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It was a safe place before when we could all agree to disagree.Actually, the mine field is because it is not a safe place for Messianic Jews. I have been called many names on this forum because I am a Messianic Jew.
Those on this forum subscribe to One Law, which is not a belief in Messianic Judaism. And then apparently call Messianic Jews names. I have heard from many Messianic Jews. Real Messianic Jews. Who have been attacked on this forum.
I am trying to make it a safe place for Messianic Jews. But in order to do that, people here are going to have to agree with the MJAA. That is a very good definition of Messianic Judaism, as it is written to include all Messianic Jews. Unlike this forum, where the members want to exclude Messianic Jews who don't subscribe to One Law. Of course, Messianic Judaism does not subscribe to One Law, so very very few Messianic Jews will.
I have said, many times that the title of the forum has to change, as this group is attacking Messianic Jews, banning Messianic Jews, calling Messianic Jews Christians, etc etc etc, all on a forum representing itself as Messianic Judaism and with a SOF which all Messianic Jews would agree with.
To call us anti-missionary is indeed a flame. Quite out of line. And to say point blank that some here hate MJs is also a flame and beyond just an insult.No, it is not just about me. It is about the abuse and actual Anti-Messianic Jews stance the people on this forum have taken. The truth is, many of the people on the forum actually hate Messianic Jews, and what Messianic Jews believe and are trying to chase them off a forum which is labeled to be for Messianic Jews.
Dear Sister, you don't go in with your guns blazing as a means of keeping the peace. Don't you think most of us here have heard all of this before? Most us us came out of a 'systematic theology' framework that we found wanting. Sister Qnts2, if you would like to see how we see the topic of grace, do a quick search. There are hundred of threads that have beat this topic to death. Or start one of your own. I'm sure you will have a lively discussion.
Our problem here is that we are gun shy. Regularly, people come in here trying to save us from ourselves and beating us over the head with 'grace'. OPs are hijacked, threads are derailed, posters are disrespected and confronted - again and again and again. It is very frustrating.
Look, the Torah observant among us don't have anything against you or any Jew, Messianic or otherwise. But turning every discussion into a 'grace only' soapbox is probably not the best way to win anyone over. Can we just agree that your theology and ours (boy do I feel weird talking for others on the board because we are so diverse) does not always agree and try and stay on topic?
That said, the largest MJ organizations are great. They are filled with wonderful people, almost all of which I can find something with which to disagree. But they all have many more things with which I do agree. Jeepers, just quit trying so hard. We aren't a bunch of monsters. We will change as we are led or are convinced.
I wish you well.
Indeed. There are lots of people on many forums with whom I disagree. That doesn't mean we can't be friends, and turn to other topics.It was a safe place before when we could all agree to disagree.
I agree completely.To call us anti-missionary is indeed a flame. Quite out of line. And to say point blank that some here hate MJs is also a flame and beyond just an insult.
It was a safe place before when we could all agree to disagree.
To call us anti-missionary is indeed a flame. Quite out of line. And to say point blank that some here hate MJs is also a flame and beyond just an insult.
It was a safe place before when we could all agree to disagree.
To call us anti-missionary is indeed a flame. Quite out of line. And to say point blank that some here hate MJs is also a flame and beyond just an insult.
That does help some.
But, I have already written, Messianic Judaism has no problems with Gentiles who are called to keep the law. But, One Law teaches that Gentiles must keep the law.
That is a teaching contrary to Messianic Judaism. Messianic Judaism is not defined by law keeping. One Law is.
Since this is a Messianic Judaism forum, with the MJAA as the SOF, that is what it should be. But, for the most part, Messianic Jews are not welcome here because in reality this is a One Law forum.
Again, I apologize. I would have you feel welcome. I'm sorry that you feel you weren't greeted properly. But I just went back and read through your first five or six posts. I didn't see anything out of the ordinary. Perhaps you should have said, "Hi, I'm new!" Not everyone reads post counts.As a newbie, I came to the board with no preconceived notions, other then this was a Messianic Judaism board. I read all of the SOF, and agreed with them all, before posting my first post.
I was not greeted. It was probably on my second or third post that I was attacked. Since then, many have recommended that I call myself a Christian, among other things. So I posted the SOF of this board, and different Messianic Judaism organizations.
So, if you all are gunshy, I am sorry, but.... Apparently you gunshyness included attacks on many people who are Messianic Gentiles and Messianic Jews. So, the solution is to gang up on the newbies who do believe in the SOF of Messianic Judaism?
By the way, the only reason I bring up Grace is because so many are speaking against it. I am actually responding to what appears to be an anti-grace stance. Although I do believe in grace, I normally don't talk much about it as Messianic Judaism believes in grace and I would assume we are all in agreement on a Messianic Judaism forum.
That's just pettiness. Most of us can read. We all understood her to be playing off your, "Anti-Messianic Jews/Judaism" statements.I am posting a second post.
I did not call you an anti-missionary. That is a wrong accusation. And since such an accusation is so repugnant, I am going to ask you to rescind your false accusation. Since, other are now repeating what you falsely accused me of.
Qnts2 said:this group is attacking Messianic Jews, banning Messianic Jews, calling Messianic Jews Christians, etc etc etc, all on a forum representing itself as Messianic Judaism
I am sorry to read that you and others have experienced name calling here.
