The Medieval Inquisition: An overview.

[kepha31]

I dare you to read the following article:
http://www.crisismagazine.com/2011/the-truth-about-the-spanish-inquisition

It shows that torture and execution were secular solutions to heresy, that conversion was the Church's solution.

What's great about that link is that crisismagazine is not a Catholic publication, so there is no doctrinal bias in the content. People who use the Inquisition as a bat to beat Catholics with are going on outdated information. New scholarly research dispels much of the myths, but it hasn't filtered down to the general public. Monty Python Flying Circus is not a good source of information, but consumed wholesale by bigots. That's why they are so fat.

 

[lismore]

Anyone who was professing heresy or apostasy or anti-Christian stuff was a danger to themselves and society.

Hello there. Thank you for your reply. There was perhaps a perceived threat to society by someone who believed differently at that time, but by no means a real threat. Indeed in my own home town a preacher, George Wishart was burned at the stake for preaching the gospel by Cardinal Beaton. Indeed the truth of the gospel is for the betterment of those who believe. God Bless.

 

[Albion]

I dare you to read the following article:
http://www.crisismagazine.com/2011/the-truth-about-the-spanish-inquisition

It shows that torture and execution were secular solutions to heresy, that conversion was the Church's solution.

First, to cite a publication put out by and for the church that engaged in this brutality is not credible, and second, the church most certainly did engage in all of this. Saying that the church's way was conversion while the state was into punitive actions is flatly untrue.

That was an era where there hardly was any separation of church and state, largely because the church fought against it, saying that God's will, exercised through his church, should control all aspects of society. Not only were the gruesome tortures and executions ordered by the church but church officials routinely carried them out themselves.

 

[Root of Jesse]

First, to cite a publication put out by and for the church that engaged in this brutality is not credible, and second, the church most certainly did engage in all of this. Saying that the church's way was conversion while the state was into punitive actions is flatly untrue.

That was an era where there hardly was any separation of church and state, largely because the church fought against it, saying that God's will, exercised through his church, should control all aspects of society. Not only were the gruesome tortures and executions ordered by the church but church officials routinely carried them out themselves.

First, that site is not a publication put out by the church. So your first objection has no weight. Same with your second objection. No weight whatsoever. As always, the state had their agenda, the church had hers. The state's agenda was good order and discipline, the Church's was salvation of souls.
To refute your second point, let's look at the agendas of the State and the Church in regard to exploration of the New World. The stated purpose of the Spanish in exploring the New World was to fill their coffers with gold. The Church's agenda, in participating in exploring the New World, was evangelization. They were often at odds.

Your second paragraph has been refuted by secular and church authorities. The Inquisition kept very detailed records which show that your 'common knowledge' is incorrect.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Hello there. Thank you for your reply. There was perhaps a perceived threat to society by someone who believed differently at that time, but by no means a real threat. Indeed in my own home town a preacher, George Wishart was burned at the stake for preaching the gospel by Cardinal Beaton. Indeed the truth of the gospel is for the betterment of those who believe. God Bless.

The problem is that to a Catholic, a Protestant preaching the gospel is preaching heresy, at that time. Try seeing things through the eyes of those who lived then, rather than the way it is today. Granted, today, it would be intolerable.

 

[Albion]

First, that site is not a publication put out by the church. [ So your first objection has no weight.

I also wrote "FOR the church," and I hope you're not intending to argue that a source that bills itself as the "Voice for the Faithful Catholic laity" is really non-denominational!

 

[W2L]

Are we actually at the point now of defending the Inquisition? Good grief.

That's denominationalism for you.

 

[Albion]

That's denominationalism for you.

Maybe not. There aren't many denominations that would defend the Inquisition. Then again there aren't many denominations that would need to.

 

[W2L]

Maybe not. There aren't many denominations that would defend the Inquisition. Then again there aren't many denominations that would need to.

Yes, true.

 

[Phil 1:21]

That's denominationalism for you.

More like blind obedience to men.

 

[Root of Jesse]

I also wrote "FOR the church," and I hope you're not intending to argue that a source that bills itself as the "Voice for the Faithful Catholic laity" is really non-denominational!

Your statement was that it was put out BY and FOR the Church. It's not put out by the Church, at all, in fact, all the staff are lay Catholics.
I don't really care what publication it was written in, I care about the author. Thomas Madden is an authority on Medieval History.
Of course, it's pretty common, when you cannot refute the source with at least one by someone of equal stature, you disparage the magazine it was written in. That's pretty common.

