The Left is Rallying to Take Your Guns Again

[Sparagmos]

Can you tell me of on instance in history, where an armed people were overtaken by their own Tyrannical government?

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom of Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any bands of regular troops that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States" (Noah Webster in `An Examination into the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution', 1787, a pamphlet aimed at swaying Pennsylvania toward ratification, in Paul Ford, ed., Pamphlets on the Constitution of the United States, at 56(New York, 1888))

I suppose that if a dictator stepped forward today in the U.S. ;that the military would be split. I suspect that the majority of the armed people would stand with the military that was in opposition to the overthrow of our Republic.

What do you mean "overtaken by their own government?"

People with guns get arrested and imprisoned by the government all the time; our prisons are full of them. Groups of people with guns don’t stand a chance either.

Quoting people from 200 years ago is meaningless. Why do you assume people think Noah Webster was somehow smarter and wiser than we are now? If you dropped him in 2022 he’d be completely lost. It’s a completely different world and whatever he thought in 1787 about guns is irrelevant.

 

[HARK!]

However, AR-15's have been involved in some incidents involving spectacular carnage and mass shootings. They can have large capacity magazines and the wounds that the AR-15 makes are particularly dangerous since the bullet easily fragments at close range (unlike a handgun). The pistol grip also makes them easily wielded and sighted, particularly if they are paired up with the right kinds of optics. It's completely different from some kid owning a .22 rifle.

There is so much fail in this post that I won't even address it point by point. Carbines are designed to wound. Defensive sidearms are designed for stopping power.

 

[HARK!]

I’m Pro Life cradle to grave. Oddly some people claim to be Pro Life are less concerned about murdered children than “gun rights”.

Gun rights protect the innocent from criminals.

How do you protect yourself from armed criminals, your cell phone?

 

[FireDragon76]

Gun rights protect the innocent from criminals.

A civilized society where people don't routinely own military-grade weapons protects everyone.

 

[NxNW]

Is it worth the dead children?

Republicans are saying a million dead Americans are a price worth paying for not wearing a mask.

Children murdered in their schools are a price worth paying for retaining their childish fantasy of defeating of fictitious tyrants.

Women dying from ectopic pregnancies are a price worth paying for the appearance of protecting the unborn who can never survive such a pregnancy.

Their claims of being pro-life are truly curious.

 

[Brihaha]

The trend I'm seeing is that the right seems to care about "life" only so far as it allows them to impose restrictions on others, not when it entails any restrictions on themselves.

Preventing others from engaging in abortion or assisted suicide? Absolutely.

Restricting access to firearms to prevent needless deaths?
Wearing masks, requiring vaccines, or restricting indoor gatherings to curb the spread of a pandemic?
Cutting air pollution to reduce the number of needless respiratory deaths?

mah rights!

I think it's more than a trend. It's an unspoken creed. Sacrifices for thee but not for me! I actually believe in other conservative principles. I think I should be able to own firearms. I think our government should practice fiscal responsibility every chance they get. It seems sad how extremists have taken control and leaders follow them so they won't lose elections. I wish they would actually lead constituents with honesty and truth. Dems really aren't much better either. We truly don't have many good choices when voting anymore. Honest, respectable people understandably eschew politics.

That whole trump debacle tore the fabric of our American society and left many angry and hopeless. He inspired anger on all sides of the political spectrum. It's why so many people voted. Anger and hate are great motivators. And they are both easier to inspire than compassion, hope and love. Those emotions demand work for politicians. Few are willing to sacrifice the work to inspire us to be our best selves. America is now paying the price for our apathy and spoiled laziness. Sad for my grandkids.

 

[cow451]

Gun rights protect the innocent from criminals.
How do you protect yourself from armed criminals, your cell phone?

Oddly enough I have worked in many high crime areas and never been the victim of a crime. The most dangerous situation I was in was getting mistaken for a local resident in a high crime area. I had run a red light and was quickly hemmed in by four patrol cars. The first officer seemed very anxious, which troubled me greatly.

Now I live in a “nice” neighborhood and have had two car break-ins.

Maybe I just look like some burned out PTSD vet or I’ve been just lucky. Oh, I don’t carry a firearm. I don’t care if others do as long as they are responsible.

The only people I fear are two gun-loving hotheads I know. One is a full-blown MAGA and the other also voted for the defeated former President but has good enough math skills to know who won the election. This guy makes sure everyone knows he is a devout evangelical. This guy and I had a disagreement once where I had to remind him that I could have the local men in blue give him a ride home.

That was probably TMI. Good night and have a pleasant tomorrow.

 

[NxNW]

Gun rights protect the innocent from criminals.

If that was true, you'd think there would be fewer gun- related murders in the US.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Interesting. I never looked at it that way before.

So you're asserting that areas controlled by the Left are more murderous? When I look at their general disrespect for unborn children; I almost feel swayed by this unsubstantiated opinion.

Again you have cause and effect mistaken. In this case both crime and left-leaning are consequences of a third factor: population density.

 

[HARK!]

A civilized society where people don't routinely own military-grade weapons protects everyone.

That depends on how you define civility.

"...but if circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude, that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people, while there is a large body of citizens, little if at all inferior to them in discipline and use of arms, who stand ready to defend their rights..." (Alexander Hamilton speaking of standing armies in Federalist 29.)

China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Gun Control History

 

[iluvatar5150]

That depends on how you define civility.

"...but if circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude, that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people, while there is a large body of citizens, little if at all inferior to them in discipline and use of arms, who stand ready to defend their rights..." (Alexander Hamilton speaking of standing armies in Federalist 29.)

