The Messianic Movement: A Western Subculture ?

[Hoshiyya]

So, is it a matter of beginning here, and slowly breaking out of these Hellenic/Western trappings in which we (or most of us) begin to make our stand, or are we stuck in this ground from which we came forth ?

My initial suspicion is probably true. However, we may not have much time left. Maybe the disappearance of modern technology will be the first thing, and then the dominance of the Jewish King Yeshua will come soon after. Many people in the Messianic Movement apparently think the Western Way is the only way and the natural evolution for all things is to become Western, but they will be in for quite a shock. Many have tried to revision the Israelite/Biblical as essentially identical to the Western, and will ultimately realize how wrong they are.

As I said in another thread:

During the Millennial age there likely will not be advanced modern dehumanizing technology, but rather spears will turn to ploughshares (Isaiah 2:4) and each man will sit under his fig tree (Micah 4:4). The world will primarily be divided into rural agricultural or pastoral communities.
Furthermore:
"Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; the one who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere child; the one who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed." (Isaiah 65:20.)

Israel will be the dominant nation and this time is perhaps best prefigured during the golden age of the reign of Solomon.

...There will be a highway from Egypt to Assyria (Isaiah 19:23), five cities in Egypt will speak "the language of Canaan" (Isaiah 19:18).

Other nations will have their own cultures, with Israelite culture having the same position the Greco-Roman culture had in the ancient world or the American-European culture has today, namely the position of a hochkultur influencing all the others.

Just as people even outside of the American-European world view things through a American-European lens, so shall it be with Israel in the millennial age; Israel shall not conform to Egypt, Babylon, Persia, America etc but rather these shall conform to Israel.

 

[Hoshiyya]

Relative to my questions regarding the apparent absence of historical Israelite culture among Messianics, some people seemingly make arguments that imply there will or should be, both presently and in the coming age, a "coat of many colors", but with one color missing, namely the Israelite, which is supremely ironic.

I think a truly vital culture will want to be more than just internal, but have will to express itself in every aspect of life, as is the case with many other systems/religions/cultures. I think the Bible clearly shows that Judaism is not merely doctrine, but also praxis, including many external expressions. Again, this is not a matter of compulsion, but of a will toward expression.

I guess I find it strange that many Hindus, even outside of India, seemingly respect and revere India and the Indic culture more than many Messianics revere historical Israel and Israelite culture; these Messianics having instead an inclination to making excuses for ignoring it and merely internalizing the doctrines and avoiding all external signs and tells, as though the distinction between the external and internal is clearly delineated in Scripture.
(The Bible has commandment after commandment that even assumes you - at least ideally - live in the land and are familiar with something as un-internal as the yearly/agricultural cycle! How is this "universalistic" ?)

If the reader imagines that I have said anything offensive, I ask that you request a clarification instead of imputing onto me strawmen.

 

[visionary]

Notice the word "returning"...

"Beloved are proselytes by God, for the Bible everywhere uses the same epithet of them as of Israel" (Talmud, Gerim 4:3)

Conversion as a three step process: Ger Toshav, Ger HaShar, and Ger Tzadik. The Torah made specific regulations regarding the admission into the Commonwealth of Israelites of non- Israelites (Exodus 20:10; 23:12; 12:19, 48; Deuteronomy 5:14; 16:11-14).

The Netzarim Halacha (doctrine) concerning Ger Toshav is as follows:
"It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. For Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath." (Acts 15:19-21)

Isaiah 56:6 "Also the sons of the foreigner who join themselves to YHWH, to serve Him, and to love the Name of YHWH, to be His servants, all who guard the Sabbath, and not profane it, and hold fast to My covenant"

 

[Hoshiyya]

Okay . . . which post or statement are you responding to Visionary ?

What is "Netzarim Halacha" ?