The Myth of Morality

[Zeena]

I thought we were supposed to look at people's fruits to decide whether or not they were nice people.

The Bible clearly sees fruit as a result of salvation. It makes this point in a number of different ways. It pointedly excludes fruit as a cause of salvation. “But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested.” (Romans 3:21) “But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righeousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works.” (Romans 4:5-6) Many other passages make that same point.
How then does it describe good works? As something only believers can do. “without faith it is impossible to please him.” (Hebrews 11:6) Good works are fruits of faith. For example, in John 15 Jesus tells his disciples that they are clean through the word – v. 3. By abiding in him they will bring forth much fruit – v. 5. Notice that the fruit doesn’t make them clean. Because they are clean they can bear much fruit.

According to the Bible, good works spring out after a person is brought to saving faith. They are expressions of gratitude for what God has done. I do good works not because I think they are a requirement that I need to do in order to be accepted by God, but freely and joyfully because God has already accepted me in Jesus.

Probably no place says it better than Ephesians 2:8-10. “For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.”
We are not saved by works but we are saved to do good works. Keeping that straight is vitally important. Mixing that up is tragic. There is a tremendous difference between a root and fruit – between cause and effect. Don’t make the fruit the root.

http://www.gracenotebook.com/pub/340

Yes, sure. It appears to be the most (if not: only) reasonable method, and even the bible seems to share this opinion.

The Bible tells us that we are saved by Jesus. “For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.” (Hebrews 10:14). It further tells us that our works don’t contribute to our salvation. “For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, Not of works, lest any man should boast.” (Ephesians 2:8-9) Romans chapter 4 cites both the example of Abraham and David who had a righteousness not of works.

But then the Bible goes one step further..

“And if by grace, then it is no more of works; otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace; otherwise work is no more work.” (Romans 11:6) “Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.” (Galatians 5:4)

Wow, I think you should win the most complicated answer to a yes or no question award. I did not ask what the rewards of heaven are, I asked if you feel they play a part in the choices that a Christian makes?

Jesus, by His Holy Spirit is the One who plays the part in the choices a yeilding believer makes.

If it's not Him then it's flesh.

 

[jcook922]

You know, I thought I'd take this time to say Zeena scares the crap out of me, and I've been shot at.

 

[cantata]

The Bible clearly sees fruit as a result of salvation. It makes this point in a number of different ways. It pointedly excludes fruit as a cause of salvation.

<snip>

Yes yes, that's quite enough. I know that works are not supposed to be enough to save you. But they are supposed to be an indicator of what's on the inside.

 

[Zeena]

Yes yes, that's quite enough. I know that works are not supposed to be enough to save you. But they are supposed to be an indicator of what's on the inside.

That's good that you know that Cantata!

And yes, they are.

But for a newborn babe in Christ, not [yet] knowing what they've recieved when they've recieved JESUS, works are definately NOT a good indication of Salvation.. :o

John 16:3
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

John 16:14
He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

2 Corinthians 5:15-17
And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again. Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

 

[Zeena]

You know, I thought I'd take this time to say Zeena scares the crap out of me, and I've been shot at.

Revelation 14:6-7

And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

You can TRUST JCook, just as I have!
You have a choice this day!!!The promise of Eternal Life can be yours by reaching out to Jesus in faith!

 

[The Nihilist]

Yes yes, that's quite enough. I know that works are not supposed to be enough to save you. But they are supposed to be an indicator of what's on the inside.

Isn't it odd, then, that the only criterion used to determine who goes to heaven and who goes to hell is good works? At least, that's the case in Matther 25:31-46. Or is Jesus lying?

 

[Zeena]

Isn't it odd, then, that the only criterion used to determine who goes to heaven and who goes to hell is good works? At least, that's the case in Matthew 25:31-46. Or is Jesus lying?

