The most hated command of Jesus... (video)

[John Hyperspace]

If you believe in salvation by faith in hope and love, then no command need be hated, since no sin is imputed. If you believe in salvation by works and obedience to the commandments, then I would agree that this commandment, and the commandment against the lusts of the world, is indeed the most hated. This is because for most legalists, this one idea strips them of the self-righteousness and exposes them before men as wretched sinners like everyone else. Usually the legalists will then attempt to excuse their disobedience, and their lusts of the world, by claiming they don't have to be obedient to this. But, isn't that the way it always works? Legalists always move the goal to where they stand to give the illusion of obedience to others, and cloak their own ungodly lusts which consume them: lust for money, lust for worldly things; fancy cars, nice houses, fancy clothing, jewelry, trinkets, collectibles, antiques, sneakers, gaming consoles, Iphones, the latest product which they must have. The newest, fastest computer. Lust without end.

Though it's odd to think that, though I believe in salvation by faith, and that no sin is imputed; I have actually come to the point in which I am "separate" from the world in the sense that I do not take part in any "job" (except the business of God) and am a strict minimalist disdaining the material things; yet, I do own a guitar and a beat-up 99 Honda Civic which was given to me. Much as other sins, I didn't find this took any "work" at all; in fact I would state that it really takes work to keep competing in the rat-race, as it were. It seems no work at all to give up the excesses of worldly lust; but it is a sin people find as difficult as drug-addicts in giving up their drugs. Very difficult to do on your own; almost impossible.

At any rate, praise God for the work of Christ which cleanses us of all of our ungodly sins and lusts, so that we may be righteous in His sight through faith. Otherwise, we would all be headed for a bitter end due to our continual sin and disobedience.

 

[miknik5]

In time ...

Your Alli

Your words will remain here on this page. You don't care to explain? I don't care to assume

It is no difference to me either way

 

[Romansthruphilemon]

James says Faith without works is dead (James 2:17)

James says Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only (James 2:24)

The scriptures also say that without holiness, no man shall see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14)

Paul says But to him that WORKETH NOT but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, HIS FAITH IS COUNTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS. (Romans 4:5)

Paul says For by grace are ye saved through faith; and not of yourselves: it is the gift of God (would it be a gift if you had to work for it?) NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast. (Ephesians 2:8,9)

What a schizophrenic Christianity! In the morning when I read out of James and Hebrews I'll learn that I can't be saved by faith alone, WORKS ARE REQUIRED. In the afternoon when I read Paul's epistles I'll learn that I'm saved by faith alone, NO WORKS REQUIRED.

Tomorrow I'll do the same, and on and on until I get so confused that I'll just mostly ignore Paul to try and make it right. Better to go with the safer option and add some of my works just to be sure. Maybe Jesus didn't do everything needed for my salvation.

All this confusion can be cleared up by rightly dividing as we are instructed to do in 2 Timothy 2:15

James is writing to the Jews, not to us. James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, TO THE TWELVE TRIBES WHICH ARE SCATTERED ABROAD, greeting. If this is your doctrine which tribe are you in?

Hebrews was written to the Hebrews. Even if you don't agree that Hebrews was written to the Hebrews (Jews, not us Gentiles) consider this: Paul says in Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith OF Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe:

If believers have the righteousness of God upon them there is no way they are going to be considered "without holiness" Hebrews 12:14. That is basically saying the righteousness of God is not holy.

Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the Apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office.

Paul magnifies his office - you should as well. He has your doctrine for today.

Jesus Christ in his earthly ministry - minister to the circumcision (Jews) (Romans 15:8)

James, Peter, and John - ministers to the circumcision (Galatians 2:7,8,9)

1 Corinthians 4:16 Paul says - Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.

1 Corinthians 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I am of Christ.

 

[Teampancho]

Profound message... can't say I disagree.

It is, of course, more than just giving up love of mammon. It is giving up up of of everything that ties us to this world more than to God's Kingdom. We say we are strangers and sojourners but yet most have established permanent ties to this world that they cherish and probably won't be able to give up.

Thanx for posting ES... much appreciated!

View attachment 189897

 

[Romansthruphilemon]

Another reply to post 58

Titus 2:11,12 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we SHOULD live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world.

I agree absolutely. Let's not forget that we are not talking about how one SHOULD live. We are talking about how to be saved. In the video I don't think it was mentioned, not even once, that Christ died for your sins, was buried, and rose again. No, the video told us that if we don't forsake all we are going to hell.

Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going to establish their own righteousness, HAVE NOT SUBMITTED THEMSELVES UNTO THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD.

