The line of Cain survived the Flood

[John Christian V]

Cain, Qayin

Genesis 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain [Qayin], and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.

Genesis 15:18-21
18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:
19 The Kenites [Qayini], and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites,
20 And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims,
21 And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girga[wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]es, and the Jebusites.

Numbers 24:22 Nevertheless the Kenite [Qayin] shall be wasted, until Asshur shall carry thee away captive.

Judges 1:16 And the children of the Kenite [Qayini], Moses' father in law, went up out of the city of palm trees with the children of Judah into the wilderness of Judah, which lieth in the south of Arad; and they went and dwelt among the people.

Judges 4:11 Now Heber the Kenite [Qayini], which was of the children of Hobab the father in law of Moses, had severed himself from the Kenites [Qayin], and pitched his tent unto the plain of Zaanaim, which is by Kedesh.

Judges 4:17 Howbeit Sisera fled away on his feet to the tent of Jael the wife of Heber the Kenite [Qayini]: for there was peace between Jabin the king of Hazor and the house of Heber the Kenite [Qayini].

Judges 5:24 Blessed above women shall Jael the wife of Heber the Kenite [Qayini] be, blessed shall she be above women in the tent.

1 Samuel 15:6 And Saul said unto the Kenites [Qayini], Go, depart, get you down from among the Amalekites, lest I destroy you with them: for ye shewed kindness to all the children of Israel, when they came up out of Egypt. So the Kenites [Qayini] departed from among the Amalekites.

1 Samuel 27:10 And Achish said, Whither have ye made a road to day? And David said, Against the south of Judah, and against the south of the Jerahmeelites, and against the south of the Kenites [Qayini].

1 Samuel 30:29 And to them which were in Rachal, and to them which were in the cities of the Jerahmeelites, and to them which were in the cities of the Kenites [Qayini],

1 Chronicles 2:55 And the families of the scribes which dwelt at Jabez; the Tirathites, the Shimeathites, and Suchathites. These are the Kenites [Qayini] that came of Hemath, the father of the house of Rechab.

Could it be that the children of Cain associated themselves with the Israelites in order to draw them away from Yahweh?

I know many still believe that the Flood was global, but I do not. The Hebrew words translated as "earth" in Genesis chapters 6-10 are 'eretz and 'adamah. Usually 'eretz is used. 'adamah is only used six times. Both words can be translated as "land". In fact, that's how they are translated predominantly throughout the Old Testament. 'adamah is rendered "land" 122 times, "earth" 52 times, "ground" 43 times, etc.. 'eretz is rendered "land" 1508 times, "earth" 712 times, "ground" 98 times, etc.. And we all know, or should know, that the original meaning of "earth" in English is "soil" or "ground", not the entire world.

Note that there are some interesting phrases which occur in the Old Testament, "son of Belial, sons of Belial, children of Belial". Are these offspring of Belial the result of Israelites intermarrying with Canaanites, or even the descendants of Cain/Qayin?

 

[Swordsmanoffaith]

Gen 7:23Every living thing on the face of the earth was wiped out; men and animals and the creatures that move along the ground and the birds of the air were wiped from the earth. Only Noah was left, and those with him in the ark.

There was someone else named Cain. Maybe that refers to his descendants.

Jos 15:57 Cain, Gibeah, and Timnah; ten cities with their villages:

 

[John Christian V]

Gen 7:23Every living thing on the face of the earth was wiped out; men and animals and the creatures that move along the ground and the birds of the air were wiped from the earth. Only Noah was left, and those with him in the ark.

There was someone else named Cain. Maybe that refers to his descendants.

Jos 15:57 Cain, Gibeah, and Timnah; ten cities with their villages:

Earth is easily translated as land in that verse. In fact, the KJV translates 'adamah as "ground" in that verse.

Genesis 7:23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground ['adamah], both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth ['eretz]: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.

'eretz can also easily be translated as "land" or "ground" in that verse.