Consider THE DANGER OF FALSE ASSURANCE. Before exploring the Scriptures about security, we acknowledge that many people who think that they are Christians are not truly saved. This conclusion is based on Christ's warning in the Sermon on the Mount: "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it ... Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'" (Matt. 7:13-14,22-23). It would be tragic to have FALSE assurance and no salvation!

What is the difference between merely professing faith and really possessing faith? Saving faith opens the heart's door to the indwelling of God's Holy Spirit (Rom. 8:9; Cf. John 1:12). The Holy Spirit's presence will be evidenced by the believer's good works and continued faith (James 2:14-19; Col. 3:23). Children of God have His love for their brothers and sisters in Christ (1 John 4:7-16). [1]
So, going forward at a meeting, praying a sinner's prayer, even being water baptized, does not prove someone is converted to Christ. Repentance is the "flip side of the coin" of saving faith in Christ (Acts 17:30). It involves conviction of our guilt before a holy God, our inability to save ourselves, and a cry for mercy to escape hell. There is a cost to following Christ, but it costs more to NOT follow Him! (Luke 9:23,57-62)
Some identify themselves as Christians, but their departure from the faith reveals that they never were born again. As the apostle John put it, "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us" (1 John 2:19; Cf. John 3:3).

Let's not miss this: good works are the FRUIT of salvation, not the ROOT. We are NOT saved by a mixture of faith and works of merit; we are saved by Grace through FAITH plus zero! "But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness" (Rom. 4:5; Cf. Eph. 2:8,9). We are to fully depend upon Christ for salvation, not ourselves or a church. In light of this, "Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize yourselves, that Christ Jesus is in you? --unless, of course, you fail the test?" (2 Cor. 13:4-5 NIV; Cf. 2 Pet 1:10).

Source --> http://www.gracenotebook.com/pub/220

 

[The Nihilist]

You can say what you want, but in the passage I've cited, God only has two hands, and people are divided by their works alone. There's nothing about sin, nothing about faith, it's just works.
It seems to me that Paul's later claims that faith is primary are irreconcilable with the passage from Matthew

 

[Zeena]

You can say what you want, but in the passage I've cited, God only has two hands, and people are divided by their works alone.

No, you are using one passage of Scripture to qualify the rest based upon what you believe. This is called 'proof-texting' and it is a grievious error when attempting to study the Scripture.

Let Scripture interpret Scripture is the rule of thumb when it comes to understanding the message.

There's nothing about sin, nothing about faith, it's just works.

You seem quite content to exclude the entirety of Scripture in your study.

Work Out Your Own Salvation
By John Woodward
January 4, 1999


I saw a couple walking to the shore of Lake Ontario a few days ago with ice skates, eager to enjoy the winter with some skating. I was surprised at the sight because I didn't think we had had enough freezing weather to have thick ice. To enjoy skating, one needs to be confident in the strength of the ice! Likewise, to progress in the life of discipleship one needs to be assured of personal salvation--based upon the strength of God's promises.
The apostle Paul wrote," . . . work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure. " (Phil 2:12,13). At first glance this seems to jeopardize our assurance (like a "crack" under the ice skates!). What does it mean to "work out your salvation"?
First let's examine what the verse does NOT mean. It does not teach that salvation from sin's penalty is a life-long process. Consider Jesus' promise, "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life."(John 5:24). Notice the past tense--"has passed". Conversion to Christ places one into God's family by grace through faith.
Jesus referred to this step of commitment as "the new birth". As he said to the religious leader Nicodemus,"Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." (John 3:3). The Christian life is a process of maturing in the faith after the new birth, not a continual attempt to achieve a right standing with God (1 Pet 1:22-2:2).
Also, Paul is NOT implying that our works have a part in meriting our salvation. In the following chapter in Philippians he strongly emphasizes that "we have no confidence in the flesh"(3:3). After listing his credentials of self-righteousness, Paul testified that he reckoned them worthless in gaining eternal life (3:8). Instead, he trusted fully in Christ's redemption, "and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith." (Phil 3:9).
When commenting on Phil 2:12, Oswald Chambers wrote, "You have to work out with concentration and care what God works in; not WORK your own salvation, but WORK IT OUT, while you base resolutely in unshaken faith on the complete and perfect Redemption of our Lord." ( My Utmost For His Highest, June 6)
What we ARE exhorted to do is to verify our personal faith in Christ. As Paul warned the Corinthians, "Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you? --unless indeed you are disqualified."(2 Cor 13:5). How do we "test ourselves"?
1. Be certain that you have repented and fully trusted Christ as your personal Lord and Savior (Rom 10:9,10; John 1:12)
2. Grow in the grace and knowledge of Christ (2 Pet 3:18). All living things grow! As the apostle Peter counseled,"Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble." (2 Peter 1:10).
As we demonstrate the reality of our faith by love and good works we gain SUBJECTIVE assurance (subjective= having to do with personal experience-James 2:14-26; 1 John 2:3). Our OBJECTIVE assurance (having to do with propositional truth) is based on the unfailing promises of God. "In hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began."(Titus 1:2). "These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life." (1 John 5:13).
As you confirm your commitment to Christ be assured that "God works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure."

