The Lord's Day and the Sabbath are different days of the week

[W2L]

The today is not to harden your heart to God's WORD v7. The other day is in reference to the Gospel v8. You cannot enter God's Sabbath rest v9 without entering the Gospel rest v2

No, see here:

Hebrews 4:7 God again set a certain day, calling it “Today.”

 

[LoveGodsWord]

No, see here:

Hebrews 4:7 God again set a certain day, calling it “Today.”

Already referenced in the post your quoting from. its a warning not to harden your heart by not believing and following God's WORD.

The v's are the verse numbers for HEBREWS 4.

The today is not to harden your heart to God's WORD v7. The other day is in reference to the Gospel v8. You cannot enter God's Sabbath rest v9 without entering the Gospel rest v2

Take a look at the linked post provided earlier. You will find it interesting how it linked Hebrews 3 and Hebrews 4 back to the OT scriptures that Paul is referring to.

CLICK HERE VERSE BY VERSE HEBREWS 3 and HEBREWS 4 NT to OT linked.

Have to go now nice to see you

 

[W2L]

Already referenced in the post your quoting from. its a warning not to harden your heart by not believing and following God's WORD.

The v's are the verse numbers for HEBREWS 4.

The today is not to harden your heart to God's WORD v7. The other day is in reference to the Gospel v8. You cannot enter God's Sabbath rest v9 without entering the Gospel rest v2

Take a look at the linked post provided earlier. You will find it interesting how it linked Hebrews 3 and Hebrews 4 back to the OT scriptures that Paul is referring to.

CLICK HERE VERSE BY VERSE HEBREWS 3 and HEBREWS 4 NT to OT linked.

Have to go now nice to see you

Ok gotcha, i understand you now.. You are saying there are two sabbath rests. You say we cant enter OT sabbath keeping unless we first enter the gospel rest? That isnt a convincing argument.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Ok gotcha, i understand you now.. You are saying there are two sabbath rests. You say we cant enter OT sabbath keeping unless we first enter the gospel rest? That isnt a convincing argument.

No I am not saying there is two Sabbath rests. There is only one Sabbath rest and one Gospel rest but you cannot have one without the other.

God's WORD is not trying to be an argument. That is what the scriptures teach in Hebrews 3 and Hebrews 4.

Take a look at the link provided above. If not then it is ok you are free to believe and do as you wish. Your salvation is between you and God alone. All answer to him come judgement day.

Keep in mind however that Gods WORD teaches the following..

................

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

 

[W2L]

It is not trying to be an argument. That is what the scriptures teach in Hebrews 3 and Hebrews 4. Take a look at the link provided above. If not then it is ok you are free to believe as you wish.

Keep in mind however that Gods WORD teaches the following..

................

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

I dont follow mans tradition, neither do i believe sunday is a special day of worship. I have read the Lords words, and those of His apostles who wrote the NT. Many things i see commanded in their writings but sabbath isn't one of them. Matter of fact the only time its even mentioned is in a letter written to the Hebrews, not the gentiles. Look at Acts 15, we gentiles are not under Moses law, and neither is any Jew if he has faith enough. Its nice that you obey God, according to your beliefs, but so do i.

 

[BobRyan]

No Bob, Hebrews 4 and Psalm 95 is talking about a different rest.

No matter how you slice it "there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God" on Hebrews 4... that "remains" from what it was in David's day - in Palms 95 is a far cry from "there is No more Sabbath as it was in David's day".

In Hebrews 10 the animal sacrifices laws "taken away"
In Hebrews 4 the Sabbath "remains" as it was in Psalms 95.

 

[BobRyan]

The Sabbath-rest that remains was never observed by the Jews:

Then you don't understand the meaning of "remains" as it was in Psalms 95

It existed in Psalms 95 but not all were saved then just as not all are saved now.

So then

"It still remains that some will enter that rest, and those who formerly had the gospel preached to them did not go in, because of their disobedience." - (Heb 4:6)

Some of Israel went into Canaan -- some did not.
Some are saved... some are not.... still to this very day.


SOME Jews, who formerly had the gospel preached to them "For the Gospel has been preached to US JUST as it was to THEM also" -- did not accept it. Others did accept as Hebrews 11 points out.

Sabbath was "made for all mankind" Mark 2:27 so then "there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God" Hebrews 4

for all eternity after the cross "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23 - so then "there REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God" Heb 4

"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of GOD" 1 Cor 7:19 - so then "there REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God" Heb 4

"the saints KEEP the commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12
so then "there REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God" Heb 4

"love Me and KEEP My Commandments" Exodus 20:6 "if you Love Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15 so then "there REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God" Heb 4

 

[Doveaman]

Then you don't understand the meaning of "remains" as it was in Psalms 95

The Sabbath-rest that remains for the people of God is the promise of rest in the salvation of Christ, the same rest that was promised to Abraham. It is this promise of rest to Abraham that now remains for all who have the same faith as Abraham:

"It was not through the law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith...Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham's offspring" - (Rom 4:13-16).

