The latter Days: The type of the latter days

[DavidPT]

Christian Gedge goes into detail about how the 1,290 and 1,335 days are linked to this adding of days to the calendar in his book "The Atonement Clock". An excellent read.

Except most of what he wrote in that book, which I did try reading, is way over my head. Therefore, the book not enlightening me. But that might be my fault. But still, if something is over one's head, it's over one's head. Not much one can do about it in that case.

I don't understand why not knowing what those sealed mysteries of Daniel entailed, or whether they were unsealed or partly unsealed and the rest will be unsealed at the time of the end of the antichrist's kingdom (or whatever) would make any difference to the fact that Daniel's fourth kingdom was the final Seleucid Hellenist kingdom of Antiochus IV, and is the type of the kingdom of the antichrist that is coming.

Daniel 8:8 Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.
9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.
,

Some interpreters argue that it might be out of one of the 4 winds,, that out of one of them came forth a little horn. What I find interesting about that argument, assuming the 4 winds are involving compass directions North, South, East, and West, in verse 9 it mentions these compass directions except for North. which could mean it is out of the North came forth a little horn.

And what about Daniel 7? Here we see it also involving 4, 4 beasts in this case, and that it mentions the 4 winds of heaven. Is that something significant? Maybe, maybe not, yet both accounts involve 4 of something, and both accounts mention the 4 winds of heaven in relation to 4 of something. 4 notable ones per Daniel 8. 4 beasts per Daniel 7. Something to ponder anyway.

Daniel 7:2 Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea.
3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.

If nothing else, at least we know which of the 4, whether meaning notable ones, or whether meaning the winds, that the little horn according to Daniel 7 comes out of the 4th beast.

Daniel 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.



Daniel 8:27 And I Daniel fainted, and was sick certain days; afterward I rose up, and did the king's business; and I was astonished at the vision, but none understood it.


Let's assume the vision Daniel saw involved what A4E would do in a literal brick and mortar temple in ancient times similar to the times he was living in. IOW, not involving modern times like we might live in. Does it seem reasonable that this would be Daniel's reaction to the vision if pertaining to something A4E would do in ancient times---and I was astonished at the vision, but none understood it? Of course not, the fact the vision involves the time of the end, which then means, assuming Christ returns sometime in the 21st century, that it involves the 21st century. Which then means no literal temple is involved to begin with. No wonder Daniel was astonished at the vision, and that he nor anyone at the time understood it. Why not if it allegedly involves what A4E would ultimately do in the temple involving a pig? Daniel never saw a pig before?

Daniel 11:33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.
34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.
35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white. This sounds like something that fits the NT church age, not the age A4E lived in.

yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.

Some of this reminds me of the following.

Revelation 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Should we apply Revelation 13:10 in a literal sense then apply it to the era of time involving A4E?

If Scripture interprets Scripture, what Scripture is Revelation 13:10 interpreting?

Maybe in Daniel 11:33, this many days in question, Scripture interprets it be meaning Revelation 13:5? IOW, these many days meaning this same 42 months?

 

[Wayne Gabler]

At some point, to recognize that the prophecies are being fulfilled - real people are going to have to be identified as the ten kings (leaders) and the little horn. I have my eye on Zelenesky as the little horn - maybe. Too early to tell.

Do you have any candidates, yet ?

For the little horn? Yes I do, Rome and her 500-year rule over Jerusalem:

Da:8:9-12:
And out of one of them came forth a little horn,
which waxed exceeding great, (great dominion from the brass in Da:2 63BC-450AD)
toward the south,
and toward the east,
and toward the pleasant land. (direction between Rome and Jerusalem)
And it waxed great, (their sword ruled Jerusalem)
even to the host of heaven; (their role in the 4 Gospels, including being a Judge over Jesus)
and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, (Peter and Paul died at the hands of Romans, by design from God)
and stamped upon them. (scattering associated with 70AD)
Yea,
he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, (crucifixion of Jesus)
and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, (His death changed forgiveness from animal sacrifice to repenting in private prayer)
and the place of his sanctuary was cast down. (Luke:21:24 theme)
And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, (book of Romans)
and it cast down the truth to the ground; (false teachers arose after the Bible was completed in 323AD for the leaders of Rome)
and it practised, (carried on until 450AD in the same format that existed in 30AD)
and prospered. (the Gentile Church grew in power thanks to Christians obeying the Romans:13 guidelines)

 

[Wayne Gabler]

Except most of what he wrote in that book, which I did try reading, is way over my head. Therefore, the book not enlightening me. But that might be my fault. But still, if something is over one's head, it's over one's head. Not much one can do about it in that case.