This doesn't describe our populace at all. Nor, for all the right's fetishizing of weapon proliferation has there been any push to turn our populace into something approaching this. No, the calls are always for "more guns" and very rarely for the vigorous training that would be required to develop the proficiency that Hamilton described.

 

[wing2000]

That depends on how you define civility.

"...but if circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude, that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people, while there is a large body of citizens, little if at all inferior to them in discipline and use of arms, who stand ready to defend their rights..." (Alexander Hamilton speaking of standing armies in Federalist 29.)

China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Gun Control History

...ah, back to the fantasy of the US government disarming the citizens. We can't have any legislation that would say, expand background checks because that would send us down the slippery slope to Communist China! SMH

 

[Jamdoc]

Honestly if anything needs to be banned for civilian sale as a result of these last 2 mass shootings?

It's body armor.

There's no constitutional right to own body armor, nobody uses body armor to hunt, no homeowner straps up body armor if they're responding to the sound of someone breaking into their home at night (but reaching for a loaded firearm they will do)...

But 2 shooters wore body armor, and as a result, when armed security guards tried to stop them, they failed because of the body armor (and police and guards and military are trained to aim center mass, where body armor protects, and they don't expect a culprit to be wearing armor). Good guys with guns failed, because of body armor.
The only purpose body armor will serve, is making a criminal more likely to outgun responding police officers, with the shooter knowing the cop is likely wearing body armor and taking head shots, while the police assume the suspect is not wearing body armor and aim at the chest.

Frankly, the idea of someone breaking into my home at night armed and with body armor... is kind of a scary thought. Them being armed but without body armor, I still have the advantage, also being armed, and knowing my home's layout in the dark far better than a home invader. But in the dark, even with a weapon mounted flashlight? I'm going to aim center mass. Body armor would result in my shots being ineffective and blowing my advantage.

So go ahead, ban civilian possession of body armor, as owning it is not going to protect me, but it might protect a criminal that breaks in, it certainly protected 2 mass shooters and cost the lives of security guards and police officers.

 

[HARK!]

If that was true, you'd think there would be fewer gun- related murders in the US.

A. Guns save more lives than they take; prevent more injuries than they inflict
* Guns used 2.5 million times a year in self-defense. Law-abiding citizens use guns to defend themselves against criminals as many as 2.5 million times every year — or about 6,850 times a day. [1] This means that each year, firearms are used more than 80 times more often to protect the lives of honest citizens than to take lives. [2]

[2] According to the National Safety Council, the total number of gun deaths (by accidents, suicides and homicides) account for less than 30,000 deaths per year. See Injury Facts, published yearly by the National Safety Council, Itasca, Illinois.

Fact Sheet: Guns Save Lives | GOA

 

[HARK!]

However, AR-15's have been involved in some incidents involving spectacular carnage and mass shootings.

Mass public shootings rightly terrify us, but they remain statistically very rare. The same is true of firearm deaths related to the use of semi-automatic "assault weapons." You are, in fact, three times more likely to be beaten to death with hands and feet than you are to be shot to death with a rifle of any kind.

Broad Gun-Control Restrictions Are Not the Answer

 

[HARK!]

...ah, back to the fantasy of the US government disarming the citizens. We can't have any legislation that would say, expand background checks because that would send us down the slippery slope to Communist China! SMH

Is not NICS still in effect?

 

[HARK!]

This doesn't describe our populace at all. Nor, for all the right's fetishizing of weapon proliferation has there been any push to turn our populace into something approaching this. No, the calls are always for "more guns" and very rarely for the vigorous training that would be required to develop the proficiency that Hamilton described.

I think that firearms training should begin in the 1st grade. Maybe we can get our politicians on board.

 

[iluvatar5150]

A. Guns save more lives than they take; prevent more injuries than they inflict
* Guns used 2.5 million times a year in self-defense. Law-abiding citizens use guns to defend themselves against criminals as many as 2.5 million times every year — or about 6,850 times a day. [1] This means that each year, firearms are used more than 80 times more often to protect the lives of honest citizens than to take lives. [2]

Those statistics are laughable, bogus on their face, and have been ripped apart for years.

There are 330 million people in the US (of all ages), of whom about 81.4 million are gun owners.

2.5 million DGU's/yr averages out to 1 out of every 140 persons or 1 out of every 32.5 gun owners using a gun defensively every single year.

How many people do you know you whipped out a gun last year to defend themselves?

It's double the number of violent crimes reported every year:
Violent Crime

From what I recall, Kleck asked people to self-report DGU's and didn't take any steps to verify anything about the claims, including the time frames in which they allegedly occurred.

[2] According to the National Safety Council, the total number of gun deaths (by accidents, suicides and homicides) account for less than 30,000 deaths per year. See Injury Facts, published yearly by the National Safety Council, Itasca, Illinois.

Fact Sheet: Guns Save Lives | GOA

Your data is very old. It's over 45,000 now.
What the data says about gun deaths in the U.S.

 

[Fantine]

I am shocked. It sounds as if gun owners are danger magnets. Defending themselves with guns 2.5 million times per year?
It sure makes me glad to be gun free spending most of my leisure time with my gun free liberal friends.
I lived in metro NY 40 years. Rode the subway daily for 3 of them. Visited the city quite a bit for the nightlife when I was younger. Never mugged, robbed, burglarized, accosted. Had my car overheat on the BQE and had to get off in a "dangerous" neighborhood. The people who helped me were so kind. If you treat people with respect they usually return it.
Of course your stat is from gunowners.org, not exactly an unbiased source.
But I'd advise you all to make some liberal friends. We never get into these messy situations.

 

[NxNW]

A. Guns save more lives than they take; prevent more injuries than they inflict

If this was true, you'd think there would be fewer gun-related deaths in the US compared to the rest of the world.