Father, use these Scriptures to encourage us to confirm that our faith is personal and genuine. May we gain assurance by resting on the precious promises of Your Word. In Jesus' gracious name, amen.
JBW January 4, 1999 Vol. 2 # 1

Source --> http://www.gracenotebook.com/pub/144

It seems to me that Paul's later claims that faith is primary are irreconcilable with the passage from Matthew

James 2:20
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Amazing Grace
By John Woodward
May 4, 1998


The grace of God that saves us is amazing. The grace of God that is essential for Christian living is also amazing! "As you have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, (by grace, through faith) so walk in Him" (by grace , through faith) ! (Col 2:6).
Grace is the modus operandi of the Christian life. Grace has been defined as "the desire and power to do God's will with joy". And where does it come from? " For it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." (Phil 2:13).
True believers have grace-based sanctity : " For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age... (Titus 2:11-12).
We have grace-based identity : " But by the grace of God I am what I am. (1 Cor 15:10a).
We have grace-based ministry : . . . "and His grace toward me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all, yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. (1 Cor 15:10b).
We have grace-based sufficiency : "My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness." (2 Cor 12:9a).
God has blessed us with an abundance of grace " For if by the one man's offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ."(Rom 5:17).
F.B Meyer wrote, "There is no limit to the abundance of God's supply -- it abounds! . . . The result of receiving more and more out of God's fullness, is that we reign, not in the future life, but in this. Ours becomes a royal, a regnant, a triumphant life. This glorious life in which we are daily victorious over sin, daily using and scattering the unsearchable riches of Christ, daily helping others up to the throne-life, is within the reach of every reader of these words. He has made every provision for it, and is at this moment urging you to enter upon it. The only thing for you to do is receive the abundance of His grace and the gift of righteousness. Open your heart and life and He will fill it; dare to believe that He has filled it, even though you don't feel it; and go forth to live a royal life, distributing the largess of His royal bounty! "
JBW May 4, '98

Source --> http://www.gracenotebook.com/pub/108

 

[The Nihilist]

My point is that the verses contradict each other. You've done a fine job of citing those contradicting points, but you've failed to combine them. You have to explain why, in Matthew, God only uses only good works in determining who goes to heaven.

I'm an atheist, dollface. I don't believe any of this.

 

[cantata]

Isn't it odd, then, that the only criterion used to determine who goes to heaven and who goes to hell is good works? At least, that's the case in Matther 25:31-46. Or is Jesus lying?

Heh, I know.

What is faith but a work, anyway?

 

[quatona]

Heh, I know.

What is faith but a work, anyway?

A gift from god?

 

[cantata]

A gift from god?

*grin*

Then why doesn't everyone get it?