 

[Romansthruphilemon]

Last reply to post 58

Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Who is Paul talking about here? Go up to Titus 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.

He is talking about unbelievers, not saved members of the body of Christ that have the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that BELIEVE. (Romans 3:22)

 

[Bible Highlighter]

James says Faith without works is dead (James 2:17)

James says Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only (James 2:24)

The scriptures also say that without holiness, no man shall see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14)

Paul says But to him that WORKETH NOT but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, HIS FAITH IS COUNTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS. (Romans 4:5)

Paul says For by grace are ye saved through faith; and not of yourselves: it is the gift of God (would it be a gift if you had to work for it?) NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast. (Ephesians 2:8,9)

What a schizophrenic Christianity! In the morning when I read out of James and Hebrews I'll learn that I can't be saved by faith alone, WORKS ARE REQUIRED. In the afternoon when I read Paul's epistles I'll learn that I'm saved by faith alone, NO WORKS REQUIRED.

Tomorrow I'll do the same, and on and on until I get so confused that I'll just mostly ignore Paul to try and make it right. Better to go with the safer option and add some of my works just to be sure. Maybe Jesus didn't do everything needed for my salvation.

All this confusion can be cleared up by rightly dividing as we are instructed to do in 2 Timothy 2:15

James is writing to the Jews, not to us. James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, TO THE TWELVE TRIBES WHICH ARE SCATTERED ABROAD, greeting. If this is your doctrine which tribe are you in?Hebrews was written to the Hebrews. Even if you don't agree that Hebrews was written to the Hebrews (Jews, not us Gentiles)

Come on now. You are using one verse in Scripture to completely undo an entire book in the Bible.

James 2:1 says,
"My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons"

So James calls them brethren and that they should have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ without respect of persons. So James is talking to those who have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. You simply do not like what James says so you try to twist what James says in thinking that he is talking to non-Christians when this is not the case. Paul says, "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." (Galatians 3:28).

consider this: Paul says in Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith OF Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe:

Paul is talking about Justification or Initial Salvation in Romans 3 and he is not talking about Sanctification. Well, if you believe Romans 3:10-11 is talking to even the seasoned believer who should be walking in righteousness, then you are sadly mistaken. Meaning, do you believe that Romans 3:10 and Romans 3:23 is talking to all believers? If so, then you must admit that you have no understanding and that you do not seek after God according to Romans 3:11. This is why this chapter is talking about Initial Salvation. For Paul alludes to the heresy of Circumcision Salvationism in Romans 3:1 when he says, "What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?" For Paul says elsewhere, "Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing." (Galatians 5:2). Is circumcision a command of the Old Testament or the New Testament? It is a command of the Old Testament. So Paul is talking about the Old Law of Moses when he references the word "law" and he is not talking about all law. That would not make any sense if Paul referenced all law because he would have contradicted himself many times. For Paul says that what he has written should be regarded as the Lord's commandments (1 Corinthians 14:37). If you are not under any law, then you cannot follow Paul's commands then. Even 1 John 3:23 is a command that you are under. It a law or command that tells us to believe on Jesus. Surely you are under this law, right?

If believers have the righteousness of God upon them there is no way they are going to be considered "without holiness" Hebrews 12:14. That is basically saying the righteousness of God is not holy.

But that is not the context of holiness being spoken about in Hebrews 12. If you were to skip back one chapter, you would see that the type of faith spoken about led to holy works of God (thereby proving their faith as being genuine).

Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the Apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office.

Paul says, "But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof" (Romans 13:14).

Paul magnifies his office - you should as well. He has your doctrine for today.

Jesus Christ in his earthly ministry - minister to the circumcision (Jews) (Romans 15:8)

James, Peter, and John - ministers to the circumcision (Galatians 2:7,8,9)

1 Corinthians 4:16 Paul says - Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.

1 Corinthians 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I am of Christ.

No. If Paul says he is a follower of Christ, that means that he is following the same teachings that Christ taught. For Paul also says,
3 "If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
4 He is proud, knowing nothing, ..." (1 Timothy 6:3-4).

James 4:6 says God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble.



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[Bible Highlighter]

Another reply to post 58

Titus 2:11,12 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we SHOULD live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world.

I agree absolutely. Let's not forget that we are not talking about how one SHOULD live. We are talking about how to be saved. In the video I don't think it was mentioned not even once that Christ died for your sins, was buried, and rose again. No the video told us that if we don't forsake all we are going to hell.

Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going to establish their own righteousness, HAVE NOT SUBMITTED THEMSELVES UNTO THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD.

This is wrong on so many levels. I will address this later.


...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Another reply to post 58

Titus 2:11,12 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we SHOULD live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world.

