Pre-Mil Only The Messiah Is Coming ...

[Douggg]

In context, Daniel 9:26 refers to the Messiah being cut off after the 69th week which would be, the 70th week, in the middle of that week (vs.27) He shall bring an end to sacrifice.

Who is the prince who shall come? Is Jesus a Roman?

btw, Ronald, looking at you post, there is such a thing called "paragraphs". It makes your lengthy posts easier to read if broken down into paragraphs.

 

[Ronald]

Here is what I actually wrote... "I have made over 4000 posts in discussion, over the course of ten years, with Jews themselves at their (Judaism) sites to understand what they believe. As a result, I have become very knowledgeable on what they believe."

I was just saying why I am qualifed to know what the Jews (Judaism) believes and you are not. Which I would not even had to mention it, but you told me I was wrong about what the Jews believe by referring to a couple of verses in the testament. I am just explaining to you that you are not knowledgeable on what they believe, and gave you a very good site at Judaism 101.com and their view of the mashiach. A person cannot understand the end times without that knowledge, Ronald.

You may be beyond education, but my post contained material with links that should be invaluable to them who are willing to expand their knowledge base in order to understand the end times, and put together a probable start to finish end times scenario.

btw, why do you falsely accuse me of being Pre-trib? Why are you even bring the rapture up? It has no relevancey to my posts in this thread.



He did not say it was a prophecy. And he would not say it, because he would have to had said - "thus saith the Lord. A very serious offense in Judaism if it was not a message from God.

He was giving his opinion, conjecture. It did not say dream or vision that he had. The article did not say the basis for his expectation.


I think I have better handle on it than you. I am not excusing myself from this thread. I like the opportunity this site gives for me to express myself.

What the Jews believe is based upon the Tanach and Talmud. And as far as the scriptures go, if you are just quoting those thinking that those reveal what the Jews believe - think again.

What the Jews (Judaism) believe is how they interpret those scriptures - which is completely different than Christianity. Which a person to know what they believe, must go to their websites and read, and augment that with discussion with Jews themselves, or ask questions at their sites, or watch videos on You Tube made by them regarding their beliefs.

 

[Ronald]

I don't need qualification for this Rabbi's prediction. He said the Messiah is coming before the end of the Sabbatical year! That is a PREDICTION. When someone says something is going to happen, especially something significant like Jesus return, IT IS A PREDICTION -- HELLO! He is not claiming to be a prophet of God, nor is he adding scripture to the Bible "thus says the Lord". I would say there is a good possibly that God is guiding this man and giving him direction as to what he should say and do in the same way the Holy Spirit takes over a pastor's sermon and gives him words to say. Btw, all your knowledge is null and void to what this Rabbi said - it has no purpose on this post. I am simply relaying a quote, an article, dates of holy days, eclipses, and comment on the Iranian deal. Actually no one needs any knowledge whatsoever of the Bible as a whole or in part to do this. But "you made 4005 posts over tens years with Jews ... on their sites and you have this understanding ... and he did not say it was a prophecy." Oh, brother. Take it of leave it.
Btw, "the Prince who is to come" was Jesus who came. Know this, misinterpret Daniel 9:24-27 as a reference to the antichrist and you will get all tripped up. You are most likely very confused about how Revelation is structured as well - reading the chapters and events within as if they were all in a chronological order - wrong.
You know what the real problem is, if this Rabbi is correct and these things come to pass, Islam is the Beast (not a revived Roman empire), it will prove much of your commentary on prophecy over the last ten years to be wrong. Men who have written books on the subject, who also misinterpreted the 70 weeks of Daniel and the Revived Roman Empire as the Beast, who propagated the Pre-Trib or Post Trib or Amellennial views will also have to eat crow. But go ahead, continue and tell us all when you reach 5000 posts, will throw party for ya! Maybe you'll receive a badge next to your name.

 

[Douggg]

You know what the real problem is, if this Rabbi is correct and these things come to pass,

What is your basis for saying the rabbi is correct and that their messiah will show this fall ?

 

[Douggg]

I don't need qualification for this Rabbi's prediction. He said the Messiah is coming before the end of the Sabbatical year! That is a PREDICTION. When someone says something is going to happen, especially something significant like Jesus return, IT IS A PREDICTION -- HELLO!

Well, you were the guy calling it a prophecy, and I was correcting you. You wrote....