That only means there is some other passage(s) that will remove any mystery, a little bit at a time. It will not be something that happens overnight, it might take a decade or so, depending on who your friends are.

 

[DavidPT]

That only means there is some other passage(s) that will remove any mystery, a little bit at a time. It will not be something that happens overnight, it might take a decade or so, depending on who your friends are.

That makes sense. But even so, there are some subjects I'm less interested in to begin with. What CG wrote in that book, being one of those subjects. It doesn't mean that subject is not important, though.

 

[Douggg]

For the little horn? Yes I do, Rome and her 500-year rule over Jerusalem:

Da:8:9-12:
And out of one of them came forth a little horn,
which waxed exceeding great, (great dominion from the brass in Da:2 63BC-450AD)
toward the south,
and toward the east,
and toward the pleasant land. (direction between Rome and Jerusalem)
And it waxed great, (their sword ruled Jerusalem)
even to the host of heaven; (their role in the 4 Gospels, including being a Judge over Jesus)
and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, (Peter and Paul died at the hands of Romans, by design from God)
and stamped upon them. (scattering associated with 70AD)
Yea,
he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, (crucifixion of Jesus)
and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, (His death changed forgiveness from animal sacrifice to repenting in private prayer)
and the place of his sanctuary was cast down. (Luke:21:24 theme)
And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, (book of Romans)
and it cast down the truth to the ground; (false teachers arose after the Bible was completed in 323AD for the leaders of Rome)
and it practised, (carried on until 450AD in the same format that existed in 30AD)
and prospered. (the Gentile Church grew in power thanks to Christians obeying the Romans:13 guidelines)

Wayne, the little horn is a king.

Daniel 8:23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.

 

[Wayne Gabler]

Wayne, the little horn is a king.

Daniel 8:23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.

Da:2:38-40:
And wheresoever the children of men dwell,
the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand,
and hath made thee ruler over them all.
Thou art this head of gold.
And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee,
and another third kingdom of brass,
which shall bear rule over all the earth.
And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron:
forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things:
and as iron that breaketh all these,
shall it break in pieces and bruise.

Rome is the kingdom that shall bear rule over the whole earth. Rome is the little horn. Rome lost control of Jerusalem in about 450AD. They were not overcome bu the iron/clay kingdom that you referenced. Your reference applies to the kingdom mentioned in Da:11 that says the same thing.
The two witnesses are the last mortal kings that have control of Jerusalem, they are killed by a fallen angel as part of that 3 1/2 year rule.
You reference should be ' in the latter days of the brass kingdom' rather than, 'in the last days of the little horn rule over Jerusalem as they are not killed, they thrive and prosper until their end;

Da:8:12:
And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression,
and it cast down the truth to the ground;
and it practised,
and prospered.

 

[5thKingdom]

At some point, to recognize that the prophecies are being fulfilled - real people are going to have to be identified as the ten kings

The Ten "Kings" and Ten "Horns" of Daniel are also the same people as
The Ten "Kings" and Ten "Horns" of Rev 17 and also the same people as
The Ten "Kings" and Ten "Toes" of Daniel 2 and also the same people as
The Ten "Virgins" of Matthew 25... saved "wise virgins" and unsaved "foolish virgins"


In EACH case they represent the last "wheat and tares" who are "harvested" OUT of the (3rd) Christian Kingdom
INTO the (4th) Great Tribulation Kingdom. Remember what Saint John PROMISED,
these last "wheat and tares" have NO KINGDOM when he wrote...
they would have a Kingdom with the Revelation "Beast"


Rev 17:12-13
And the TEN HORNS which thou sawest are TEN KINGS, [the Ten Virgins] which have received no kingdom as yet;
but [they] receive power as kings one hour with the beast. These have one mind,
and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.