It is the promise of rest in the salvation of Christ that was guaranteed to all of Abraham's offspring, the same promise of rest that still remains for the people of God 'Today'.

It existed in Psalms 95

The promise of rest existed before Psalms 95.

It was guaranteed to Abraham and his offspring before Psalms 95.

but not all were saved then just as not all are saved now.

You are in effect agreeing with me that the Sabbath-rest that remains is not about the law, but about being saved.

The Sabbath-rest is Psalms 95 is not a Sabbath according to the law, but a Sabbath according to a promise.

The Jews who came out of Egypt observed the Sabbath according to the law given to them in Exodus 20, but they were prevented by God, for lack of faith, from entering the promise of rest in the land of Canaan. They observed the Sabbath-rest according to the law, but did not enter the Sabbath-rest according to the promise.

Hebrews 4 is talking about the Sabbath-rest according to the promise, the promise of rest that still remains for the people of God 'Today':

"It still remains that some will enter that rest...Therefore God again set a certain day, calling it Today...For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God" - (Heb 4:6-10)

The Jews who were delivered from the land of slavery under Moses were given the promise of rest in the land of Canaan under Joshua, but they did not enter that rest for lack of faith.

The people of God who were delivered from the corruption of sin under Christ are also given the promise of rest under Christ, and we enter that rest through faith.

So there is indeed a Sabbath-rest that remains for the people of God, but it is not a Sabbath-rest according to the law; it is a Sabbath-rest according to a promise; a promise of rest in the salvation of Christ:

"Come to Me , all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls." - (Matt 11:28-29)

 

[The7thColporteur]

...Its nice that you obey God, according to your beliefs, but so do i.

Abel and Cain.

 

[The7thColporteur]

...So there is indeed a Sabbath-rest that remains for the people of God, but it is not a Sabbath-rest according to the law; it is a Sabbath-rest according to a promise; a promise of rest in the salvation of Christ:...

All of the law of God is/are promise as demonstrated here:

The ARK of the Covenant HAS BEEN FOUND since AD 1844! The Sabbath Commandment [Ex. 20:8-11] is seen!

Paul speaking of the first commandment of the second table:

Ephesians 6:2 KJB - Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise

Where is that "promise" written I wonder ... hmmm...​

Hebrews 3-4 [KJB], the 7th Day the Sabbath of the LORD JEHOVAH - "my rest" "remaineth" to My people.

There's an elephant in this room me thinks ... I can see it

 

[BobRyan]

Many Christians, particularly those in Evangelical circles would say that Sunday is like the "Christian Sabbath" in which people must come to church and refrain from work. This was seen at Puritan colonies in New England. This eventually evolved to Sunday Laws in the US. The laws forbid working or selling things. To break one of the Sunday Laws would get you stripped of your food allowance for the week on the first offense. On the third offense, the Sunday Laws breaker could be executed. The idea among Christians that the Lord's Day, Sunday, is the Sabbath still has influences on Western society today.

While I agree that what is posted there is the history of it in the U.S.

But I do not agree that in the Bible the Lord's Day is Sunday , or that in the Bible the Lord's Day and the Sabbath are different days.

However I do agree with you that the Sabbath is on Saturday - not Sunday.

=============================

from - Catechism of the Catholic Church - The third commandment

ARTICLE 3

THE THIRD COMMANDMENT

Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor, and do all your work; but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work.90

The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath; so the Son of Man is lord even of the Sabbath.91

* I. THE SABBATH DAY

2168 The third commandment of the Decalogue recalls the holiness of the Sabbath: "The seventh day is the Sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the LORD."92

2169 In speaking of the Sabbath Scripture recalls creation: "For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it."93

2170 Scripture also reveals in the Lord's day a memorial of Israel's liberation from bondage in Egypt: "You shall remember that you were a servant in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out thence with mighty hand and outstretched arm; therefore the LORD your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day."94

=================

from "The Faith Explained"


Amazon describes "The Faith Explained" this way.

Amazon ad for "The Faith Explained"
The Faith Explained is an all-in-one handbook to help you understand, explain, and defend the great truths of the Catholic Faith. In brief and readable chapters, it explains the purpose of human existence, God and His perfections, the creation and fall of man, the Incarnation, the Redemption, the sacraments, sacramentals, prayer, the importance of the Bible, and much more. Perfect for RCIA classes, this book is also a magnificent refresher course on the Faith for Catholics and an illuminating resource for non-Catholics with questions about the Church.

