The most difficult apologetics

[Amandine]

are to some Orthodox and skeptical Protestants. Now I'm going to give a link. I want no one to freak out, no one to raid TAW with protests, and no one to complain too much. I would like us all to give good refutations on this thread to the article in civilized manner. I take it as a hot poker in the rear to er... research our Western faith.

http://home.it.net.au/~jgrapsas/pages/differences.htm

-Catherine

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

n/m

 

[CatholicSoldier]

Id like the bishops view, on why the word 'Orthodox' wasnt used until after 1054, and Catholic was? Seems he is ignoring the Early Church Fathers, and well everything else. Even Protestants recognize the Catholic Church before 1054 and not the Orthodox, just seems like this Bishop is grasping for a win.

 

[thereselittleflower]

cbrickell

I think the link you gave presents too many issue to deal with in one thread, and I think that we could talk all we want about those issues, but then we might be guilty of what we don't like happening in PRE when they talk about us . . . what is presented in that article is a particular view point of history . . I have read similar, but different presentations of these same issues by Orthodox . .

I would encourage all to research the issues as thoroughly as they can, but I don't think we shoulld be tackling them here like this . .

I would suggest that we wait until our Orthodox brethern can join us in an open and respectful discussion over the issues that seem to divide us . . but I don't think anything very fruitful will come of us trying to prove them wrong by taking the issues in this article (which by the way I came across much earlier today too . . weird) and then giving apologetics to disprove them. . . I think we should try to build bridges instead . .


Peace in Him!

 

[prodromos]

Id like the bishops view, on why the word 'Orthodox' wasnt used until after 1054, and Catholic was? Seems he is ignoring the Early Church Fathers, and well everything else. Even Protestants recognize the Catholic Church before 1054 and not the Orthodox, just seems like this Bishop is grasping for a win.

My friend,

the term "Orthodox" was in use long before the schism, and it is not surprising that many Protestants don't recognise Orthodoxy prior to then since it is not part of their history. Protestantism is your baby, the Orthodox church has produced no such errant offspring

I suspect that Bishop Athenagoras has read many more patristic works than you have and is better qualified than you at presenting the differences between Orthodoxy and Catholicism from an Orthodow viewpoint. Which is all he is doing BTW, he is certainly not grasping for a win .

John

 

[CatholicSoldier]

My friend,

the term "Orthodox" was in use long before the schism, and it is not surprising that many Protestants don't recognise Orthodoxy prior to then since it is not part of their history. Protestantism is your baby, the Orthodox church has produced no such errant offspring

I suspect that Bishop Athenagoras has read many more patristic works than you have and is better qualified than you at presenting the differences between Orthodoxy and Catholicism from an Orthodow viewpoint. Which is all he is doing BTW, he is certainly not grasping for a win .

John

Might wanna get over ur ego trip BRO!. They aint Our 'Baby'. They decided to rebuke the Church, therefore they forfeit all that is promised of God in Ha-Brit Chadasha. Yes I just read orthodox was used, but not as a Church title, but as this is a orthodox meaning, meaning on-line, straight and truth, the Muslim scholars of the 7th and 8th centuries also used the word orthodox, but obviously in arabic, are they Orthodox Church? No.

Im sure he has, but not more than 2000 yrs of the Catholic Church

 

[prodromos]

You're young, I'll let it pass.

John.

 

[nyj]

Protestantism is your baby, the Orthodox church has produced no such errant offspring

Hmm, I thought according you Orthodox, who love to refer to us as heterodox and schismatic, we were your errant offspring.

Which, by my calculations would make Protestants at least your cousins.

 

[ps139]

Might wanna get over ur ego trip BRO!. They aint Our 'Baby'. They decided to rebuke the Church, therefore they forfeit all that is promised of God in Ha-Brit Chadasha. Yes I just read orthodox was used, but not as a Church title, but as this is a orthodox meaning, meaning on-line, straight and truth, the Muslim scholars of the 7th and 8th centuries also used the word orthodox, but obviously in arabic, are they Orthodox Church? No.

Im sure he has, but not more than 2000 yrs of the Catholic Church

Hey man chill out. Respond like that everytime someone disagrees with you and you will become unpopular really fast.

 

[KennySe]

(I haven't opened that link, but I have read this thread.)

Dear Orthodox Brethren,
My view is that we Catholics and we Orthodox left each other.
And as Pope John Paul II has used the example of "two lungs" on a number of occasions, that is my position.

 

[ProCommunioneFacior]

Wow, after reading that link, I wish that we had a subforum where only the Orthodox and Catholics can discuss these things. I have many questions that I would like to ask.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Wow, after reading that link, I wish that we had a subforum where only the Orthodox and Catholics can discuss these things. I have many questions that I would like to ask.

I as well, my friend, I as well!


Peace in Him!

 

[prodromos]

Hmm, I thought according you Orthodox, who love to refer to us as heterodox and schismatic, we were your errant offspring.

Which, by my calculations would make Protestants at least your cousins.

Touche! makes my comment completely moot doesn't it

John

 

[Amandine]

Okay, I've been gone half and day and woah. I certainly wasn't trying to blast anyone here. I know it's a lot of material presented but I truly want to know good refutations for some of these issues as it's a very important topic to me. CatholicSoldier, I assure you it's a deeper issue than just "they schismed". As an outsider, we somewhat feel what KennySe said...each broke off from the other, it's a vile mess, and I don't feel right unless people seriously want to reunify.
-Catherine

 

[Michelina]

...it's a vile mess, and I don't feel right unless people seriously want to reunify.......Catherine

The Holy Spirit is drawing us together, but there are many Orthodox and Catholics who are resisting Him.

Kyrie, eleison!

 

[orthedoxy]

1 Corinthians 1:11-13
My brothers, some from Chloe's household have informed me that there are quarrels among you.What I mean is this: One of you says, "I follow Paul"; another, "I follow Apollos"; another, "I follow Cephas"; still another, "I follow Christ."
Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized into the name of Paul?
I wish Catholics didn't see it as if everyone have to be of cephas to be right.
I've led few people from being protestant back to the Roman Catholic church even though i'm an Orthodox.
I respect Catholics even though they don't respect my church the Armenian Apostalic Church.

 

[Michelina]

...I respect Catholics even though they don't respect my church the Armenian Apostalic Church.

I respect your Church and all its members. And I love them.

 

[KennySe]

I respect Catholics even though they don't respect my church the Armenian Apostalic Church.

For such individual Catholics, tell them to follow the example of Pope John Paul II.
http://www.stjohnsarmenianchurch.org/Featured Articles/NewsArticles/11-10-2000.htm

 

[orthedoxy]

Thanks Michelina and Kenny
By the way great link, I posted it to my friend as well.
Do Catholics believe one could be saved even though they don’t belong to the Catholic Church?

 

[Michelina]

...Do Catholics believe one could be saved even though they don’t belong to the Catholic Church?

This is what we believe:

from THE CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
#846
How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience—those too may achieve eternal salvation"

We especially esteem most highly our Orthodox brothers and sisters and we love them, despite our separation from them - which saddens us.