The most important message - Why trust us?

[mmarco]

Thank you for your reply.

The eye witnesses of the time have the advantage of seeing things for themselves, whereas we must rely on what has been passed through generations and translated.

Actually God has made many other signs and miracles through history, if this is what you mean. Personally, I think that the well recorded miracle is the miracle of the sun of Fatima, occurred in October 1917 when a crowd of 70000 people had seen the sun dancing in the sky for some minutes. Consider that the miracle of the sun at Fatima is quoted also in many different secular encyclopedias, such as the Britannica encyclopedia, where at the item Fatima I have found:

village and sanctuary, Vila Nova de Ourém municipality, Santarém district, central Portugal; it is located on the tableland of Cova da Iria, 18 miles (29 km) southeast of Leiria. Fátima was named for a 12th-century Moorish princess and since 1917 has been one of the greatest Marian shrines in the world, visited by thousands of pilgrims annually. On May 13, 1917, and in each subsequent month until October of that year, three young peasant children, Lucia dos Santos and her cousins Francisco and Jacinta Marto, reportedly saw a lady who identified herself as the Lady of the Rosary. On October 13, a crowd (generally estimated at about 70,000) gathered at Fátima witnessed a "miraculous solar phenomenon" immediately after the lady had appeared to the children.

The story of the miracle of the sun was reported also on pro-government, pro-atheist and anticatholic journals (since 1910, the portuguese government had started a strong battle against the Catholic Church)
The story was reported also on pro-government, pro-atheist and anticatholic journals; the article, published with the title "Terrifying Event! How The Sun Danced In The Sky Of Fatima" can be found on the site.

www.ewtn.com/fatima/apparitions/October.htm

In his article, the journalist describes a crowd of biblical dimensions, spread in the fields of Fatima. At a certain point, this immense crowd begins to cry "Miracle! Miracle!" looking at the sun. The journalists describes then an amazed crowd, who cry and pray.

An important aspect of the miracle is that the exact place, date and hour of the miracle was predicted by a child many monthes before.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Hi to everyone reading this. I've recently began learning about Christianity. I believe a God exists and created us but I am seeking answers in relation to my skpeticism with Christianity.

I'll provide some background to my question first.

I've watched various debates between Christians v Muslims & Christians v Atheists. One of the most impressive for knowledge is Bart Ehrman and I'm disappointed that I can't find a debate on the resurrection between him and Gary Habermas because I really like both of them.

Some of the things that are brought up often in Ehrman debates are the changes and sometimes additional verses and stories to the Bible that weren't in the oldest known manuscripts, but are in the manuscripts that are carbon dated to be centuries later. This is also something that is acknowledged by other Christians, such as Mike Licona.

So to my question... We know that humans are prone to mistakes, dishonesty, corruption, and forgetting things.

Why would God trust humans, with the most imporant message mankind would ever receive, to hold that message and deliver it accurately to other civilisations of their own time and future generations without mistakes, changes, or corruptions?

Please bare in mind, I'm not attacking at all so if it comes across that way I apologise. Also, if anyone has any sources where scholars have answered this question already I'd really apprecaite it. I've tried searching google but I don't get much success when searching things about Christianity.

If God did not trust human with this, who do you suggest he trust instead? And it doesn't sound like attacking, by the way.

Additional stories or texts were written long after the New Testament era was gone and were deemed uninspired. I have read a few of these and one can tell that they do not belong to the Bible. Some were written in the middle ages, 100s of years after the events but supposedly describing them. They are often declared fake, but they are available to read so no one is covering them up.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Epoh, do you put the praying icon up because you think I am beyone human help? That is fairly insulting. I pray you learn not to use what is there for a kind response instead of lacking the courage to speak to people.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Actually God has made many other signs and miracles through history, if this is what you mean. Personally, I think that the well recorded miracle is the miracle of the sun of Fatima, occurred in October 1917 when a crowd of 70000 people had seen the sun dancing in the sky for some minutes. Consider that the miracle of the sun at Fatima is quoted also in many different secular encyclopedias, such as the Britannica encyclopedia, where at the item Fatima I have found:

village and sanctuary, Vila Nova de Ourém municipality, Santarém district, central Portugal; it is located on the tableland of Cova da Iria, 18 miles (29 km) southeast of Leiria. Fátima was named for a 12th-century Moorish princess and since 1917 has been one of the greatest Marian shrines in the world, visited by thousands of pilgrims annually. On May 13, 1917, and in each subsequent month until October of that year, three young peasant children, Lucia dos Santos and her cousins Francisco and Jacinta Marto, reportedly saw a lady who identified herself as the Lady of the Rosary. On October 13, a crowd (generally estimated at about 70,000) gathered at Fátima witnessed a "miraculous solar phenomenon" immediately after the lady had appeared to the children.

The story of the miracle of the sun was reported also on pro-government, pro-atheist and anticatholic journals (since 1910, the portuguese government had started a strong battle against the Catholic Church)
The story was reported also on pro-government, pro-atheist and anticatholic journals; the article, published with the title "Terrifying Event! How The Sun Danced In The Sky Of Fatima" can be found on the site.

www.ewtn.com/fatima/apparitions/October.htm

In his article, the journalist describes a crowd of biblical dimensions, spread in the fields of Fatima. At a certain point, this immense crowd begins to cry "Miracle! Miracle!" looking at the sun. The journalists describes then an amazed crowd, who cry and pray.

An important aspect of the miracle is that the exact place, date and hour of the miracle was predicted by a child many monthes before.

No other location on the planet saw the sun do as described. That tells us the source of this event.

 

[mmarco]

No other location on the planet saw the sun do as described. That tells us the source of this event.

Of course, the miracle does not consist in a physical movement of the sun, but in a collective vision of the crowd present at Fatima; in fact, the child Lucia predicted that the miracle would have been seen in that specific location.

 

[Hawkins]

Why would God trust humans, with the most imporant message mankind would ever receive, to hold that message and deliver it accurately to other civilisations of their own time and future generations without mistakes, changes, or corruptions?

Because it is the only way which works.

As an analogy, if aliens do exist how would you know? If aliens are far more advanced and they have a good reason to hide from humans, then the only way humans can get to know their existence is by means of those happened to encounter them. The testimonies of these eyewitnesses will be the only way for the rest of human kind to get to know the aliens' existence.

Similarly if God has a good reason to hide behind, the only way humans can get to know His existence is by means of those encountered Him. These eyewitnesses are the chosen prophets mostly from God's explicitly chosen people. Their testimony formed the Bible we read today.

Of course, the only better way for God's truth to convey is for God to show up openly to tell each and every single human about His existence. This however won't work as in the end the covenant between God and men says that humans need faith to be saved. If God shows up publicly it simultaneously means humans are no longer savable. If on the other hand He doesn't show up at all, then no humans can get to know His existence with His covenant granted to humans. The one and only way which works is for God to show up to His own chosen eyewitnesses (which is His prophets) and for their testimonies to convey among the rest of human kind.