Now... WHY in the world would the Last Saints (Part of the Ten Virgins]
WHY would they ever "give their power and strength to the Beast"?
And the answer is easy:


Rev 17:17
For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast,
until the words of God shall be fulfilled.


The BIBLE talks about this "harvest" of the last "wheat and tares" in several places
my favorite is the passage below:


Mat 25:1-2
THEN shall the [Great Tribulation] Kingdom of Heaven be likened unto [look like] TEN VIRGINS,
which took their lamps [their Gospels], and WENT FORTH [from the 3rd Kingdom, into the 4th Kingdom]
to meet the bridegroom [Jesus]. And five of them were wise [saved wheat], and five were foolish [unsaved tares].


The "THEN" in Matthew 25:1 is NOT the start of the (2nd) Jewish Kingdom – or (3rd) Christian Kingdom
(at Pentecost). Instead, it's the start of Daniel's Fourth (Great Tribulation) "Kingdom of Heaven".
It's the start of Satan’s “Little Season”. It’s the rising of the 7-Headed Revelation Beast.
It begins the reign of the Anti-Christ for 3.5 “times/days/years/watches of the night”.


The “THEN” in Matthew 25:1 is when all of the Last Saints “went forth” with the Beast.
Before we can understand when, in history, the “THEN” occurs… we must first be able to discern
where the Last Saints “went forth” from (3rd Kingdom), and where they “went forth” into (4th Kingdom).
We must be able to discern the context of the passage, as it relates to Daniel’s Fourth “Kingdom of Heaven”.


Most New Testament “experts” claim the events in Matthew 25:1-13 are experiences of the New Testament church.
In other words, they think “THEN” is Pentecost when the early Saints “went forth” preaching the Great Commission.
But that’s not possible within the context of the passage. First, Matthew chapters 24 and 25 are revealing events within
the Great Tribulation, so the context of “THEN” would be that (4th) Great Tribulation “Kingdom of Heaven” [Mat 25:1],
instead of Pentecost in 33AD. But there’s much more – the events of the parable/prophecy never happened in history!
And no Christian church is teaching these critically important events happen in the future of the Christian Kingdom.


Mat 25:8-10
And the [unsaved] foolish [virgins] said unto the [saved] wise [virgins], Give us of your oil; for our lamps
are gone out. But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather
to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. And while they went to buy, the Bridegroom [Jesus] came; and they that
were ready [the Wise Virgins] went in with Him [with Jesus] to the Marriage: and the Door was Shut.


There is no time in history (since Pentecost) when the Saints REJECTED people looking for salvation, sending them
to some other (unnamed) group for their salvation. That just never happened in history (reality) during the period of the
Great Commission. And no “Christian” Gospel now teaches these events happen in the future. However, these events
happen exactly that way during the Great Tribulation… as the “wheat” and “tares” are separated in the “final harvest”.
Only after we understand the context of Daniel’s Fourth “Kingdom” can we know when “THEN” occurs in time.


In fact, the parable/prophecy of the Ten Virgins, during the Great Tribulation “Kingdom of Heaven” [Mat 25:1],
is actually a brief outline of events occurring during the Fourth Kingdom on earth. The Ten Virgins represent
the “wheat and tares” in the church that God “harvests” into the Fourth Kingdom. Some are saved “wheat” and
others are unsaved “tares”. The Christian church has always consisted of both saved “wheat” and unsaved “tares”.
And the (4th) Great Tribulation Kingdom consists of both "wheat and tares" who were "harvested"
out of the (3rd) Christian Kingdom AFTER the Great Commission was compete
and the LAST SAINT is "sealed" [Rev 7:1-3]


Rev 7:1-3 is clear:
The LAST SAINT must be "sealed" BEFORE the Revelation Beast / Great Tribulation / Satan's "Little Season" can BEGIN
This is a Biblical "mystery" not taught during the Great Commission. Salvation ENDS before the Fourth Beast
can BEGIN.


Rev 7:1-3
And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth,
that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. And I saw another angel ascending from the east,
having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

and the little horn.