I can see the tensions here, even in just a few month's participation.I have felt caution, too, not wanting to step on proverbial toes.
I do not think this disrespectful behavior is in any way pleasing to our Elohim. However it is also true that it is important to be aware of when one is behaving in a provocative manner. For what it is worth, I affirm the gentle reminder that it is not helpful to come in with "guns blazing." There are sadly, many here who are very emotionally reactive, one way or the other.
This whole "labeling" of "One Law" vs. "Divine Invitation" seems indicative of strife and division. Polarization is rarely helpful. But it does feed into the evil one's schemes; if he can't draw us entirely away from our faith, he can bring such discord that we are rendered nearly harmless, a discredit to our Messiah.
But when you assert:
That is a teaching contrary to Messianic Judaism. Messianic Judaism is not defined by law keeping. One Law is.
I must ask: I thought Torah was to be our foundation and standard?
Isn't "Messianic Judaism" one of human being's attempts to interpret the Torah? How is it that people think one interpretation is absolutely clearly pure when as far as I can see there have always been various "sects" and beliefs, and "halacha" in various areas that are not always in agreement?
Who among us is absolutely certain that they alone have such a pure and correct understanding?
I mean no disrespect to a group of people who have maintained their identity across generations against all odds, surely sustainable only by our Elohim. Baruch haShem!
And neither do I want to be marginalized or discounted as a grafted-in member of the family of the God of Israel.
Isn't "Messianic Judaism" one of human being's attempts to interpret the Torah? How is it that people think one interpretation is absolutely clearly pure when as far as I can see there have always been various "sects" and beliefs, and "halacha" in various areas that are not always in agreement?
Who among us is absolutely certain that they alone have such a pure and correct understanding?
I mean no disrespect to a group of people who have maintained their identity across generations against all odds, surely sustainable only by our Elohim. Baruch haShem!
And neither do I want to be marginalized or discounted as a grafted-in member of the family of the God of Israel.
I bow to your request and ask your appology. I read it as anti-missionary. Perhaps it is because I have dealt with them in the past in posts and the level of strive in this thread is much the same. I would ask that you also consider recending your accusations that we as a MJ family are anti Messianic and hate Messianics.I did not call you an anti-missionary. That is a wrong accusation. And since such an accusation is so repugnant, I am going to ask you to rescind your false accusation. Since, other are now repeating what you falsely accused me of.
That's just pettiness. Most of us can read. We all understood her to be playing off your, "Anti-Messianic Jews/Judaism" statements.
Besides, having said this...
... you might as well HAVE called us all anti-Missionaries. Isn't that really what you're trying to say???
Since you arrived here, you have seemed dedicated to causing division and strife in the house. One almost gets the impression you chose to visit this forum with the specific mission of stirring the pot. Might that be an accurate conjecture?
I bow to your request and ask your appology. I read it as anti-missionary. Perhaps it is because I have dealt with them in the past in posts and the level of strive in this thread is much the same. I would ask that you also consider recending your accusations that we as a MJ family are anti Messianic and hate Messianics.
Many of us here have survived this forum for several years. We are not newbies. We have been through the fire. We have congratulated each other in our joys and we have cried (quite literally) with those who have suffered great loss. We tend to stick together and when others come in trying to change our name and our identity we stick together as a family. To become part of this crazy cyber mishpacha we have learned to respect each others differences and back off when we have hit a nerve. That way we can all consider ourselves Messianic Jews and Gentiles - black, white, male, female, rich, poor, outspoken or reserved.
I am sorry to read that you and others have experienced name calling here.
I can see the tensions here, even in just a few month's participation.I have felt caution, too, not wanting to step on proverbial toes.
I do not think this disrespectful behavior is in any way pleasing to our Elohim. However it is also true that it is important to be aware of when one is behaving in a provocative manner. For what it is worth, I affirm the gentle reminder that it is not helpful to come in with "guns blazing." There are sadly, many here who are very emotionally reactive, one way or the other.
This whole "labeling" of "One Law" vs. "Divine Invitation" seems indicative of strife and division. Polarization is rarely helpful. But it does feed into the evil one's schemes; if he can't draw us entirely away from our faith, he can bring such discord that we are rendered nearly harmless, a discredit to our Messiah.
But when you assert:
That is a teaching contrary to Messianic Judaism. Messianic Judaism is not defined by law keeping. One Law is.
I must ask: I thought Torah was to be our foundation and standard?
Isn't "Messianic Judaism" one of human being's attempts to interpret the Torah? How is it that people think one interpretation is absolutely clearly pure when as far as I can see there have always been various "sects" and beliefs, and "halacha" in various areas that are not always in agreement?
Who among us is absolutely certain that they alone have such a pure and correct understanding?
I mean no disrespect to a group of people who have maintained their identity across generations against all odds, surely sustainable only by our Elohim. Baruch haShem!
And neither do I want to be marginalized or discounted as a grafted-in member of the family of the God of Israel.
Qnts2 said:Once again, this Messianic Judaism organization does not see a requirement for Gentiles to keep the Mosaic law. So this is Messianic Judaism and not One Law. However, I do believe if a Gentile feels called of God to keep the Mosaic law, then they should. It is not a requirement, it is a calling.
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