 

[WorldIsMine]

Can you explain how you're defining "meaningless"?
The statements are devoid of cognitive content. The words, as defined or used commonly, do not form a coherent and non-contradictory statement.

For example, are metaphors meaningless?
Not if they are understood metaphorically, but this is not the claim that moralists make. If they did, they would cease to be moralists.

What about metaphors that people have forgotten are metaphors? (Much of our everyday language is metaphorical.)
I would say that it is more accurate to say that English is idiomatic.

Otherwise we generally agree.

 

[Zeena]

Heh, I know.

What is faith but a work, anyway?

A gift from god?

Close, but no cigar..

It is not a gift from God, but the gift OF God in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 2:8-9

8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

*grin*

Then why doesn't everyone get it?

Because you refuse Him, who's faith it is!

 

[cantata]

Close, but no cigar..

It is not a gift from God, but the gift OF God in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 2:8-9

8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

No, you didn't understand the question.

Why is faith - believing something in a particular way - different from any other kind of work? Why doesn't it count as a work? It's all very well saying works won't save you, but you still have to do something particular in order to be saved. You've just renamed it from "work" to "faith", but it doesn't change the fact that it's a criterion for getting saved (and a really arbitrary one at that - why is believing something the thing you have to do to get saved? It excludes millions of people through no fault of their own).

Because you refuse Him, who's faith it is!

So, hang on, it's God who's supposed to have faith, not me? I'm sure that's not right!

 

[Zeena]

No, you didn't understand the question.

No, but rather, you did not receive the answer.

Why is faith - believing something in a particular way - different from any other kind of work?

Because it's not a work, but a gift.

Why doesn't it count as a work?

Because it's the gift of God in Christ Jesus.

John 4:10
Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

It's all very well saying works won't save you, but you still have to do something particular in order to be saved.

Passive Righteousness
By Martin Luther
October 24, 2003

"Passive Righteousness"

["Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified." Galatians 2:16, NKJV.] [1]

The most excellent righteousness of faith, which God through Christ, without any works, imputes to us, is neither political, nor ceremonial, nor the righteousness of God's law, nor consists of works, but is absolutely contrary to these; that is to say, it is a mere passive righteousness, as the others are active. For in the righteousness of faith, we work nothing, we render nothing unto God, but we only receive, and allow another to work in us--namely, God. Therefore it seems good unto us to call this righteousness of faith, the "passive righteousness."[2] This is a righteousness hidden in a mystery, which the world does not know, even Christians themselves do not thoroughly understand it, and can hardly take hold of it in their temptations. Therefore it must be diligently taught, and continually practiced. And whoever does not understand or apprehend this righteousness, in afflictions and terrors of conscience, will eventually be defeated. For, there is no comfort of conscience so firm and sure, as is this passive righteousness [Rom. 4:5; 5:1; Eph. 2:8,9].

For the troubled conscience, in view of God's judgment, has no remedy against desperation and eternal death, unless it takes hold of the forgiveness of sins by grace, freely offered in Christ Jesus, which is this passive faith, or Christian righteousness; which if it can apprehend, then it may be at rest, and can boldly say: "I seek not active or working righteousness, for if I had it, I could not trust in it, neither dare I set it against the judgment of God. Then I abandon myself from all active righteousness, both of my own and of God's law, and embrace only that passive righteousness, which is the righteousness of grace, mercy, and forgiveness of sins."[3] [Phil. 3:8,9]

Briefly, I rest only upon that righteousness, which is the righteousness of Christ and of the Holy Spirit. The greatest knowledge, and the highest wisdom of Christians is, to not know the law, to be ignorant of works, and of the whole active righteousness, especially when the conscience wrestles with God. The opposite is the case with those who are not of God's people; the greatest wisdom in their case is to know and to urge the law and the active righteousness ...[Gal. 3:24; Rom. 3:19,20]