"I am just reporting a prophecy, which was uttered by a Rabbi; (a prophecy that apparently he believes is from God - whether from a dream or vision) and some other currents events that will soon be visible to Israel!"

....and now you are turning it around as if I am the one who made the mistake - by now calling it a prediction.

And now you say he is right. Again what is your basis to say he is right about their messiah will show this fall ? Who is their messiah in bible prophecy that is going to show this fall ?

 

[Douggg]

Btw, "the Prince who is to come" was Jesus who came.

Jesus's people were the Romans ? What is your bible basis for that point of view.

 

[Ronald]

Well, you were the guy calling it a prophecy, and I was correcting you. You wrote....

"I am just reporting a prophecy, which was uttered by a Rabbi; (a prophecy that apparently he believes is from God - whether from a dream or vision) and some other currents events that will soon be visible to Israel!"

....and now you are turning it around as if I am the one who made the mistake - by now calling it a prediction.

And now you say he is right. Again what is your basis to say he is right about their messiah will show this fall ? Who is their messiah in bible prophecy that is going to show this fall ?

Prophecy >1. A prediction made under divine influence and direction 2. Any prediction 3. Discourse delivered by a prophet under divine inspiration. 4. A book of prophecies
So this Rabbi would fall under definition #1 or #2. The only qualification that prophets had in the OT was their record or accuracy, if they had none and it was there first, then they were tested as Daniel was with Nebuchadnezzar. God gives us words and direction. Do not think He is not giving Jews direction and their Rabbis, especially during this time in history where men will have visions and dreams. Scripture is finished and no one said he was adding to it.

 

[Straightshot]

The only genuine prophets are the Bible prophets .... and their accounts are complete

Any others who come and claim to be prophets, are false prophets .... speculating with motive

There will two of the Lord's prophets operating during the second 1260 days of the 70th week decreed for Israel in Jerusalem [Revelation 11] .... but these have not yet appeared, but when they do all will know by their supernatural abilities

 

[Ronald]

Jesus's people were the Romans ? What is your bible basis for that point of view.

What? I never said Jesus people were the Romans. But since you mention it, all people who put their faith in Him are His and then some who are written in the Book of Life and not yet have been enlightened. Jews would fall under this category. Again Romans 11 explains it.

What is your basis for saying the rabbi is correct and that their messiah will show this fall ?

I didn't say he was correct, I am just reporting what he did say that coincides with other events coming soon.
Do I have to explain every detail to you? I already commented on Dan 9:24-27 as being a reference to Jesus' First Coming and also the 70th week as well. Can you compute that -- whether I'm wrong or right?
We have different interpretations of the end times. You and your ilk are adherenst to a revived Roman Empire. I get it and had gotten it 20 years ago. The 70th week of Daniel is an popular view that goes along with it -- I understand it, read books about, realize that many brilliant teachers like John MacArthur teach it -- I just don't agree with it. I believe that the Beast is Islam! Islam has always been antichrist and anti-Semitic. They are currently perpetrators of terror in the world, and in the Middle East, they are the axis of evil, raping, pillaging, plundering, and chopping off heads. Millions of Christians are and have been persecuted by them and NOW IRAN with their nuclear problem who shouts death to American and death to Israel, while funding Hezbollah and Hamas are the perpetrators of EVIL. ISIS is also spreading. Both are Islamic. DOES THIS COMPUTE TO YOU? THIS IS REALITY AND IT IS FROM SATAN. If you don't think this represents ALL that evil is and that a group of nations (10) can be listed under this premise as Islamic, then we have nothing more to say. Just keep waiting for this Roman Empire to emerge -- you'll snap out of it.
Here's something else you can chew on.
Gog is a demonic prince of a region in the world called Magog. This region of Rosh, Meshech and Tubal, most scholars would consider to be Russia and the former countries of the Soviet Union. Much of the former Soviet Union consists of Islamic nations. I think we can be on the same page that Russia and these countries have been controlled by demonic forces.
This is my view for the last time: The Beast is a group of Islamic nations. Islam has always been antichrist and anti-Semetic and is currently the major threat to the planet.
The Beast (a nation or group of nations ordered by Satan) has manifested itself in the past as Babylonian, Assyria, Medo-Persian, Egyptian and Roman empires and they all persecuted the Jews. But it is now manifested as Islamic countries that will soon attack Israel. Why can't you see the obvious in front of your face?
A leader will emerge (the little horn) and unite these many nations. These nations have been around for a long time. In scripture we see Togarmah, Cush, Phut, Persia, Egypt, Eithopia, Gomer, Assyria, and many post soviet nations. Satan is gathering Islamic nations to ignite the finale battle -- with Russia and China in support of Iran and Syria --- H E L L O!
If this doesn't compute, you must be in a fog and soooo determined and clinging onto your revived Roman Empire view, that you will deny WHAT EVIL IS HAPPENING IN THE WORLD RIGHT NOW! You know, if you are a Democrat following Obama, that would explain everything, those guys are under a spell and living in an alternative universe, in denial and naïve.
I rest my case, take it or leave it, please.