I agree absolutely. Let's not forget that we are not talking about how one SHOULD live. We are talking about how to be saved. In the video I don't think it was mentioned, not even once, that Christ died for your sins, was buried, and rose again. No, the video told us that if we don't forsake all we are going to hell.

Please do not try to lump their false teaching with what I have said with Scripture. First, I also do not agree with their leaving out the message of the gospel. Second, I also do not agree with their interpretation on Luke 14:33. Anyways, you miss the point of Titus 2:11-14. The point of that passage is that it is telling us that the grace of God does not teach Once Saved Always Saved or that we have a license to sin on some level. Titus 2:11-14 teaches us to deny ungodliness. This is what true grace teaches us.

Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going to establish their own righteousness, HAVE NOT SUBMITTED THEMSELVES UNTO THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD.

Who is Paul talking to? The Israelites. Romans 10:1 says, "Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved." Paul is talking to Jews when he says they are seeking to establish their own righteousness. The Jews seek to keep the Old Law and not the commands in the New Testament that comes from Jesus and His followers. How can a person be seeking to establish their own righteousness if they are seeking to obey Jesus and His followers?


...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Last reply to post 58

Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate. Who is Paul talking about here? Go up to Titus 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. He is talking about unbelievers, not saved members of the body of Christ that have the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that BELIEVE.

Not true. Paul was ultimately talking or writing to Titus who was a believer (See Titus 1:4). I mean, stop and think for a moment how ridiculous your argument sounds here. Paul tells Titus about a people that does not apply to TItus in the slightest? That sure doesn't make any sense. Why tell Titus at all about them if these men who deny God are not a warning to him and to us? For Paul says that they profess that they know God but in works they deny Him (TItus 1:16). This is not a new teaching in the Bible. Jude 1:4 says there are those who turn the grace of our God into a license for immorality. This is how they deny God. They deny God by their works. 1 John 2:4 says if we say we know Him and do not keep His commandments we are liar and the truth is not in us. Jesus says, why do you call me Lord, Lord if you do not what I say? (Luke 6:46). Jesus said to those who worked lawlessness to depart from Him because He never knew them (Matthew 7:23). These were believers who did many wonderful works in his name. But doing good works is not enough if one is also working lawlessness or sin. ForJesus will say to these type of believers, "I never knew you." He will deny them. James says faith without works is dead. A dead faith cannot access the saving grace of God.



...

 

[Frank Lo]

Hi all. Here's another video. It's roughly 22 minutes long, but the last 3 minutes are a song. It's here in the controversial section for a reason, so be prepared for some pretty shocking observations. I look forward to some stimulating debate!

Dont watch garbage videos that speak against prosperity

 

[Endtime Survivors]

The video said you are not a Christian unless you are a disciple.

Correction. Jesus said it. The video comments on what Jesus said.

 

[Endtime Survivors]

Anyways, it is nice that the author of the video wants us to obey Jesus.

Thank you for this positive contribution.

 

[Endtime Survivors]

So James calls them brethren and that they should have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ without respect of persons. So James is talking to those who have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. You simply do not like what James says so you try to twist what James says in thinking that he is talking to non-Christians when this is not the case.

That was my conclusion, too. This is actually why the "salvation by works" doctrine exists in the first place; people who don't want to obey came up with a spiritually satisfying way to disregard those disagreeable teaching by claiming they didn't want to "work their way to heaven".

Of course, they see no problem with going off to work for mammon 40 hours per week, because supposedly Paul's ministry was all about people going out to make money.

The more I hear this mind of stuff from people, the easier it is to imagine the kind of frustration Jesus must have felt in his day, and it's probably why he said, "Why do you call me Lord, but do not obey me"?

 

[Endtime Survivors]

In addition, it is not wrong to work at a job. Paul was a tent maker. But he worked so as not to charge for the gospel.

See the PS in post #52 which specifically addresses this issue. I look forward to hearing what you think of the reasoning used.

This does not mean one cannot be a preacher and live off those wages, though. Paul also says, "The laborer is worthy of his wages." (1 Timothy 5:18).

Check out 1 Timothy 5:17. Clearly Paul was not talking about working for mammon. He was talking about the work of the church in reaching out to the world. But this is the thing about a world which has come to believe they cannot live without money. We will see what we want to.

Jesus said much the same thing in Luke 10:7. The context is the disciples being sent off to preach the gospel not to their system jobs to serve mammon.

He told them not to take any staff, money, extra shoes, cloak, etc, because he wanted them to get personal, first hand experience that his previous teachings about God taking care of those who seek his kingdom first, instead of money, will be provided for. In Luke 22:35 he specifically asks them if they lacked anything at that time, and they said, "No". It worked.

