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Why does God give eternal life to those who believe in His Son? Because they become His children, and children of God are heirs of God - Rom 8:16,17a - 16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,
17 and if children, heirs also, heirs of God
But there is another kind of inheritance; that which is a reward, which is earned, as these verses very clearly indicate:
Rom 8:17b - and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.
2 Tim 2:12a - If we endure, we will also reign with Him;
Rev 22:12 - “Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done.
And you don't have an answer to any of these verses.
Absolutely...and if you can't earn it by works, then you sure can't maintain by works either. And no where in the Bible does it give an example or state clearly that a person lost their salvation. But there are hundreds of examples of people being saved simply by their faith.
I've proven from Scripture what He meant. I'm never embarrassed by what Scripture says and that I believe what Scripture says.You must be red in the face trying so hard to disprove Jesus' words that eternal life is inherited.
I don't understand your question. Please re-phrase.According to Jesus, how does one come forth to the resurrection of life?
I don't understand your question. Please re-phrase.
I do know how one receives eternal life. It is received by believing in Him. Jn 1:12, Gal 3:26 and 1 Tim 1:16.
A car cannot be compared to what is eternal...for a car is seen and temporary in nature. However things that are not seen are eternal...Having said that if I am given who is eternal and sealed in him with the spirit of promise until the day of redemption..it doesn't seem likely im going to destroy my eternal life. However being called righteous and not living up to the standard can allow me to make a ship wreck of my faith and be worthless while im here on earth. And as all judged for my actions whether they be consequences of my behavior or punishment.Yes, a person can receive a car as a free gift, but if they neglect the responsibilities in owning a car they could forfeit that gift by running red lights, drinking while driving, ignoring their notice to renew their registration on their car, and ignoring general maintenance of that car, etc. However, if a person had to work hard with the hope that they will receive a car one day, then they are striving to earn or work for a car instead of somebody giving it to them as a free gift. One is a gift with the responsibilites thereof, and the other is a working or striving to earn something one day.
....
I would like to take a look at eternal life...as not only a future event but a present one....First, Jesus had yet to die when he was speaking...so were they not still under the law. I believe so.....If we continue to read the following verses. You can answer the question of why his own disciples ask ...Gee well if this is the case, who will enter. At this point Jesus replies with man its impossible...but with God all things are.....now after his resurrection we understand its by faith....that not only are we inputed righteousness..and take on this name...but we now hit the mark in Christ. This mark is eternal life..We have life through Christ by faith. So why then did the disciples asked then who will be saved?....Answer Jesus was teaching you can't reach salvation by your works to earn it or by yourself...you would reach it through him.John 5
28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice
29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
Eternal life is received by inheritance.
I also want you to read this -
Luke 10
25 And behold, a certain lawyer stood up and tested Him, saying, “Teacher, what shall I DO to inherit eternal life?”
26 He said to him, “What is written in the law? What is your reading of it?”
27 So he answered and said, “ ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,’ and ‘your neighbor as yourself.’”
28 And He said to him, “You have answered rightly; DO this and you will live.”
The lawyer asked what shall he DO to inherit eternal life; he didn't ask what shall he believe.
Jesus said, DO this and you will live; He didn't say believe and you will live.
You can fight Jesus' words all you want; it will do you no good.
Eternal life is a person and not a super power or a wish granted to us by a magical genie. For he that has the Son has life and he that does not have the Son does not have life (1 John 5:12). So life is associated with abiding with a person; And we know that relationships with people can be broken off.A car cannot be compared to what is eternal...for a car is seen and temporary in nature. However things that are not seen are eternal...Having said that if I am given who is eternal and sealed in him with the spirit of promise until the day of redemption..it doesn't seem likely im going to destroy my eternal life. However being called righteous and not living up to the standard can allow me to make a ship wreck of my faith and be worthless while im here on earth. And as all judged for my actions whether they be consequences of my behavior or punishment.
Point is they asked the question while Jesus was alive.....you had to keep the law.....but after his resurrection...we find the only way one could keep the spirit of the law was by faith....for if you sin you have an advocate with the father. Why the spirit and not the letter? For the things seen are temporary..and the things unseen eternal...if you learn to love then one has fullfilled all the law and the prophets.John 5
28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice
29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
Eternal life is received by inheritance.