 

[Douggg]

What? I never said Jesus people were the Romans.

Ronald, in the text the people of the prince who shall come, destroy the city and sanctuary. The Romans did that in 70 AD.

Therefore, since you say Jesus is the prince who shall come - his people would by that rationale be the Romans. Which of course is not correct, and why Jesus is not the prince who shall come.

 

[Douggg]

You and your ilk are adherenst to a revived Roman Empire. I get it and had gotten it 20 years ago.

Actually you don't hear me use that term. I use the term end times version of the Roman Empire.

The reason I don't use the term "revived" Roman Empire is that many people are of the view that the beast in the bottomless pit, Revelation 17:8a, that was, is not, yet is - is talking about the Roman Empire. I don't hold that view. So I don't use the term "revived Roman Empire".

I believe that the Beast is Islam! Islam has always been antichrist and anti-Semitic. They are currently perpetrators of terror in the world, and in the Middle East, they are the axis of evil, raping, pillaging, plundering, and chopping off heads. Millions of Christians are and have been persecuted by them and NOW IRAN with their nuclear problem who shouts death to American and death to Israel, while funding Hezbollah and Hamas are the perpetrators of EVIL. ISIS is also spreading. Both are Islamic. DOES THIS COMPUTE TO YOU? THIS IS REALITY AND IT IS FROM SATAN. If you don't think this represents ALL that evil is and that a group of nations (10) can be listed under this premise as Islamic, then we have nothing more to say. Just keep waiting for this Roman Empire to emerge -- you'll snap out of it.
Here's something else you can chew on.
Gog is a demonic prince of a region in the world called Magog. This region of Rosh, Meshech and Tubal, most scholars would consider to be Russia and the former countries of the Soviet Union. Much of the former Soviet Union consists of Islamic nations. I think we can be on the same page that Russia and these countries have been controlled by demonic forces.

Islam plays an end time role in the invasion of Gog/Magog Ezekiel 38/39. But Islam is not around in any meaningful
way, when the 7 years begin, and certainly not the last 42 months when the beast is ruling the world.

Since you believe that Islam is the Gog/Magog force, then in Ezekiel 39, there are two feasts on the bodies of them destroyed. The first feast is in Ezekiel 39:4 - which is on the armies of the muslims invaders, Islam judged and destroyed as a relevant religion, much like communism no longer a factor to like it once was.

From Ezekiel 39:4, the verses focus upon the cleanup of the land and the burning of the war implements for 7 years.
The cleanup verses and conclusion of the Gog/Magog invasion ends in Ezekiel 39:16.

The next half of Ezekiel 39, is at the end of the 7 years and Jesus having returned. The second half of Ezekiel 39 begins with the feast on the dead bodies from the destruction of them by the Lord at His Return in Revelation 19.

That feast is the Armageddon feast, Ezekiel 39:17-20, coming 7 years after the destruction of the Gog/Magog force, and the end of Islam.

Following the destruction of Gog//Magog, and the end of Islam, the prince who shall come, coming from the EU with his army to occupy the middle East and secure all of the oil fields for the Europeans, will be embraced by the Jews as their long awaited messiah, and will be anointed the King of Israel, the Antichrist, for a short time of 3 1/2 years, nominally speaking.

 

[Straightshot]

"I get it and had gotten it 20 years ago. The 70th week of Daniel is an popular view that goes along with it -- I understand it, read books about, realize that many brilliant teachers like John MacArthur teach it -- I just don't agree with it. I believe that the Beast is Islam! Islam has always been antichrist and anti-Semitic."