This is our divine ministry, whereby we teach how to distinguish between these two kinds of righteousness, active and passive, with the goal that manners and faith, works and grace, policy and religion, should not be confused, or taken the one for the other. Both are necessary; but must be kept within their limits; Christian righteousness pertains to the new man, and the righteousness of the law pertains to the old man, which is born of flesh and blood. Upon this old man, as upon a donkey, there must be laid a burden that may press him down, and he must not enjoy the freedom of the spirit of grace, except he first put upon him the new man, by faith in Christ ..., then may he enjoy the kingdom and inestimable gift of grace. [Titus 1; 3:5] ~~~~ Grace Notes Oct. 24, 03

[1] This excerpt is from the introduction in the Commentary on Galatians by Martin Luther (1483-1546), published in 1979 by Kregel Publications. Translation by Erasmus Middleton, edited by John Prince Fallowes. A reprint of the 1850 edition published by the Harrison Trust, London. Reprinted in the appendix of From Fear to Freedom: Living as Sons and Daughters of God, by Rose Marie Miller (Shaw: 1994). Updated English with additional editing by John Woodward. The title, "Passive Righteousness" was added by the editor.

[2] "Passive righteousness" refers to justification by faith--one of the central truths of the Protestant Reformation. It required the active obedience of Christ, His sacrificial death and resurrection. This right standing with God is received by grace through faith ("passive" in the sense of not being earned by man's works) and secures a spiritual rebirth (regeneration).

[3] "Active righteousness" is used in the sense of self- righteousness (the vain attempt to gain acceptance with God by personal effort). See the parable of The Pharisee and the Tax Collector in Luke 18:9-14
[FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif]Passive Righteousness Part 2[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif]["Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage ... For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love ... For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another." Galatians 5:1,6,13, NKJV. ][1][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif]So, are we not required to do anything? Do we work nothing to obtain this righteousness? I answer, Nothing at all. For this is perfect righteousness, to do nothing, to hear nothing, to know nothing of the law, or of works, but to know and believe this only, that Christ is gone to the Father, and is not now seen; that He sits in heaven at the right hand of His Father, not as judge, but made unto us of God, wisdom, righteousness, holiness and redemption. In summary, He is our high priest interceding for us, and reigning over us, and in us, by grace. In this heavenly righteousness sin can have no place, for there is no law; and where no law is, there can be no transgression (Rom. 4:15). Seeing then that sin has no place here, there can be no anguish of conscience, no fear, no heaviness. Therefore St. John says (1 John 5:18): "He that is born of God cannot sin."[Rom. 4:5; 1 Cor. 1:30][2][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif]... So both these [kinds of righteousness] continue while we live here. The flesh is accused, exercised with temptations, oppressed with heaviness and sorrow, bruised by its active righteousness of the law; but the spirit has reigned, rejoiced, and is saved by this passive and Christian righteousness, because it knows that it has a Lord in Heaven, at the right hand of His Father, who has abolished the law, sin, death, and has trodden under His feet all evils, led them captive, and triumphed over them in Himself (Col. 2:15) ...[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif]Let us diligently learn to discern between these two kinds of righteousness, that we may know how far we ought to obey the law. We have said before that the law in a Christian ought not to pass its limits, but ought to have dominion only over the flesh, which is in subjection to it, and remains under it. But if it shall presume to creep into the conscience, and there seek to reign, see that you play the cunning logician, and make the true division. Say: "0 law, you would climb up into the kingdom of my conscience, and there convict it of sin, and take from me the joy of my heart, which I have by faith in Christ, and drive me to desperation that I may be without hope, and utterly perish. Keep within your limits, and exercise your power upon the flesh: for I am baptized, and by the gospel am called to the partaking of righteousness and everlasting life."[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif]When I have Christian righteousness reigning in my heart, I descend from heaven as the rain makes fruitful the earth; that is to say, I do good works, how and wherever the occasion may arise. If I am a minister of the Word, I preach, I comfort the broken-hearted, I administer the sacraments [ordinances]. If I am a house holder, I govern my house and family well, and in the fear of God. If I am a servant, I do my master's business faithfully. To conclude, whoever is assuredly persuaded that Christ alone is his righteousness, does not only cheerfully and gladly work well in his vocation, but also submits himself through love to the rulers and to their laws, yes, though they be severe, and, if necessity should require, to all manner of burdens, and to all dangers of the present life, because he knows that this is the will of God, and that this obedience pleases Him.[3] This is the substance of the argument of the Epistle, whereby Paul addresses this, responding to problem of false teachers who had darkened this righteousness of faith among the Galatians, against whom he sets himself in defending and commending his authority and office.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif]~~~~[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif][1] This excerpt is from the introduction in the Commentary on Galatians by Martin Luther (1483-1546), published in 1979 by Kregel Publications. Translation by Erasmus Middleton, edited by John Prince Fallowes. A reprint of the 1850 edition published by the Harrison Trust, London. Reprinted in the appendix of From Fear to Freedom: Living as Sons and Daughters of God, by Rose Marie Miller (Shaw: 1994). Updated English with additional editing by John Woodward. The title, "Passive Righteousness" and bracketed references were added by the editor. The commentary is available online at http://www.ccel.org[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif][2] Although the Holy Spirit will continue to convict the believer of sin, this will not bring condemnation or jeopardize the position and essential nature of the child of God (Rom. 8:1).[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif][3] The Spirit-filled life fulfills the moral requirements of the law, which are summarized in the calling to love God and others (Rom. 8:4; 13:8-10) [/FONT]