The "Little Horn" is the Anti-Christ
He is also shown as the "False Prophet" and the "Man of Sin"


He is the person that "overcomes" the Last Saints (part of the Ten "Kings/Horns/Virgins")
as he leads them OUT of the (3rd) Christian Kingdom and INTO the (4th) Great Tribulation Kingdom.


The Last Saints are excellent theologians. The "Little Horn" is the BEST theologian because
he overcomes the Last Saints "with flatteries" (preaching a faithful Gospel)
and he understands "dark sentences" (Biblical mysteries)


The Last Saints follow the "Little Horn" into the Great Tribulation Kingdom / Revelation Beast
because they think he is preacher God sent for the "Time-of-the-End".
This is the "Abomination of Desolation" of the Fourth Beast...
as the Saints are RULED by this "Man of Sin"
instead of the Holy Spirit.


The Last Saints ("wise virgins") follow the "Little Horn" until the END of the FIRST Revelation Beast...
shown as the END of the 1st Woe and the END of the 5th Trumpet and the END of the rule of the 7th "head/king"
The Last Saints DO NOT follow the "Little Horn" in the SECOND Revelation Beast...
the 2nd Woe, the Sixth Trumpet and the 8th "head/king"


The NATURE of the Fourth Beast / Revelation Beast / Great Tribulation / Satan's "Little Season"
is that the Saints are RULED by the Anti-Christ, Satan's chief emissary on earth.
As the "Man of Sin" rules in the "Temple" of the Fourth Kingdom...
until the "Ancient of Days Came".





/

 

[5thKingdom]

Wayne, the little horn is a king.

Daniel 8:23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.

The "Little Horn" is the Anti-Christ RULING over the Ten "Kings" and Ten "Horns" and Ten "Virgins" during the FOURTH BEAST.
He is called by other names including the "False Prophet" and the "Man of Sin"
He is Satan's chief emissary on earth during the FOURTH BEAST...
the Revelation Beast and Great Tribulation Kingdom.


Dan 7:21-22
I beheld, and the same [Little] Horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High;
and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.


Dan 7:24-26
And the TEN HORNS out of this [FOURTH] Kingdom are TEN KINGS that shall arise:
and another [Little Horn] shall rise AFTER them; and he shall be diverse [different] from the first [Horns/Kings],
and he shall subdue three kings [the Last Saints]. And he shall speak great words against the most High,
and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they
[the Ten "Kings/Horns/Virgins"] shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
[the duration of the Fourth Kingdom] But the judgment [of God] shall sit [shall rule], and
and they [the Ten "Kings/Horns/Virgins"] shall take away his [the Little Horn]
dominion [spiritual authority] , to consume and to destroy
it [the Fourth Kingdom] unto the end [when the Lord Returns].


/

 

[Douggg]

Rome is the kingdom that shall bear rule over the whole earth. Rome is the little horn.

Rome is not a king, but a kingdom. The little horn will be the king of fierce countenance.

Daniel 8:3 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.

 

[Zao is life]

At some point, to recognize that the prophecies are being fulfilled - real people are going to have to be identified as the ten kings (leaders) and the little horn. I have my eye on Zelenesky as the little horn - maybe. Too early to tell7 for certain.

Do you have any candidates, yet ?

No I have no candidates but unlike you, I believe he will become known as a prominent Christian leader and possibly as the head of the church. I only believe in one temple of God that can be defiled.

 

[DavidPT]

The Ten "Kings" and Ten "Horns" of Daniel are also the same people as
The Ten "Kings" and Ten "Horns" of Rev 17 and also the same people as
The Ten "Kings" and Ten "Toes" of Daniel 2 and also the same people as

I definitely agree with this. But as to be meaning the 10 virgins as well, I can't say that I agree with that, though.

It doesn't make sense, the fact 5 of those virgins are wise, thus enter into the marriage when Jesus returns, and the fact the 10 horns involve the following, how one can then insist it is reasonable that the 10 virgins are the same 10 kings.

Revelation 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
14 ¶These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.


One is to then believe, not only do the 5 foolish virgins make war with the Lamb, so do the 5 wise virgins, and that the Lamb shall overcome all 10 virgins? I wonder why 5 of those virgins make into the marriage and 5 of them don't, if all 10 of them make war with the Lamb, and that the Lamb overcomes all of them?