You have the right people, they are the Muslims of the Middle East today .... the prophetic scriptures identify them by their ethnic lineage .... no doubt

The prince that shall come is the little horn of Daniel's visions, not a Roman in the first century

70 AD is not in any prophetic vision, but only a matter of recorded history .... this event cannot be found in any prophetic vision and the ancient Roman Empire is not there either .... all of this and even to this day lies in the breach of silence between the ending of the 69th week [the Lord's cutting off], and the coming 70th week and beyond

You also need to consider that the Lord is the One who confirms the covenant that He has with Israel during the coming 70th week still pending .... and all of the objectives listed in Daniel 9:24 will be met for Israel at the time [Daniel does not include the church of today in the vision which was revealed later, and after the 69th week]

If you can get your head around this truth you will then have the correct and full rendering of the prince that shall come and his people .... the Muslims are there and the little horn is still to appear at this time

Many preachers and teachers have missed this fundamental truth by interpreting Daniel 9 in error .... And John MacArthur is now beginning to get the proper perspective, however most still cling to reformation theology related to Daniel's visions

And you are also correct about Satan's [gog's] nesting in northwestern Mesopotamia .... still the same since the flood .... the "land" of magog .... the idea that the prince of rosh is Russian based is bogus .... "rosh" means "head prince", and in this case a reference to the prince of the fallen angels [Ezekiel 38:17]

You are also correct about the sealing of the 144,000 and Lord's protection of the 1/3 of Israel .... but to date any of this is not possible by anyone because the Lord has not revealed it

On the other hand, it does appear that the stage is setting up for the time of the end which will play out in the Middle East and will affect the entire earth .... but the Lord may tarry longer and for a good reason [2 Peter 3:8-9]

 

[Ronald]

What is your basis for saying the rabbi is correct and that their messiah will show this fall ?

[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], "IF" he is correct. Over the years I have examined scriptures and the significant events which have occurred in the last 67 years and have tried to identify signs and the season when all these things will take place. A solar eclipse and blood moon in Rev. 6:12 are key signs I would say, unless you interpret that to be symbolic for something else. The fact that in 1948 Israel became a nation is a major sign. In 1967, Jerusalem was recaptured -- major sign. Of course we look at Matthew 24, Daniel 12, Joel 2, and Rev. 6-21. We look at a great nation that is not so great anymore with abortions since 1974 and now gay marriage. Obviously (to me) what has transpired in the Middle East in the last five years is nothing short of a pronounced spiritual war that is going on and the stage being set for ... we shall see. Then I read books about the economy which claim another collapse looming possibly this year. We all try to put the pieces together and there are many views of course which leads to arguments, insults, separate houses. I won't even bother with Amillennials anymore, it's like trying to talk to a Democrat. If this Rabbi gave any other date then this I might not be so moved. But the way I see it, the GT should begin before 2018, in this generation or else I don't have a clue when.
What else would you need for a basis -- it's a puzzle, yet, I think I put it together correctly ... maybe not. Again if you don't think so, fine.

 

[Ronald]

Ronald, in the text the people of the prince who shall come, destroy the city and sanctuary. The Romans did that in 70 AD.

Therefore, since you say Jesus is the prince who shall come - his people would by that rationale be the Romans. Which of course is not correct, and why Jesus is not the prince who shall come.

vs. 25 reads "Messiah the Prince". Is God sovereign? Good and evil are woven throughout history. He allows evil for a purpose. So in essence, He destroyed the sanctuary and the city, did He not? He destroyed the world in a flood and He will destroy the world system and kill billions of people in the Great Tribulation. Actually, the day he died on the cross, the sanctuary became null and void -- it was destroyed. The Holy Spirit did not dwell there and from that time, any animal sacrifices were spiritually useless. Jesus himself prophesied about the fall of Jerusalem, "not one stone will be on another ..."
He did it -- do you have a problem understanding this?

 

[Ronald]

"I get it and had gotten it 20 years ago. The 70th week of Daniel is an popular view that goes along with it -- I understand it, read books about, realize that many brilliant teachers like John MacArthur teach it -- I just don't agree with it. I believe that the Beast is Islam! Islam has always been antichrist and anti-Semitic."