And Cain [Qayin] in Joshua 15:57 is a city, not a person.

Since the Bible doesn't tell us that the Qayini have any other origin than Qayin or Cain, it is most logical to assume that they are descended from the first born son of Eve.

 

[Swordsmanoffaith]

Or, maybe the Kenites were descendants of Kenan, Seth's grandson:

1 Chronicles 1


1Adam, Sheth, Enosh,
2Kenan, Mahalaleel, Jered,
3Henoch, Methuselah, Lamech,
4Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
5The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras.
6And the sons of Gomer; Ashchenaz, and Riphath, and Togarmah.
7And the sons of Javan; Elishah, and Tarshish, Kittim, and Dodanim. 8The sons of Ham; Cush, and Mizraim, Put, and Canaan.

 

[John Christian V]

Or, maybe the Kenites were descendants of Kenan, Seth's grandson:

1 Chronicles 1


1Adam, Sheth, Enosh,
2Kenan, Mahalaleel, Jered,
3Henoch, Methuselah, Lamech,
4Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
5The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras.
6And the sons of Gomer; Ashchenaz, and Riphath, and Togarmah.
7And the sons of Javan; Elishah, and Tarshish, Kittim, and Dodanim. 8The sons of Ham; Cush, and Mizraim, Put, and Canaan.

I doubt it. They would be called Qayinani/Qenani or Kenanites, not Kenites.

 

[Swordsmanoffaith]

God cannot lie, JohnChristian. There is an error in understanding. I will choose to believe God. If you can provide evidence that "every living thing on the face of the earth was (not) wiped out", in Scripture, then you have a case.

Gen 7:23Every living thing on the face of the earth was wiped out; men and animals and the creatures that move along the ground and the birds of the air were wiped from the earth. Only Noah was left, and those with him in the ark.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Then we have the scriptures for self correction and we are told not to give heed to endless genealogies, what do we do with that?

Unless ofcourse the first man Adam (a figure of Christ to come) so likewise Cain (firstborn) types a man of the flesh verses Abel (secondborn) as the spiritual comes not first but the natural (in both pictures) the same is seen in Ishmael and Isaac but Paul speaks of them after spiritual truths (sorta like the carnal man, always shown first) and the spiritual man (shown second) in accord with that patern of thought. Same as with Paul with the Isrealites and going to the Gentiles, did God cast off his people (his kinsmen according to the flesh, whereby Christ is come)? No, he himself is an isrealite of the tribe of Benjimen etc, the children of the promise (the Spirit) pertains to the faith, but shown throughout as pictures of firstborns and secondborns, but following genealogies is following natural decents after the flesh (in our wisdom) but not after the wisdon of God as Im seeing it. Im only saying because we go down alot of endless rabbit trails before eventually seeing the futility in going there know what I mean?

Ive been down more then a few myself, you ventually toss your hands up and are left with nothing to show for your workmanship most often.

 

[John Christian V]

Then we have the scriptures for self correction and we are told not to give heed to endless genealogies, what do we do with that?

Unless ofcourse the first man Adam (a figure of Christ to come) so likewise Cain (firstborn) types a man of the flesh verses Abel (secondborn) as the spiritual comes not first but the natural (in both pictures) the same is seen in Ishmael and Isaac but Paul speaks of them after spiritual truths (sorta like the carnal man, always shown first) and the spiritual man (shown second) in accord with that patern of thought. Same as with Paul with the Isrealites and going to the Gentiles, did God cast off his people (his kinsmen according to the flesh, whereby Christ is come)? No, he himself is an isrealite of the tribe of Benjimen etc, the children of the promise (the Spirit) pertains to the faith, but shown throughout as pictures of firstborns and secondborns, but following genealogies is following natural decents after the flesh (in our wisdom) but not after the wisdon of God as Im seeing it. Im only saying because we go down alot of endless rabbit trails before eventually seeing the futility in going there know what I mean?