Trying to convince you that you are way off in some of your reasoning of things is like trying to convince JWs that they are wrong to insist Jesus is not God. They flat out deny that you even proved them wrong though you clearly did. With a mindset like that, which appears to be a mindset you have, that even though you are proved wrong numerous times, all you can do is deny it rather than ever admitting it. As if that proves you are correct the fact you deny you have ever been proven wrong.

 

[5thKingdom]

And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white. This sounds like something that fits the NT church age, not the age A4E lived in.

There can be no doubt the TIME PERIOD the "Little Horn" and the Ten "Kings/Horns/Virgins"
represents the (4th) Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 25:1] also shown as the (1) the Revelation Beast
and (2) Daniel's Fourth Beast and (3) the RULE of the Anti-Christ (4) DURING Satan's "Little Season"...
THAT IS THE PERIOD that continues to the "Time-of-the-End" [Dan 11:35]


There can be no doubt the TIME PERIOD continues until the "Time-of-the-End.
"They that understand" represents the Last Saints (the "wise virgins" being PART of the Ten "Kings/Horns/Virgins"
They "fall by the sword" [Word of God] DURING THAT TIME PERIOD and they "instruct many" [foolish virgins]
and many [foolish virgins] shall "cleave to them with flatteries"... all this is concluded NOT DURING THE CHURCH AGE
but during the Great Tribulation / Revelation Beast/Satan's "Little Season"... that CONTINUES until the "Time-of-the-End"...
which is "yet for a time appointed"... or the Lord's Return.


Dan 11:33
And they that understand among the people [the Last Saints or wise virgins] shall instruct many [foolish virgins]:
yet they [the Last Saints] shall fall by the sword, [the Word] and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.
[during the Revelation Beast] Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many [foolish virgins]
shall cleave to them with flatteries. And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge,
and to make them white, even to the TIME-OF-THE-END: because it [the END] is yet for a time appointed.

Maybe in Daniel 11:33, this many days in question, Scripture interprets it be meaning Revelation 13:5? IOW, these many days meaning this same 42 months?

The "many days" represents the 2300 LITERAL days ["evening/morning"] of the First Revelation Beast.
This is when the "Abomination of Desolation" occurs... during Daniel's FOURTH Beast, the Revelation Beast
the Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 25:1], the RULE of the Anti-Christ DURING Satan's "Little Season"


Dan 12:11-12
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the Abomination that maketh Desolate SET-UP,
there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.


Now, some COULD argue the "many days" represents the ENTIRE Fourth Kingdom...
and that could be true because the Anti-Christ has "dominion" for 3/5 "times/days/years/watches of the night"...
which represents the duration of the Fourth Kingdom.


The Last Kingdom before the Lord's Return - consisting of "Ten Virgins" and "Ten Kings" and "Ten Horns",
these same people are shown in other passages (by many different names) and each passage must be harmonized to have Truth.
Below is a (partial) list of Biblical names given – to represent the people living during Daniel's Fourth "Kingdom of Heaven".


The "Kingdom" which the Anti-Christ "obtains with flatteries" [Dan 11]

The "Mighty and Holy People" who are "destroyed" by the Anti-Christ [Dan 8]

The "Sanctuary and Host" that are "trodden under foot" by the Anti-Christ [Dan 8]

The "Holy City" which the Anti-Christ "treads under foot" for 42 months/3.5 years [Rev 11]

The "Kings" that are "given into his hand" (the Anti-Christ's hand) for 3.5 "times" [Dan 7]

The "Holy People" whose "power is scattered" by the Anti-Christ for 3.5 "times" [Dan 12]

The "Woman" which is hidden from the face of the "serpent" for 3.5 "times" [Rev 12]

The "Witnesses" which are "overcome" and "killed" by Satan for 3.5 "days" [Rev 11]

The "Kingdom" which is "overflown" and "broken" by the Anti-Christ [Dan 11]

The "Host and the Stars" that are "cast down" by the Anti-Christ [Dan 8]


While the people alive during Daniel's Fourth Kingdom are shown [Mat 25] as the "Ten Virgins" that "went forth"
into the 4th Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven"... and they are shown [Dan 7] as the "Ten Kings" and "Ten Horns"
that were "given into the hand" of the Anti-Christ... and they are shown [Rev 17] as the "Ten Kings" and the "Ten Horns"
that "agreed to give their Kingdom to the Beast", the Bible contains (literally) DOZENS of other passages that talk about
these same people, and every one of the passages must be harmonized before we can pretend to have more than partial-truth.