You have the right people, they are the Muslims of the Middle East today .... the prophetic scriptures identify them by their ethnic lineage .... no doubt

The prince that shall come is the little horn of Daniel's visions, not a Roman in the first century

70 AD is not in any prophetic vision, but only a matter of recorded history .... this event cannot be found in any prophetic vision and the ancient Roman Empire is not there either .... all of this and even to this day lies in the breach of silence between the ending of the 69th week [the Lord's cutting off], and the coming 70th week and beyond

You also need to consider that the Lord is the One who confirms the covenant that He has with Israel during the coming 70th week still pending .... and all of the objectives listed in Daniel 9:24 will be met for Israel at the time [Daniel does not include the church of today in the vision which was revealed later, and after the 69th week]

If you can get your head around this truth you will then have the correct and full rendering of the prince that shall come and his people .... the Muslims are there and the little horn is still to appear at this time

Many preachers and teachers have missed this fundamental truth by interpreting Daniel 9 in error .... And John MacArthur is now beginning to get the proper perspective, however most still cling to reformation theology related to Daniel's visions

And you are also correct about Satan's [gog's] nesting in northwestern Mesopotamia .... still the same since the flood .... the "land" of magog .... the idea that the prince of rosh is Russian based is bogus .... "rosh" means "head prince", and in this case a reference to the prince of the fallen angels [Ezekiel 38:17]

You are also correct about the sealing of the 144,000 and Lord's protection of the 1/3 of Israel .... but to date any of this is not possible by anyone because the Lord has not revealed it

On the other hand, it does appear that the stage is setting up for the time of the end which will play out in the Middle East and will affect the entire earth .... but the Lord may tarry longer and for a good reason [2 Peter 3:8-9]

I respect the scholars who view the 70th week of Daniel, the revived Roman Empire scenario, I just don't see it that way. So stop trying to convince me, I've been examining it for years and have come to an understanding I am comfortable with -- not to mention the pronounced movement of Islam is right in our faces. Is the EU doing anything that resembles this Beast or even the U.S. ? Islam has Satan's signature all over it. Rev. 20:4 speaks volumes of what is going on right now - BEHEADING!

 

[Straightshot]

My comment

The stage is setting up in the Middle East .... no doubt .... just a matter of time for the curtain to rise

And the Lord only knows the dating

The central issue .... the controversy between Israel and the followers of the false prophet Mohammed .... between Issac and Ishmael

This offset will lead directly to the battle of Armageddon where the Lord will break in and settle the controversy once and for all

There will be no pre-70th week war which will destroy the Islamic masses in the Middle East and expand Israel to the Euphrates ... this is an inserted speculation by some of the "rapture ready" crowd and is not a part of any prophetic vision

This speculation has been offered by some for the purpose of retaining Euro-centric "antichrist" theology telling that once the Muslim intransigence is obliterated in the Middle East by a pseudo-pre-tribulation war not found in the scope of the prophet's visions, then a Euro-little horn will come and attempt to destroy Israel for some advantage

However, the prophets all tell a very different perspective including Israel's expanded territory to come after the battle of Armageddon at the end of the tribulation period [Ezekiel 38; 39; 40-48] and not before .... Armageddon will essentially be a war between the Lord leading Israel, and the satanically driven adherents of Islam in the Middle East

This little horn and his followers are described to be Middle Eastern based, and not from western European vestiges [Daniel 7:7-25; 8:9-25; 9:26-27 [the other prince that shall come]; 11:36-45: 12:7; Joel 2:20; Micah 5: 5-6]

And this one will not be of the nation of Israel as some speculate .... he will be Israel's virulent enemy from the get go

Satan's beast in the human little horn ... a king of northwestern Mesopotamia [Syria/Iraq to day] [Revelation 9:11; 11:2; 13:1-4; 17:8-18]

 

[Ronald]

My comment

The stage is setting up in the Middle East .... no doubt .... just a matter of time for the curtain to rise

And the Lord only knows the dating

The central issue .... the controversy between Israel and the followers of the false prophet Mohammed .... between Issac and Ishmael

This offset will lead directly to the battle of Armageddon where the Lord will break in and settle the controversy once and for all

There will be no pre-70th week war which will destroy the Islamic masses in the Middle East and expand Israel to the Euphrates ... this is an inserted speculation by some of the "rapture ready" crowd and is not a part of any prophetic vision

This speculation has been offered by some for the purpose of retaining Euro-centric "antichrist" theology telling that once the Muslim intransigence is obliterated in the Middle East by a pseudo-war pre-tribulation war not found in the scope of the prophet's visions, then a Euro-little horn will come and attempt to destroy Israel for some advantage

However, the prophets all tell a very different perspective including Israel's expanded territory to come after the battle of Armageddon at the end of the tribulation period [Ezekiel 38; 39; 40-48] and not before .... Armageddon will essentially be a war between the Lord leading Israel, and the satanically driven adherents of Islam in the Middle East

This little horn and his followers are described to be Middle Eastern based, and not from western European vestiges [Daniel 7:7-25; 8:9-25; 9:26-27 [the other prince that shall come]; 11:36-45: 12:7; Joel 2:20; Micah 5: 5-6]

And this one will not be of the nation of Israel as some speculate .... he will be Israel's virulent enemy from the get go

Satan's beast in the human little horn ... a king of northwestern Mesopotamia [Syria/Iraq to day] [Revelation 9:11; 11:2; 13:1-4; 17:8-18]

Capisce!