 

[Endtime Survivors]

Anyone trying to be justified by works because they are concentrating on the gospel of the Kingdom instead of the gospel of the grace of God will be told "depart from me I never knew you".

You are not wrong about the issue of trying to be justified by works. I believe this was the purpose of the warning Paul gave in Ephesians 2:8-10. It's not a warning against trying to be good or actually doing good, but rather a warning against having a proud spirit about the good we do. It's a warning against boasting.

Look at verse 10. He goes on to say that we are created to do good works; God expects us to walk in them. Obviously, if someone has a bad attitude about their good works, then that needs to be addressed, but pointing out that Jesus expects obedience is hardly boasting.

What is really happening when people complain about salvation by works is that they just don't want to do what the command tells them to do, so they've come up with a convenient doctrine to excuse their disobedience. It probably sounds very good to them in their own head, but when it's expressed in words on paper (or screen) it just comes across as irrational and inconsistent.

These same people will say we must go to church, that we must read the Bible, that we must pray, that we must worship, that we must go to work for Caesar so we can pay our taxes and tithes, and that we must obey the laws of the land to be right with God.

But when it comes to some personal discipline, like confronting greed, suddenly they're not under the law and their not saved by works. The motivations become clear enough over time.

I do believe this is why Jesus asked, "When I return to the Earth, will I find any faith at all"?

 

[Huckfinn151]

It does sort of make sense. A double minded man is unstable in all his ways. As far as his voice modulator; it is kind of nice. If the scripture clearly states that I can't serve two masters; I intend on giving more. I have recently found myself sort of upset at God recently; which is interesting. If I was serving God; would I be confused, angry and fearful? Fearfulness has surprised the hypocrites.

 

[miknik5]

James says Faith without works is dead (James 2:17)

James says Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only (James 2:24)

The scriptures also say that without holiness, no man shall see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14)

Paul says But to him that WORKETH NOT but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, HIS FAITH IS COUNTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS. (Romans 4:5)

Paul says For by grace are ye saved through faith; and not of yourselves: it is the gift of God (would it be a gift if you had to work for it?) NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast. (Ephesians 2:8,9)

What a schizophrenic Christianity! In the morning when I read out of James and Hebrews I'll learn that I can't be saved by faith alone, WORKS ARE REQUIRED. In the afternoon when I read Paul's epistles I'll learn that I'm saved by faith alone, NO WORKS REQUIRED.

Tomorrow I'll do the same, and on and on until I get so confused that I'll just mostly ignore Paul to try and make it right. Better to go with the safer option and add some of my works just to be sure. Maybe Jesus didn't do everything needed for my salvation.

All this confusion can be cleared up by rightly dividing as we are instructed to do in 2 Timothy 2:15

James is writing to the Jews, not to us. James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, TO THE TWELVE TRIBES WHICH ARE SCATTERED ABROAD, greeting. If this is your doctrine which tribe are you in?

Hebrews was written to the Hebrews. Even if you don't agree that Hebrews was written to the Hebrews (Jews, not us Gentiles) consider this: Paul says in Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith OF Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe:

If believers have the righteousness of God upon them there is no way they are going to be considered "without holiness" Hebrews 12:14. That is basically saying the righteousness of God is not holy.

Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the Apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office.

Paul magnifies his office - you should as well. He has your doctrine for today.

Jesus Christ in his earthly ministry - minister to the circumcision (Jews) (Romans 15:8)

James, Peter, and John - ministers to the circumcision (Galatians 2:7,8,9)

1 Corinthians 4:16 Paul says - Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.

1 Corinthians 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I am of Christ.

Actually, when applied to the believer in CHRIST, if he can't make heads or tails of what Paul AND James are saying, he should reexamine his FAITH to see if it is correctly in step with THE TRUTH

If not, turn back, and readjust your steps so that they ARE in line with THE TRUTH

Follow ME means follow HIM

 

[sparow]

Thanks to everyone who watched and posted. There's been a variety of responses, from appreciative to intense anger. I look forward to more constructive comments regarding the content of the video.

I give the video 8 out of 10. I think the truth is misdirected; most think "love thy neighbour" replaces every other commandment God has given; including "come out of her my people".

 

[sparow]

The "rich young man" if he gave away all his treasures would still be very poor if he did not come to the revelation between the difference in treasure(s) and TREASURE

I think you are misusing that parable. All the rich young man had to do to receive eternal life was keep the commandments; he only needed to give everything away and follow Jesus if he wanted to be perfect.