/

 

[Zao is life]

Except most of what he wrote in that book, which I did try reading, is way over my head. Therefore, the book not enlightening me. But that might be my fault. But still, if something is over one's head, it's over one's head. Not much one can do about it in that case.



Daniel 8:8 Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.
9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.
,

Some interpreters argue that it might be out of one of the 4 winds,, that out of one of them came forth a little horn. What I find interesting about that argument, assuming the 4 winds are involving compass directions North, South, East, and West, in verse 9 it mentions these compass directions except for North. which could mean it is out of the North came forth a little horn.

And what about Daniel 7? Here we see it also involving 4, 4 beasts in this case, and that it mentions the 4 winds of heaven. Is that something significant? Maybe, maybe not, yet both accounts involve 4 of something, and both accounts mention the 4 winds of heaven in relation to 4 of something. 4 notable ones per Daniel 8. 4 beasts per Daniel 7. Something to ponder anyway.

Daniel 7:2 Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea.
3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.

If nothing else, at least we know which of the 4, whether meaning notable ones, or whether meaning the winds, that the little horn according to Daniel 7 comes out of the 4th beast.

Daniel 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.



Daniel 8:27 And I Daniel fainted, and was sick certain days; afterward I rose up, and did the king's business; and I was astonished at the vision, but none understood it.


Let's assume the vision Daniel saw involved what A4E would do in a literal brick and mortar temple in ancient times similar to the times he was living in. IOW, not involving modern times like we might live in. Does it seem reasonable that this would be Daniel's reaction to the vision if pertaining to something A4E would do in ancient times---and I was astonished at the vision, but none understood it? Of course not, the fact the vision involves the time of the end, which then means, assuming Christ returns sometime in the 21st century, that it involves the 21st century. Which then means no literal temple is involved to begin with. No wonder Daniel was astonished at the vision, and that he nor anyone at the time understood it. Why not if it allegedly involves what A4E would ultimately do in the temple involving a pig? Daniel never saw a pig before?

Daniel 11:33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.
34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.
35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white. This sounds like something that fits the NT church age, not the age A4E lived in.

yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.

Some of this reminds me of the following.

Revelation 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Should we apply Revelation 13:10 in a literal sense then apply it to the era of time involving A4E?

If Scripture interprets Scripture, what Scripture is Revelation 13:10 interpreting?

Maybe in Daniel 11:33, this many days in question, Scripture interprets it be meaning Revelation 13:5? IOW, these many days meaning this same 42 months?

I see it as having happened in the days of A4E and happening again at the end of this age. I don't find anything more special about those with understanding falling and being tried, purged and made white about the latter time than the former, except that in each case it was and will be the greatest tribulation the saints had ever come under, and the latter will be worse than the former.

During a time of testing there is always a purging of some:

Zechariah 13
7 Awake, O sword, against My Shepherd, and against the Man who is My companion, says the LORD of hosts; strike the Shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered. And I will turn My hand on the little ones.
8 And it shall be in all the land, says the LORD, two parts in it shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left in it.
9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried. They shall call on My name, and I will answer them; I will say, It is My people; and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

Revelation 3
18 I counsel you to buy from Me gold tried in the fire, so that you may be rich; and white clothing, so that you may be clothed, and so that the shame of your nakedness does not appear. And anoint your eyes with eye salve, so that you may see.

So A time of testing occurred when Antiochus banned the faith and persecuted the faithful - and it was greater than anything that had ever come before it, and the same thing goes for the last time before Jesus returns. And if it's greater than anything that came before it then it means it's greater even than what the faithful Jews went through during the days of Antiochus' control of Judea and Jerusalem, and its temple.