Where did I say it's non-denominational, anyway? Besides, entities bill themselves all the time as something when they not be. I actually doubt that there are many Catholics in that diocese who believe everything written in that publication. But the truth of the document speaks for itself.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Maybe not. There aren't many denominations that would defend the Inquisition. Then again there aren't many denominations that would need to.

I'd say there's nothing to defend, as it was the source of justice during its time.

 

[SolomonVII]

It was a question, not an accusation.

Good grief.

 

[Traveling teacher]

The inquisition in Spain began in 1492....the exact same day Columbus sailed to America.....
Many docusments have shown Columbus to be a believing Jew or a messianic Jew though his race was hidden...because of the inquisition....
The Spanish inquisition targeted Jews Muslims and non-conforming christians.....

Protestants dont have a good footing here with Martin Luther writing obout persecuting Jews...
Written in 1543 "the Jews and their Lies"On the Jews and Their Lies - Wikipedia

Another note I do believe Pope John Paul??? apologized for the catholics church involvement in the inquistion and persecution of Jews and others in 2001?????

I dont believe I have heard of a Lutheran church leader apologize for their anti-semetism through thier Leader martin luther???????? but I could be wrong????

 

[Albion]

I dont believe I have heard of a Lutheran church leader apologize for their anti-semetism through thier Leader martin luther???????? but I could be wrong????

First, it might be a good idea to show some reason to think that "Lutherans" are anti-Semitic.

 

[Traveling teacher]

You need to read the links...
"On the Jews and Their Lies - Wikipedia
Jews welcome Dutch church declaration calling Martin Luther's anti-Semitism 'unacceptable' :: World Jewish Congress
Was Luther Anti-Semitic?
Rabbi: Church should apologize for Luther's anti-Semitism

I beliieve this fall is the 500th aniversay of Martin Luthers declarations of freddom or 95 thesis???
which marks the beginning of protestantism......
Some smaller lutheran church leaders have acknowledged and apologized but I dont think there has been a public denounciation from the Heads of the Lutheran church against his hatred of the Jews in Martin Luthers writtings???

 

[Albion]

I've seen and heard many Lutherans, including prominent ones, disavow Luther's comments on this subject. That, however, isn't what I was most interested in addressing.

It was more about your statement that you'd never heard a Lutheran leader apologize for "their anti-semetism [sic]."

What makes you think Lutherans are anti-Semitic?

 

[FireDragon76]

I dont think there has been a public denounciation from the Heads of the Lutheran church against his hatred of the Jews in Martin Luthers writtings???

Yes, there has been, for many years. Lutherans are not anti-semitic. "On the Jews and their lies" is not a significant part of our theology, and never has been, really. It was taken up by certain German nationalists in the 20th century, though.

 

[Traveling teacher]

Let me restate this...

I didnt mean to say all lutherans are anti-semetic......
Are any only God knows that!!
I said Luther and his writings and his instructions to his folowers were anti-simetic.......
Amd yes some did follow through on his intructions to persecute the Jews and yes it was rooted in Germany and the holacaust......

I am a protestant not a catholic.....
This discusiion was about catholic inquisition...
The point i am trying to make is we as protestants cant point the finger at the catholics unless we have the same judgement on the founding leader of the protestant movement.........
The pope apologises for persecution of jew....
Pope says sorry for sins of church

Should we do no less as protestants are continue to cover it up like it had nothing to do with Hitler holacaust....

Have Lutheran leaders properly apologized for this????
Aparently many Jewish rabbis do not believe it yet???
Read the article the rabbi says they still have anti-semetic emblems carved into lutheran churches in Germany....
Although they are trying to remove them before the 500th aniversary of Luther....???

Let me give a modern day example......
Slavery was 150 years ago in america......
Just because we are no longer slave owners did not mean that we do not have a responsibility to reconcile with our brothers of color as many ministers did durinng the 60s with martin Luther king .....and recently....

Until his writings are disavowed by proper authorities???they will again be carried out by another Hitler and the halacaust will continue........

Anti semitism still prevails in europe today...
Terorists in france specifically target jews....
A Reign of Terror for Jews in France

A muslim terorist in america targeted a group of jews and christians on Christmas...specifically a messianic jew
Rabbi: San Bernardino Terrorist Targeted 'Messianic Jew'

Look at amerca...synagages and cemtaries have been disagraded and threatened just in the last few months
Jewish cemetery vandalized in New York, third case in recent weeks - CNN.com

All i am saying is maybe we should have adiferent aproach and show the love of Christ to Jews instead of the actions of our forefathers.....

 

[Phil 1:21]

I said Luther and his writings and his instructions to his folowers were anti-simetic.......

And this has what to do with anyone living today?