 

[Douggg]

[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], "IF" he is correct. Over the years I have examined scriptures and the significant events which have occurred in the last 67 years and have tried to identify signs and the season when all these things will take place. A solar eclipse and blood moon in Rev. 6:12 are key signs I would say, unless you interpret that to be symbolic for something else. The fact that in 1948 Israel became a nation is a major sign. In 1967, Jerusalem was recaptured -- major sign. Of course we look at Matthew 24, Daniel 12, Joel 2, and Rev. 6-21. We look at a great nation that is not so great anymore with abortions since 1974 and now gay marriage. Obviously (to me) what has transpired in the Middle East in the last five years is nothing short of a pronounced spiritual war that is going on and the stage being set for ... we shall see. Then I read books about the economy which claim another collapse looming possibly this year. We all try to put the pieces together and there are many views of course which leads to arguments, insults, separate houses. I won't even bother with Amillennials anymore, it's like trying to talk to a Democrat. If this Rabbi gave any other date then this I might not be so moved. But the way I see it, the GT should begin before 2018, in this generation or else I don't have a clue when.
What else would you need for a basis -- it's a puzzle, yet, I think I put it together correctly ... maybe not. Again if you don't think so, fine.

Ronald, regarding signs, there has to be a biblical basis. That some rabbi makes a prediction that their messiah will arrive this fall is not a biblical basis. He doesn't say why. And is in fact wrong, because there are bibical reasons it can't happen without major biblical events that must take place first.

In the first century, the main rabbi in Judaism, Akiva, proclaimed Simon bar Kochba was the messiah. Was that a sign that the end times events of Revelation and Daniel were about to take place? No. Because other major events in the bible have to take place first.

You can take the blood moons and solar eclipses and throw those interpretations into the trash can, regarding having any
relevancy to Revelation 6, the sixth seal. It will not be a case of natural periodic occurring phenomena. There is nothing in history that will compare to what is going to take place.

The expansion of the homo-sexual agenda - yes, that is a sign, because it will be like the days of Lot and judgement came upon Sodom and Gomorrah.

Luke 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

On the other hand, regarding the collapse of the economy - where in the bible is that a sign? Read verse 17 above. Business as usual. There was the Great Depression back in the 30's, was that a sign of the end times? Did the end times take place then? There might be a major shaking coming worldwide, but, otherwise,it will be business as usual (which is a condition, not a sign) when the end times events rapidly begin to take place - starting with the kingdom of the ten kings materializing in the EU, which will be a major sign.

The age of the computer and rapid transportation of cars and jets - is a sign because of what it says in Daniel 12:4 regarding the end times,

Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

 

[Douggg]

vs. 25 reads "Messiah the Prince". Is God sovereign? Good and evil are woven throughout history. He allows evil for a purpose. So in essence, He destroyed the sanctuary and the city, did He not? He destroyed the world in a flood and He will destroy the world system and kill billions of people in the Great Tribulation. Actually, the day he died on the cross, the sanctuary became null and void -- it was destroyed. The Holy Spirit did not dwell there and from that time, any animal sacrifices were spiritually useless. Jesus himself prophesied about the fall of Jerusalem, "not one stone will be on another ..."
He did it -- do you have a problem understanding this?

"....do you have a problem understanding this?"

I have a problem with the notion that Jesus's people were Romans, and that Jesus is the prince who shall come. Because Jesus's people were the Jews, and in its in the text of the Bible that John 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

You are simply wrong, and when confronted with the reality of the Romans having destroyed the temple and city - go about some twisting rationale to compensate to make the absurd claim that Jesus's people were the Romans. Your view is wrong. That's the trouble, Ronald.

 

[classicalhero]

Currently there is no prophecy that isn't concerning the second coming of Christ that hasn't been fulfilled, so we are just waiting for Christ to come, but while we wait we should be preaching the gospel as our main concern.