The Moral Argument (revamped)

[gaara4158]

atheism by definition was meant to be anti theist, and was derived as a result of theism. And owes it's complete existence to theism. Agnosticism does not answer the question at all, and is no help in the controversy at all. It sort of gives up, and raises the white flag.

You can characterize agnosticism however you want. There is no shame in declaring you don’t or can’t know the answer to a question that philosophers still debate to this day.

 

[createdtoworship]

You can characterize agnosticism however you want. There is no shame in declaring you don’t or can’t know the answer to a question that philosophers still debate to this day.

if giving up is not a bad thing in your mind, that would be true.

 

[gaara4158]

if giving up is not a bad thing in your mind, that would be true.

Giving up futile endeavors is probably better than not.

 

[createdtoworship]

Giving up futile endeavors is probably better than not.

at least you admit proving God does not exist is a futile endeavor. Thats a start.

 

[gaara4158]

at least you admit proving God does not exist is a futile endeavor. Thats a start.

That’s been my position for decades. You should pay attention.

 

[holo]

atheism by definition was meant to be anti theist, and was derived as a result of theism.

Those darn theists, eh?

 

[holo]

Agnosticism does not answer the question at all, and is no help in the controversy at all.

"I don't know if God exists" isn't an attempt to help in any controversy, it's merely a statement about not being convinced one way or the other. An agnostic doesn't claim to know the answer, so I don't understand why you keep insisting they give you the correct one.

 

[createdtoworship]

That’s been my position for decades. You should pay attention.

but yet you mention that I am trying to disprove evolution in another thread. Just as you have held that view for decades, so too I have held my view of evolution for decades. There simply is no evidence of it.

 

[gaara4158]

but yet you mention that I am trying to disprove evolution in another thread. Just as you have held that view for decades, so too I have held my view of evolution for decades. There simply is no evidence of it.

We have been discussing evolution in all three of the threads we’re talking in, and in one of them - the one in ethics and morality, I think - you have tried to argue that evolution is limited to the genus level, which is in effect arguing that evolution as the theory of universal common descent isn’t possible. Not to mention you keep bleating that there’s no evidence but you refuse to look at any when it’s presented to you and you dismiss scientific consensus. So your opinion on evolution isn’t informed or valuable in any way.

 

[createdtoworship]

your opinion on evolution isn’t informed or valuable in any way.

thanks. That is one of the nicer things you have said.

I appreciate it.

But for the record, I usually only post peer review, if someone didn't provide peer review, then no, I would not have honored what they say.

consensus of internet scholars, is not what I consider accurate.

 

[gaara4158]

thanks. That is one of the nicer things you have said.

I appreciate it.

But for the record, I usually only post peer review, if someone didn't provide peer review, then no, I would not have honored what they say.

consensus of internet scholars, is not what I consider accurate.

Well, here’s hoping you make a cogent argument with sources one day.

 

[createdtoworship]

Well, here’s hoping you make a cogent argument with sources one day.

and here's hoping you don't resort to ad hominem fallacy some day.

 

[Yttrium]

Agnosticism does not answer the question at all, and is no help in the controversy at all. It sort of gives up, and raises the white flag.

Exactly! You nailed it this time.

 

[createdtoworship]

Exactly! You nailed it this time.

Giving up is not a good thing though. I didn't give up. I researched and researched and researched, till I could prove God exists, and I made a thread on it, and the OP is still unrefuted. Argument for God's existence.

if thats what it takes, you just tackle it.

you don't just toss in the towel when it gets hard.

But then again if I believed the universe came from nothing, and that I evolved from a rock, I would not have as much passion for what I do.

 

[gaara4158]

and here's hoping you don't resort to ad hominem fallacy some day.

Swing and a miss.

 

[Moral Orel]

Giving up is not a good thing though. I didn't give up. I researched and researched and researched, till I could prove God exists, and I made a thread on it, and the OP is still unrefuted. Argument for God's existence.

It sure can seem that way when you ignore posts that refute it, huh?

 

[createdtoworship]

It sure can seem that way when you ignore posts that refute it, huh?

no sir, flaming is against the rules. So I block all people who flame regularly or insult instead of debate. With your arguments in particular, I found out that you were excessively vengeful and sort of mean in how you debated with me. So I am not sure if you felt threatened or what, but I don't encourage that behavior. I am christian after all. If I allowed people to mock and belittle, then that is surely all that would happen. As it is easier to mock than to use logic.

 

[Moral Orel]

no sir, flaming is against the rules. So I block all people who flame regularly or insult instead of debate. With your arguments in particular, I found out that you were excessively vengeful and sort of mean in how you debated with me. So I am not sure if you felt threatened or what, but I don't encourage that behavior. I am christian after all. If I allowed people to mock and belittle, then that is surely all that would happen. As it is easier to mock than to use logic.

You were rude, so I responded to you in kind. You started putting me on and off ignore long before I stopped being polite. It's because I beat you too soundly at every turn and you just don't understand the basics of logic well enough to respond to me. You don't deserve to have people be polite to you because you aren't polite to anyone who disagrees with you, even other Christians. So, yeah, I throw a bit of rudeness in with most of the posts I make that explain logically what's wrong with basically every single aspect of every baseless claim and shifty debate tactic that you try to pass off as argumentation. If you ever learned anything, I'd have less to respond to.

So ignore me all you want. People will keep seeing your points being refuted whether you want to acknowledge that they are or not. And your lack of a response to my refutations of those points is really just an admission of defeat.

 

[Moral Orel]

@gradyll
I'm feeling forgiving, buddy. If you acknowledge and apologize to all the other posters, personally, in your threads for being condescending about what a skilled debater you think you are, and for strawmanning their posts either through straight up dishonesty or because you simply didn't bother to read them closely at all, and for ignoring evidence that people present that you asked for, I'll give you a do-over. All my responses to your posts will go back to being dry and boring.

But you'll have to acknowledge your mistakes. Don't apologize to me either, you owe it to everyone else first. If you can man up and accept responsibility for the tone you set in your threads, I'll give you a do-over. Of course, you'll have to maintain a polite demeanor and work a lot harder to understand the positions that other people explain to you, whether you agree with them or not, in order to keep things from devolving once more, but that will be up to you.

 

[createdtoworship]

@gradyll
I'm feeling forgiving, buddy. If you acknowledge and apologize to all the other posters, personally, in your threads for being condescending about what a skilled debater you think you are, and for strawmanning their posts either through straight up dishonesty or because you simply didn't bother to read them closely at all, and for ignoring evidence that people present that you asked for, I'll give you a do-over. All my responses to your posts will go back to being dry and boring.

But you'll have to acknowledge your mistakes. Don't apologize to me either, you owe it to everyone else first. If you can man up and accept responsibility for the tone you set in your threads, I'll give you a do-over. Of course, you'll have to maintain a polite demeanor and work a lot harder to understand the positions that other people explain to you, whether you agree with them or not, in order to keep things from devolving once more, but that will be up to you.

I tried to believe your first few sentences, just to give you the benefit of the doubt. But you instantly crushed that trust by flaming and belittling soon afterward. So, no more replies to you sir. You can flame all you want, all by yourself.