The Catholic commentary on the Baltimore catechism post Vatican II

This RC document explains that keeping Sunday is in obedience to the Sabbath commandment. Catholics attend "in obedience to the third commandment of God 'remember thou keep holy the Lord's day'" ((from "The Faith Explained" pg 241.))

( "The Faith Explained" - page 242-243.)
"we know that in the Old Testament it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day - which was observed as the Lord’s Day. That was the law as God gave it...'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day..the early Christian church determined as the Lord’s Day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident...the reason for changing the Lord’s Day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord’s Day from Saturday to Sunday..that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord’s Day on the say-so of the catholic church.

 

[BobRyan]

Hebrews 4 is Gods commandment,

Hebrews 4 says the Sabbath "remains" as it was in Psalms 95 ... to this very day.

Question for you -- are all these NT texts -- quoting Hebrews 4 in your POV?



And the one that chooses to listen to God "today" will see God saying this

"Love Me and KEEP My Commandments" Ex 20:6
"if you Love Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15
"this IS the Love of God that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 3:4
"Honor your father and mother...is the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2
"Keep the Commandments" and then Jesus is asked "Which ones"...then He quotes from the TEN Matt 19

 

[W2L]

Hebrews 4 says the Sabbath "remains" as it was in Psalms 95 ... to this very day.

No, its not talking about the seventh day sabbath

 

[W2L]

Abel and Cain.

Whats that mean?

 

[BobRyan]

Sabbath existed in Psalms 95 but not all were saved then just as not all are saved now.

So then

"It still remains that some will enter that rest, and those who formerly had the gospel preached to them did not go in, because of their disobedience." - (Heb 4:6)

Some of Israel went into Canaan -- some did not.
Some are saved... some are not.... still to this very day.


SOME Jews, who formerly had the gospel preached to them "For the Gospel has been preached to US JUST as it was to THEM also" -- did not accept it. Others did accept as Hebrews 11 points out.

Sabbath was "made for all mankind" Mark 2:27 so then "there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God" Hebrews 4

for all eternity after the cross "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23 - so then "there REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God" Heb 4

"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of GOD" 1 Cor 7:19 - so then "there REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God" Heb 4

"the saints KEEP the commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12
so then "there REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God" Heb 4

"love Me and KEEP My Commandments" Exodus 20:6 "if you Love Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15 so then "there REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God" Heb 4[/QUOTE]

No, its not talking about the seventh day sabbath

The 7th day Sabbath remains - just as it was in Psalms 95.

 

[BobRyan]

Sabbath existed in Psalms 95 but not all were saved then just as not all are saved now.

So then

"It still remains that some will enter that rest, and those who formerly had the gospel preached to them did not go in, because of their disobedience." - (Heb 4:6)

Some of Israel went into Canaan -- some did not.
Some are saved... some are not.... still to this very day.


SOME Jews, who formerly had the gospel preached to them "For the Gospel has been preached to US JUST as it was to THEM also" -- did not accept it. Others did accept as Hebrews 11 points out.

Sabbath was "made for all mankind" Mark 2:27 so then "there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God" Hebrews 4

for all eternity after the cross "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23 - so then "there REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God" Heb 4

"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of GOD" 1 Cor 7:19 - so then "there REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God" Heb 4

"the saints KEEP the commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12
so then "there REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God" Heb 4

"love Me and KEEP My Commandments" Exodus 20:6 "if you Love Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15 so then "there REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God" Heb 4[/QUOTE]

The Sabbath-rest that remains for the people of God is the promise of rest in the salvation of Christ, the same rest that was promised to Abraham. It is this promise of rest to Abraham that now remains for all who have the same faith as Abraham:

True of the Gospel - but none of the Ten Commandments are called "the Gospel".

They are the LAW of God - written on the heart under the New Covenant -- see Jeremiah 31:31-33

 

[Doveaman]

True of the Gospel - but none of the Ten Commandments are called "the Gospel".

They are the LAW of God - written on the heart under the New Covenant -- see Jeremiah 31:31-33

That's because you have no idea what the "Gospel" is.

The Gospel is the Good News about Christ.

The Gospel reveals who Christ is and leads us to Christ.

The Old Covenant Law, including the Ten Commandments, was the Gospel given to the Jews to lead them to Christ:

"Before faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law. You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus." - (Gal 3:23-26)

The law was put in charge to lead the Jews to Christ.

The law was the Gospel, or Good News, that led to Christ under the Old Covenant.

Now that Christ has come, the supervision of the law with its commandments and regulations are no longer necessary:

"For He Himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in His flesh the law with its commandments and regulations." - (Eph 2:14-15)

 

[BobRyan]

That's because you have no idea what the "Gospel" is.