Ive been down more then a few myself, you ventually toss your hands up and are left with nothing to show for your workmanship most often.

I understand what you're saying, but I think this is something God wants us to know. By calling Cain the firstborn, I wasn't ascribing any kind of goodness to him or his descendants.

 

[Fireinfolding]

I understand what you're saying, but I think this is something God wants us to know. By calling Cain the firstborn, I wasn't ascribing any kind of goodness to him or his descendants.

I didnt get that picture either, you werent given that impression, I dont even think scripture gives us that impression either

 

[John Christian V]

I didnt get that picture either, you werent given that impression, I dont even think scripture gives us that impression either

No, not at all. Some people even believe that Cain was the son of Eve and Samael (Satan, the Serpent), rather than Adam and Eve. I won't go into detail about it here, but I have studied the subject in-depth and believe it to be a possibility.

 

[Fireinfolding]

No, not at all. Some people even believe that Cain was the son of Eve and Samael (Satan, the Serpent), rather than Adam and Eve. I won't go into detail about it here, but I have studied the subject in-depth and believe it to be a possibility.

Yes I heard that too, Ye are of your father the devil type thing, though I sorta see that as the enemy come in and sown tares among the wheat dont you? More like similitude of lies (he speaketh a lie) its believed upon in the heart and conceived after a spiritual truth, the outworking of it shown in the similitude of the offspring... like, In this "the children of God and the children of the devil manifest" born of the truth (above) and walking in the truth or not abiding in the truth (as the devil does not). He speaketh a lie, and the believing in a lie and having pleasure in unrighteouness sorta thing, I cant word it like I would like to.

Sorta, like seeing a patern of seed given of God (the word/seed of the truth) and of Satan (word/seed of lies)... in that respect I suppose

 

[Swordsmanoffaith]

To follow that line of thought, that Cain was son of Eve and Satan and that Cain's line survived the flood, you have to deny Scripture, God's own Word on the matter, and take up belief in false teachings. Stick to Scripture and you can't go wrong.

Gen 4:1And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.

Gen 7:23Every living thing on the face of the earth was wiped out; men and animals and the creatures that move along the ground and the birds of the air were wiped from the earth. Only Noah was left, and those with him in the ark.

 

[Fireinfolding]

To follow that line of thought, that Cain was son of Eve and Satan and that Cain's line survived the flood, you have to deny Scripture, God's own Word on the matter, and take up belief in false teachings. Stick to Scripture and you can't go wrong.

Gen 4:1And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.

Gen 7:23Every living thing on the face of the earth was wiped out; men and animals and the creatures that move along the ground and the birds of the air were wiped from the earth. Only Noah was left, and those with him in the ark.

I dont believe he was after the proposed thought "after the flesh' was my point although after a spiritual truth not a carnal one was I reasoning with it. I personally see the entire cross of Christ in a patern sitting there between Cain and Abel and the "setting" the apostles in the church up to Seth in a patern there, so I dont really focus too much on the flesh of it, I dont deny it foundationally I just get more out of it weaving back and forth and enjoy finding paterns beforehand speaking forward in various places.

For instance God numbers mans days before the flood, can you find whose years they apply to? Its pretty kool actually

Do your stuff workman for our God

 

[lilmissmontana]

John Christian V ... hello

Fireinfolding ... hi

I see you, Fire, went to the verse I was going to. We see it differently, though ... and that's cool, eh?

Here's my view on that verse.

John 8:44

Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar and the father of it.

he was a murderer from the beginning ... that was Cain ... he was the first murderer and he was the original liar ... Genesis 4:9 ... even Adam and Eve didn't lie to God ... when he asked them what they happened, they told him the truth

John C V ... I'm convinced there is every possibility the Kenites are the descendants of Cain. And I do think it's a possibility that's exactly what the Kenites do ... especially in view of the parable of the wheat and tares

I'm sure may of you know this, but I'm just throwing it out there ... Cain isn't found in Adam's geneology. I'm aware some discount that ... I'm not among them.