I also want you to read this -
Luke 10
25 And behold, a certain lawyer stood up and tested Him, saying, “Teacher, what shall I DO to inherit eternal life?”
26 He said to him, “What is written in the law? What is your reading of it?”
27 So he answered and said, “ ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,’ and ‘your neighbor as yourself.’”
28 And He said to him, “You have answered rightly; DO this and you will live.”
The lawyer asked what shall he DO to inherit eternal life; he didn't ask what shall he believe.
Jesus said, DO this and you will live; He didn't say believe and you will live.
You can fight Jesus' words all you want; it will do you no good.
This passage is in reference to all humans, and facing their eternal destination. While you seem to think that their destination is based on what they have earned, it's based on whether one received eternal life. Rev 20:15 proves this: And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.John 5
28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice
29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
In the sense of being a child of God, per Rom 8:17a - and if children, heirs also, heirs of GodEternal life is received by inheritance.
I'm certainly not fighting Jesus' words. I've explained them in the context of the whole council of God.I also want you to read this -
Luke 10
25 And behold, a certain lawyer stood up and tested Him, saying, “Teacher, what shall I DO to inherit eternal life?”
26 He said to him, “What is written in the law? What is your reading of it?”
27 So he answered and said, “ ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,’ and ‘your neighbor as yourself.’”
28 And He said to him, “You have answered rightly; DO this and you will live.”
The lawyer asked what shall he DO to inherit eternal life; he didn't ask what shall he believe.
Jesus said, DO this and you will live; He didn't say believe and you will live.
You can fight Jesus' words all you want; it will do you no good.
Agree....but we do find cases where people have lost thw joy of their salvation...Absolutely...and if you can't earn it by works, then you sure can't maintain by works either. And no where in the Bible does it give an example or state clearly that a person lost their salvation. But there are hundreds of examples of people being saved simply by their faith.
And only those who do the will of Father God (Matt 7:21).And, Jesus said those who keep His commandments will inherit eternal life.
Point is they asked the question while Jesus was alive.....you had to keep the law.....but after his resurrection...we find the only way one could keep the spirit of the law was by faith....for if you sin you have an advocate with the father. Why the spirit and not the letter? For the things seen are temporary..and the things unseen eternal...if you learn to love then one has fullfilled all the law and the prophets.
I said this:
"I don't understand your question. Please re-phrase.
I do know how one receives eternal life. It is received by believing in Him. Jn 1:12, Gal 3:26 and 1 Tim 1:16."
This passage is in reference to all humans, and facing their eternal destination. While you seem to think that their destination is based on what they have earned, it's based on whether one received eternal life. Rev 20:15 proves this: And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Here are a number of verses that tell us the basis upon which one receives eternal life:
John 3:15-16 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
John 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."
John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
John 6:40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."
John 6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord
1 Tim 1:16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.
Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.
I'm certainly not fighting Jesus' words. I've explained them in the context of the whole council of God.
By being a child of God, we HAVE His life, which is eternal life. That's the inheritance that Jesus was speaking about. No mystery.
And to become a child of God is by believing in Christ for it.
Jn 1:12 - But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name
Gal 3:26 - For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
1 Tim 1:16 - Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.
Why are you fighting against all these verses?
That is simply preposterous. Here is what Jesus said about eternal life:Jesus said it is by DOING. You say it is by believing only. Therein lies the discrepancy. You are in disagreement with Jesus.
Your response has no relevance to what I posted. I didn't mention John 5. And I didn't add anything. It seems you haven't bothered reading what I have posted.That's not what the passage in John 5 says. You keep adding your own words. It seems you want eternal life on your conditions. That's not how it works.
That means non productive. It has nothing to do with not being saved. No one must produce works in order to be saved.I totally agree it is by believing. However, believing without works is dead.
Your view fails to understand what James wrote.It takes works to enliven faith. Therefore, despite all your surmising, you are trying to obtain eternal life with a dead faith. I guarantee you must do it according to the Savior's words, or else you will fail miserably.
What words are you referring to?YOu say 'whole' when you intentionally leave out Jesus' words in John 5?
Not the words I've provided in this post.I'm not fighting, I am agreeing with Jesus' words.
Your judgment fails on all levels.It absolutely takes faith for eternal life. However, it must be a living faith, and not a dead faith. You are trying to obtain life with something that is dead.
Just to ask, not because I disagree, but because no one else has ever thought to bring this up. Could you please cite the people you are referring to here.Agree....but we do find cases where people have lost thw joy of their salvation...