You've just renamed it from "work" to "faith",

No, it is you who have renamed faith as a work. This is not the truth of the matter, for it is the gift of God.

but it doesn't change the fact that it's a criterion for getting saved (and a really arbitrary one at that - why is believing something the thing you have to do to get saved?

How can you receive unless you believe?

If you believe a dillapidated and condemned house will be useless in protecting you from the wind and the rain, will you enter it?

It excludes millions of people through no fault of their own).

The gift is there, and His Name is Jesus, for all who are willing, come.

So, hang on, it's God who's supposed to have faith, not me? I'm sure that's not right!

Not that He's supposed to, but that He does, because He is.

Psalm 146
Praise ye the LORD. Praise the LORD, O my soul. While I live will I praise the LORD: I will sing praises unto my God while I have any being. Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.
His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
Happy is he that hath the God of Jacob for his help, whose hope is in the LORD his God: Which made heaven, and earth, the sea, and all that therein is: which keepeth truth for ever: Which executeth judgment for the oppressed: which giveth food to the hungry. The LORD looseth the prisoners: The LORD openeth the eyes of the blind: the LORD raiseth them that are bowed down: the LORD loveth the righteous: The LORD preserveth the strangers; he relieveth the fatherless and widow: but the way of the wicked he turneth upside down. The LORD shall reign for ever, even thy God, O Zion, unto all generations. Praise ye the LORD.

2 Timothy 2:13
If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

 

[cantata]

Because it's not a work, but a gift.

Then why doesn't everyone have it, if the ability to believe this particular thing is a gift rather than a work? Why are some (most) people excluded?

 

[stan1980]

Heh, I know.

What is faith but a work, anyway?

I must be being a little bit thick here, but what exactly is "a work"?

 

[Zeena]

Then why doesn't everyone have it, if the ability to believe this particular thing is a gift rather than a work? Why are some (most) people excluded?

John 3:20-21
For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, and cometh not to the light, lest his works should be reproved. But he that doeth the truth cometh to the light, that his works may be made manifest, that they have been wrought in God.

I must be being a little bit thick here, but what exactly is "a work"?

Something that is done. Could be something God does, or you.

Romans 1:17-19
For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

Hebrews 11:6
And without faith it is impossible to be well-pleasing unto him; for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that seek after him. And without faith it is impossible to be well-pleasing unto him; for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that seek after him.