And as for Cain not being of Adam but of Satan (serpent) I think it's quite possible ... and it's easy to explain.

Genesis 4:2

And she again bare his brother, Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of ground.

My understanding is Cain and Abel were twins ...

again ... Hebrew, Strongs 3254 ... to continue to do a thing ... add, x again, x any more, etc.

Genesis 3:13

And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.

beguiled ... Strong's 5377 ... to lead astray ... seduce ... greatly, x utterly

eat ... Strong's 398 ... to eat, literally or figuratively x at all, burn up, consume, devour (-er, up), dine, eat (-er, up), feed (with), food x freely, x in ... wise (-deed, plenty), (lay) meat (quite)


After she 'partook' with the serpent she 'partook' with Adam ... I say it's entirely possible.

There's more, but I'm sure it's all been done ... just my take on a few things

it would sure seem his descendants did ... and it's my feeling, as well, that this is something God wants us to know.

jmview ... thanks for listening
lilmiss

 

[John Christian V]

I realize how outrageous the idea that Satan was the father of Cain may be to some people, so I will explain further.

Genesis 3:14-15
14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Genesis 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Genesis 2:16-17
16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Now, Yahweh has no evil in Him, and would not desire to give His children the knowledge of evil, so the tree of the knowledge of good and evil must therefore be evil in and of itself. I assert that that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is in fact a symbol for Satan, just as the tree of life is a symbol for Christ.

Trees are often used as symbols for individuals and nations throughout Scripture.

Luke 3:9 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Luke 6:43-44
43 For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
44 For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.

Genesis 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Eating can be a metaphor for sexual intercourse as seen in the Song of Solomon.

Song of Solomon 2:3 As the apple tree among the trees of the wood, so is my beloved among the sons. I sat down under his shadow with great delight, and his fruit was sweet to my taste.

As Satan is a very powerful celestial being, it is reasonable to assume he could shape-change into a female when Eve brought Adam to him. If you don't believe that fallen angels can procreate with human women, read Genesis 6, then read my post here #3

Some, however, point to the following verse, and claim it disproves the idea.

Genesis 4:1-2
1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.
2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.

But it is Eve who says she had "gotten a man from the LORD". One cannot say she was the wisest and most knowledgeable of creatures. Notice that we are only told Adam knew Eve one time. Both Cain and Abel were born. Twins.

Also, take a look at two passages from the Old Testament which describe the same event (the same event of David taking a census of Israel, I mean).

2 Samuel 24:1 And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.

1 Chronicles 21:1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

These verses seem contradictory at first, but they actually illustrate how Yahweh was given credit for all things supernatural. For Satan can do nothing without His permission.

Genesis 3:13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.

2 Corinithians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

 

[Fireinfolding]

The flesh isnt counted for seed it says so Cain wouldnt be after a spiritual truth

 

[John Christian V]

Thanks for the support, lilmiss. I knew I would be forced to explain further

 

[John Christian V]

1 John 3:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

Could be literal or figurative or both.

 

[lilmissmontana]

Interesting verse:

Genesis 7:15

And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.

flesh ... Strong's 1321 ... corresponds to 1320 ... flesh, by extension body, person: also by euphanism.) the puedenda of a man: body, {fat, lean} flesh {-ied], kin, [man-] kind, + nakedness, self, skin

it would seem there was two of every kind of persons ... black, white, other, good, bad ... etc ...

 

[Fireinfolding]

1 John 3:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

Could be literal or figurative or both.

Sure, its just we reap more benefits though comparing spiritual things with spiritual then we might just looking at the flesh of things dont you think?

(Oh by the way Hi lil)

I gotta bad back acting up and Im sorta hunting and pecking laying down in a very awkward position here so forgive me for not going at length on anything momentarily. Ill sit back on this one and just read yas