Pontification and creative writing - not a "proof" for any doctrine at all - for the rest of us.

 

[BobRyan]

Sabbath existed in Psalms 95 but not all were saved then just as not all are saved now.

So then

"It still remains that some will enter that rest, and those who formerly had the gospel preached to them did not go in, because of their disobedience." - (Heb 4:6)

Some of Israel went into Canaan -- some did not.
Some are saved... some are not.... still to this very day.


SOME Jews, who formerly had the gospel preached to them "For the Gospel has been preached to US JUST as it was to THEM also" -- did not accept it. Others did accept as Hebrews 11 points out.

Sabbath was "made for all mankind" Mark 2:27 so then "there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God" Hebrews 4

for all eternity after the cross "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23 - so then "there REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God" Heb 4

"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of GOD" 1 Cor 7:19 - so then "there REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God" Heb 4

"the saints KEEP the commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12
so then "there REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God" Heb 4

"love Me and KEEP My Commandments" Exodus 20:6 "if you Love Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15 so then "there REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God" Heb 4[/QUOTE]

The Sabbath-rest that remains for the people of God is the promise of rest in the salvation of Christ, the same rest that was promised to Abraham. It is this promise of rest to Abraham that now remains for all who have the same faith as Abraham:

True of the Gospel - but none of the Ten Commandments are called "the Gospel".

They are the LAW of God - written on the heart under the New Covenant -- see Jeremiah 31:31-33

The Gospel is the Good News about Christ.
The Gospel reveals who Christ is and leads us to Christ.

True - and a great example of facts that do not "delete the Bible" or the "Word of God" or even "one single command of God".

The point remains.

The Old Covenant Law, including the Ten Commandments, was the Gospel given to the Jews to lead them to Christ:

Your "two gospel" teaching is condemned in Gal 1:6-9 where Paul reminds us that there is no such thing as "two gospels".

reconsider.

Before faith came - we were lost -- condemned by the same moral law of God that defines sin and that is written on the heart under the New Covenant.

before faith - we were lost.

23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
"" - (Gal 3:23-26)

The law was put in charge condemning the lost - and the purpose was to lead the lost to Christ.

The law was not the Gospel - it was flat out condemnation of the sinner. The Law defines what sin is - and shows that the lost have sinned Romans 3:19-23 it does not "save" -- it points to the need that the person has.

such is the case of the Old Covenant that still to this very day - condemns all the lost-- until faith comes.. until they accept the Gospel

Now that Christ has come, the supervision of the law with its commandments and regulations are no longer necessary:

You just quoted "you" just then... you knew that right??

The text does not say "now that Christ has come" and we both know it.

Bible details matter.

 

[bcbsr]

Many Christians, particularly those in Evangelical circles would say that Sunday is like the "Christian Sabbath" in which people must come to church and refrain from work. This was seen at Puritan colonies in New England. This eventually evolved to Sunday Laws in the US. The laws forbid working or selling things. To break one of the Sunday Laws would get you stripped of your food allowance for the week on the first offense. On the third offense, the Sunday Laws breaker could be executed. The idea among Christians that the Lord's Day, Sunday, is the Sabbath still has influences on Western society today. There is no school on Sundays, except for Sunday schools. Many stores and restaurants still close early or don't open at all on Sundays. Chick fil A is a good example of a restaurant that closed on Sunday.

What many are unaware of us that the Sabbath is not the Lord's Day nor vice versa. The Sabbath was the last day of the week dedicated to rest from work that God has done with the Earth. And God then transferred that duty to His people as stated in Exodus 20:11. It is true that Jesus rose from the grave on the first day of the week (Mark 16:9, John 20:1, and Matthew 28:1-7). But we know that God never changes (Malachi 3:6, Hebrews 13:8, and James 1:17). The purpose of the Lord's Day is different from that of the Sabbath. The Lord's Day represents a renewal of creation through His resurrection, just as Sunday is the first day of the new week. The Sabbath also holds significance for Jesus. The Sabbath does not commemorate the resurrection, but rather the day that Jesus's body laid in the tomb between His death and resurruction. This is why some the Orthodox Churches and some Oriental Orthodox Churches acknowledge the Sabbath on Saturday and the Lord's Day in Sunday.

Yep, Sabbath is the 7th day, namely Saturday. And those who insist on keeping Sabbath law should realize that it says, "Six days you shall do your work, and on the seventh day you shall rest" Ex 23:12 So if they are not working on Sunday they're breaking the Sabbath law.

Catholicism went so far as to make it canon law to disobey the Sabbath law:

Canon XXIX. CHRISTIANS must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lord’s Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ.

So much for "Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day." Col 2:16 Or "One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God." Rom 14:5,6