No one has been arguing against that. But you still continue to beat that dead horse. The consequences for anyone who has believed in Christ and is a child of God falls under Heb 12:5-11
5 and you have forgotten the exhortation which is addressed to you as sons, “My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, Nor faint when you are reproved by Him;
6 For those whom the Lord loves He disciplines, And He scourges every son whom He receives.”
7 It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline?
8 But if you are without discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.
9 Furthermore, we had earthly fathers to discipline us, and we respected them; shall we not much rather be subject to the Father of spirits, and live?
10 For they disciplined us for a short time as seemed best to them, but He disciplines us for our good, so that we may share His holiness.
11 All discipline for the moment seems not to be joyful, but sorrowful; yet to those who have been trained by it, afterwards it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness.
Jason0047 said:This means that a person can continue to murder, rape, hate, fornicate, do drugs, and still be saved as long as they believe in Jesus, right? No?FreeGrace2 said:Yep. Why? Because Christ died for ALL sins. Why do you think Christ died for sins, if sins will keep one out of heaven? How does that make any sense? It doesn't. Just because you're offended by the grace of God doesn't mean His grace is cancelled by your offendedness.
Jason0047 said:You seem to think God will just turn a blind eye to a believer's one or two sins as long as they generally live a holy life.
FreeGrace2 said:No one has been arguing that.
It's a lousy analogy because the Bible NEVER teaches anywhere that one's salvation will be taken away for sin.
Once again, jason has misunderstood what Jesus was saying.Jesus said, we will know false prophets by their fruit. The fruits of righteousness in a believer's life has to first have a right foundational belief so as to yield good fruit. Hence, why they are either a true believer or a false believer. If one is teaching contrary to the words of Jesus Himself who said that our entire body can be cast into hell fire if we look upon a woman in lust, then one would not be disciplined by God and one would not be bearing forth true fruits of righteousness (According to God's Word).
Well, we get another glimpse of jason's theology. He doesn't believe that "all sin is paid for; past, present, and future". In black and white. This is just totally contrary to Scripture. It is clear that he fails to comprehend what "once for all" means in reference to Christ's sacrifice in Hebrews. It means He died for all sins. Not just some sins.Just so that other people are aware, while Eternal Security Proponents believe that the believer is disciplined by God in this life (i.e. God does not turn a blind eye to their sin), the real issue or problem is that the Eternal Security Proponent does ignore the consequences of a believer's sin in the after-life because they believe all sin is paid for: Past, Present, and Future.
And again, he totally fails to understand the view of eternal security. There are very serious consequences to sin, but he just won't admit that is our view. Which seems dishonest to me. Why does he not believe what he's been told over and over? I guess he just loves to beat dead horses.This is essentially saying there is no real consequence to sin that truly matters.
Stupid question. Go find a believer who is being disciplined and ask him.Discipline? What does it matter to the believer who just wants to sin?
jason himself has admitted that he hasn't yet achieved sinless perfection, and he has said that he is saved. That is a contradiction to his own views. He rejects "sin and still be saved", yet he still sins and he claims to be saved. His views are internally contradicted.For do folks honestly believe that teaching a sin and still be saved doctrine does not lead others into sin thinking they can sin on occasion without worrying about the consequences of their sin in the after-life? Of course not.
jason has been corrected on this point over and over, but he is either too thick to comprehend or he prefers to keep on lying about the views of others.Sin is minimized in the Eternal Security belief.
Perfect justice only occurs in God's system. He is perfectly just. And He judged His own Son for the sins of mankind. But jason doesn't seem to understand this very basic doctrine.True justice does not exist in this belief.
It was, on the cross. But jason does not understand that.Evil does not truly have to be punished properly.
jason has admitted that he hasn't achieved sinless perfection yet, which means he still sins. Apparently he's more interested in getting everyone else to quit sinning before he does himself.Men can get away with evil ultimately all while they think they are serving Jesus. Discipline? What good does it do if one is not reformed by such discipline. For does not a parent's discipline of their child lead them to correct behavior? Of course it does. But not in the Eternal Security belief.
This is true, but jason doesn't understand how it does. When we sin, we grieve (Eph 4:30) or quench (1 Thess 5:19) the Holy Spirit. Sin breaks fellowship with God, just as the prodigal son was physically separated from his father in rebellion. Only when the son confessed his sin and repented of them by returning to his father was fellowship restored.The Bible teaches that sin can separate a believer from God.
And he doesn't understand the meaning of "abiding" in that verse.1 John 3:15 says no murderer has eternal life abiding in them.
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