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The most important message - Why trust us?

Discussion in 'Exploring Christianity' started by _epoh_, May 4, 2021 at 3:11 PM.

  1. _epoh_

    _epoh_ New Member

    4
    +3
    United Kingdom
    Seeker
    Private
    Hi to everyone reading this. I've recently began learning about Christianity. I believe a God exists and created us but I am seeking answers in relation to my skpeticism with Christianity.

    I'll provide some background to my question first.

    I've watched various debates between Christians v Muslims & Christians v Atheists. One of the most impressive for knowledge is Bart Ehrman and I'm disappointed that I can't find a debate on the resurrection between him and Gary Habermas because I really like both of them.

    Some of the things that are brought up often in Ehrman debates are the changes and sometimes additional verses and stories to the Bible that weren't in the oldest known manuscripts, but are in the manuscripts that are carbon dated to be centuries later. This is also something that is acknowledged by other Christians, such as Mike Licona.

    So to my question... We know that humans are prone to mistakes, dishonesty, corruption, and forgetting things.

    Why would God trust humans, with the most imporant message mankind would ever receive, to hold that message and deliver it accurately to other civilisations of their own time and future generations without mistakes, changes, or corruptions?

    Please bare in mind, I'm not attacking at all so if it comes across that way I apologise. Also, if anyone has any sources where scholars have answered this question already I'd really apprecaite it. I've tried searching google but I don't get much success when searching things about Christianity.
     
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  2. Jonaitis

    Jonaitis Pilgrim

    +3,206
    United States
    Reformed
    Single
    US-Republican
    I recommend looking into any resources from James White. He has debated Ehrman in the past. He is not only a profound scholar in textual criticism, with answers to very questions you have, but has participated in the translation committee of the New American Standard Bible. As a biblical scholar, he also teaches both Greek and Hebrew. I recommend looking further into his works, they will be of great benefit to you. Also, he often discusses such topics on his podcast "Dividing Line" that you can find on Youtube.
     
  3. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

    +5,341
    New Zealand
    Christian
    Married
    God did not trust humans...

    He watched over the process and inspired His servants.

    He made sure what we have is dependable and worthy of accountability.

    No judge can act with fairness if the rules are not clear.

    So we have the scripture - some read and believe His Word - some dont.
     
  4. FutureAndAHope

    FutureAndAHope Just me Supporter

    +1,681
    Christian
    Married
    I believe that the Bible is the word of God. Yes humans may make some errors in passing a document down from one person to the next, maybe a small copy error or something similar. But generally, we need to be aware that "most" of the people translating these documents greatly feared God, and would not dare change anything.

    I am confident that the Bible has not undergone any real "massive" corruption. From memory, I think there are around 5000 original fragments of the New Testament alone.
     
  5. Tolworth John

    Tolworth John Well-Known Member Supporter

    +3,513
    United Kingdom
    Non-Denom
    Married
    The brutal simplicity is in the answer to one question.

    ' Did Jesus rise from the dead? '

    As Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:14 if Christ is not raised from the dead we are still sinners and worse we are losing that he did rise.

    No resurrection no Christianity, but the reverse is true, if Jesus did rise from the dead you have no excuse for not believing.

    Every other objection, question etc is secondary to your response to this.
     
  6. disciple Clint

    disciple Clint Well-Known Member

    +3,113
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    Simple, Jesus did not just go away, He sent the Holy Spirit to inspire the writers of the N.T. so that it would be accurate.
     
  7. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

    +20,868
    United States
    Lutheran
    In Relationship
    US-Others
    The heart of the Christian religion is the confession that God became man. God has come and become part of the human story.

    And in that human story God is always present with, and acting in the midst of, and working through regular, ordinary, just as fallible as you or me people.

    The climax of that human story is the Incarnation, Jesus Christ, God become flesh; His life, death, resurrection, and coming again.

    Jesus could have left a book for us to read, but He didn't. God's Word, God's Revelation, has never been a text, a book, etc; but rather a concrete flesh-and-blood person.

    "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the word was God ... and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory of God's only-begotten Son" - John 1:1, John 1:14

    So God's revelation is personal. God meets man where man is. God meets us where we are. We don't go up to God, God comes down to us. God meets us in our weakness, our sin, our shame, and our death--God becomes part of that in order to heal it.

    And, as always, God chose to use regular, fallible, sinful people. That through this Church Jesus established He Himself would continue to present Himself to the world, through Word and Sacrament. That is, through the preaching of the Gospel and the Sacraments (Baptism, Communion, etc).

    It's important to keep in mind that before any book of the New Testament was written, before there was anything even called a Bible, there was a believing people.

    The Bible is a product of Christian faith in practice among real people in history. The works that make up the New Testament were written by members of those believing communities of Christians; and the books were assembled, received, and passed down as sacred writing to be read and confessed in the context of believing, worshiping Christians as part of that living Christian faith.

    The message has always been the same, not because the Bible has been miraculously preserved as some heavenly tome dropped out of heaven; but because we can look at what the Christian faithful have been saying and believing for two thousand years. The New Testament is part of that history, the initial story at its beginning with Christ, His public ministry, and calling a group of disciples to teach them--who would then go on to spread His word elsewhere. Recorded in the New Testament, yes, and also clearly evidenced by the existence of practicing Christian communities in antiquity. So we have the Didache (written c. 60-120 AD), the Epistle of Clement (90 AD), the letters of Ignatius of Antioch (105-110 AD) all just as old or even older than some books of the New Testament, as well as writings following, such as the writings of Polycarp and Justin (140-160 AD), Irenaeus (c. 180 AD), Tertullian, Hippolytus, Origen, and many, many, many more.

    As I've studied history, I have become convinced that there has, indeed, been a continuous teaching of the same apostolic, Christian faith that goes all the way right back to Jesus and His group of disciples walking around Galilee and Judea. The Jesus of the Creeds is the Jesus of history.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  8. mmarco

    mmarco Member

    132
    +20
    Italy
    Catholic
    Married
    I think that the strongest argument supporting the divine nature of Christ is that the christian concept of God and of divine love is the highest possible concept. I find that the idea itself that God loves us so much that He chose to assume the human nature and accepted to suffer crucifission in order to save us, expresses such a high concept of God and of divine love that it can comes only from God and it is certainly a truth. This concept is fully convincing for me, it proves itself by itself and makes superfluous any other arguments . I believe that Chirst suffered His Passion to help us to have faith in Him and trust Him, to make us understand that God loves us infinitely, that God is good and merciful, that God is near to us and that we are so precious for Him so that we may totally trust Him, open our heart to Him and let Him change our existence in true life and true love.
    The christian faith is unique because it gives a very concrete and unique meaning to the concept of divine love: in fact God’s love actualizes in the acceptance of a terrible physical suffering; the God of the christian faith loves us so much that He is willing to suffer a painful death in order to save us from a sinful existence. In the christian faith, love is not only a theoretical and vague concept; Christ’s Passion is a clear and concrete realization of the concept of divine love which teaches us what the true meaning of love is.
     
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