a sign that Israel had been set apart by God (Ex. 31:12-17); it was a sign of the Exodus (Deut. 5:12-15; Ezek. 20:10-12); and it was a sign that Jehovah was Israel's God (Ezek. 20:20). Every reason given for the observance of the Sabbath has relevance only to Israel, not to the Gentiles or the Church.

Above quoted from Arnold Fruchtenbaum

Davidic -

New -

You would be correct, if it wasn't for the fact that God created and made Holy the 7th day Sabbath in Genesis 2, thousands of years before the time of Moses.

 

[CFTerminator]

Amen on the better position thing.

The writer of the article is inconsistent in his reasoning. God does not change His mind like we do. The 10 moral laws of the 10 Commandments have not changed one iota since the beginning of time.

 

[CFTerminator]

And look at who is posting (speaking).

If Martin Luther were alive today, He would be rebuking the Pope of Rome, just like he did in the 16th century.

 

[intojoy]

The writer of the article is inconsistent in his reasoning. God does not change His mind like we do. The 10 moral laws of the 10 Commandments have not changed one iota since the beginning of time.

I understand why you include the sabbath. For the record tho, you want find anywhere in the New Testament where it is mandated. Keep up the faith

 

[MoreCoffee]

If Martin Luther were alive today, He would be rebuking the Pope of Rome, just like he did in the 16th century.

He's not alive today. And your posts do to speak for him.

 

[intojoy]

He's not alive today. And you're not competent to speak for him.

Wycliffe was a better man than Luther in my opinion.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Wycliffe was a better man than Luther in my opinion.

He too is dead. He did have some odd theories.

 

[intojoy]

He too is dead. He did have some odd theories.

What were they?
I only disliked the anti Semitic part of Luther.
Was Wycliffe guilty of that as well?

Thx

 

[MoreCoffee]

What were they?
I only disliked the anti Semitic part of Luther.
Was Wycliffe guilty of that as well?

Thx

Possibly, such views were very common in his day.

 

[intojoy]

Possibly, such views were very common in his day.

Unquestionably so. However Luther became a vehement anti Semite and will suffer loss for that at the judgment seat of Messiah. Satan is not omniscient and has always responded to the Word of God. When Yeshua was rejected by the leaders of Israel in Mt 12, He announced to them that they must seek him and accept him as the Messiah before he returns as the king.
The Evil One has responded two fold, first as a lion to destroy every Jew from the earth - if there's no Jews then Yeshua can't be king of the Jews. Second satan has come as a deceiver with counterfeit Christianity and that counterfeit church has been responsible for the great majority of Jewish suffering - why should Jews believe in Jesus when his followers put their men, women and children to the sword? Unfortunately Luther didn't realize Satan's strategy. There were many things Luther had right and some very wrong.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Unquestionably so. However Luther became a vehement anti Semite and will suffer loss for that at the judgment seat of Messiah. Satan is not omniscient and has always responded to the Word of God. When Yeshua was rejected by the leaders of Israel in Mt 12, He announced to them that they must seek him and accept him as the Messiah before he returns as the king.

The Evil One has responded two fold, first as a lion to destroy every Jew from the earth - if there's no Jews then Yeshua can't be king of the Jews. Second satan has come as a deceiver with counterfeit Christianity and that counterfeit church has been responsible for the great majority of Jewish suffering - why should Jews believe in Jesus when his followers put their men, women and children to the sword? Unfortunately Luther didn't realize Satan's strategy. There were many things Luther had right and some very wrong.

Speculations about end times and the Jewish/Israeli people aren't directly relevant, are they?

 

[shturt678]

On the other side of the coin we have the wild boar Mr. Luther that uprooted the Cum Postquam of the RCC's Execrable Bull of the Antichrist, ie, I think we all need a bolt of lightening strike; however in my case a small shock as my heart couldn't take the 'big one.' Not a doubt that MoreCoffee can oust the fox from the hen house? Just ol' old Jack.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

What were they?
I only disliked the anti Semitic part of Luther.
Was Wycliffe guilty of that as well?

Thx

Possibly, such views were very common in his day.

From what I've read, virtually all Christians, Catholic, Lutheran, and Reformed held the same opinions for the very same reasons... They could not understand how God's very own chosen people, whom God guided and taught by the Prophets; led out of captivity; gave the promised land; and were the recipients of the prophesies concerning the Messiah, could be so blind to not see the truth of the Gospel.

Unquestionably so. However Luther became a vehement anti Semite and will suffer loss for that at the judgment seat of Messiah. Satan is not omniscient and has always responded to the Word of God. When Yeshua was rejected by the leaders of Israel in Mt 12, He announced to them that they must seek him and accept him as the Messiah before he returns as the king.
The Evil One has responded two fold, first as a lion to destroy every Jew from the earth - if there's no Jews then Yeshua can't be king of the Jews. Second satan has come as a deceiver with counterfeit Christianity and that counterfeit church has been responsible for the great majority of Jewish suffering - why should Jews believe in Jesus when his followers put their men, women and children to the sword? Unfortunately Luther didn't realize Satan's strategy. There were many things Luther had right and some very wrong.

So, you are saying that Luther will burn in Hell?

 

[shturt678]

I'm going for a "default" judgment squeezing myself in the upper parts of hell. Because there is no Truth, ie, less the partial Truth, regarding the essentials of the faith, God nowhere states what He is going to do with those that never seen nor heard naked Truth hence going for the top level in hell by default.

 

[intojoy]

From what I've read, virtually all Christians, Catholic, Lutheran, and Reformed held the same opinions for the very same reasons... They could not understand how God's very own chosen people, whom God guided and taught by the Prophets; led out of captivity; gave the promised land; and were the recipients of the prophesies concerning the Messiah, could be so blind to not see the truth of the Gospel.

So, you are saying that Luther will burn in Hell?

Mark,

We as believers in Messiah are eternally secure in him and cannot lose our salvation.

Paul says that our works will be judged and rewarded with precious stones (Luther's works and all our works that were doctrinally correct), and BBQ weeds and thorns for the ignorant and stupid stuff (like Luther's and all ours as well). If you agree with his vitriol against Jews you too will suffer loss not of salvation but of rewards.

Hopefully I've cleared up my good name. Haha

 

[MoreCoffee]

Mark,

We as believers in Messiah are eternally secure in him and cannot lose our salvation.

A lot of folk make statements such as the above but I wonder if such can be really true given the many warnings spoken by the Lord about falling away or denying him and the many warnings written by saint Paul about the same.

Paul says that our works will be judged and rewarded with precious stones (Luther's works and all our works that were doctrinally correct), and BBQ weeds and thorns for the ignorant and stupid stuff (like Luther's and all ours as well). If you agree with his vitriol against Jews you too will suffer loss not of salvation but of rewards.

Hopefully I've cleared up my good name. Haha