I do trust the historians and scholars such as Matthew Henry's word for it that the kings of the north and the south etc and all those passages were fulfilled. Mathew Henry's commentary gives a detailed account verse by verse in each chapter, except where he's not sure of the details and then he says so. I don't see how the history that correlates with the prophecy (it was still in the future when Daniel wrote) should be brushed aside. These things have a habit of repeating themselves:

 

[Zao is life]

@DavidPT Even this repeated itself on the exact same day of the biblical calendar:

 

[5thKingdom]

I definitely agree with this. But as to be meaning the 10 virgins as well, I can't say that I agree with that, though.

The PEOPLE living in Daniel's Fourth Beast/Kingdom are the PEOPLE living on earth when the Lord Returns.
There can be no doubt the Ten "Horns" and Ten "Kings" and Ten "Toes" are these PEOPLE


Dan 2:44
And in the DAYS OF THESE KINGS shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed:
and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms,
and it shall stand for ever.


Now... the Bible is VERY CLEAR about the TIME PERIOD when the Ten "Virgins" exist.
Notice the "Wise Virgins" [representing the Last Saints] live until they are taken into the "marriage"
and the DOOR WAS SHUT.


Mat 25:10
And while they [the foolish virgins] went to buy, the bridegroom [Jesus] CAME;
and they that were ready [the Wise Virgins] went in with him to the marriage:
and the DOOR WAS SHUT.


The Ten "Kings" and Ten "Horns" and Ten "Virgins" are the SAME PEOPLE
the last "wheat and tares" living in the FOURTH Beast... also shown as (1) the Revelation Beast
and (2) the Great Tribulation Kingdom and (3) the RULE of the Anti-Christ (4) DURING Satan's "Little Season".

One is to then believe, not only do the 5 foolish virgins make war with the Lamb, so do the 5 wise virgins, and that the Lamb shall overcome all 10 virgins?

The Ten "Kings/Horns/Virgins" represent the PEOPLE living in the FOURTH BEAST...
the (1) Revelation Beast, the (2) Great Tribulation Kingdom, the (3) RULE of the Anti-Christ (4) DURING Satan's "Little Season"


The Lamb OVERCOMES the Revelation Beast
which INCULDES both the "wise virgins" [Last Saints] and the "foolish virgins"


However, while the "wise virgins" followed the Anti-Christ during the FIRST Revelation Beast
(the 1st Woe and 5th Trumpet and 7th "head/king"... the "wise virgins" DID NOT FOLLOW
the SECOND Revelation Beast (the 2nd Woe and 6th Trumpet and 8th "head/king")


In fact, the "wise virgins" [Last Saints"] are "harvested OUT of the Revelation Beast BEFORE it is destoryed.
Here are five (5) passages showing the "Final Harvest" of the Last Saints [wise virgins]
JUST BEFORE the Revelation Beast is DESTROYED.


(1) In Matthew 25 destruction of the Fourth Kingdom of "Babylon the Great" is shown [v.10] when the "Door was Shut".
The "Final Harvest" of the “Wise Virgins” is shown [v.10] as they are taken into the "Marriage" saying;
"they that were ready went in with Him to the Marriage: and the Door was Shut".


(2) In Revelation 18 the destruction of the Fourth Kingdom is shown [v.2] as "Babylon the Great is fallen, is fallen".
The "Final Harvest" of “Wise Virgins”, immediately before the destruction of Babylon, is shown [v.4] as the Lord Commands
the Last Saints to "Come out of her, My people". And the Last Saints are told [v.20] to "rejoice"
over the destruction of Babylon for "God hath avenged you on her".


(3) In Revelation 19 the destruction of Babylon is shown [v.20] as the False Prophet and Revelations Beast are
"cast alive" into the eternal "Lake-of-Fire". The "Final Harvest" immediately before destruction of the "great harlot"
[v.2] is shown as the Saints are commanded [v.17] to "gather yourselves together unto the SUPPER of the Great God”.
Then [v.9] the "Final Harvest" is shown when the Saints are "called unto the MARRIAGE SUPPER of the Lamb".
Again we see, [v.2] when God destroys the Kingdom of "Babylon" He also "hath avenged the blood of His servants".
This FULFILLS a promise God made to earlier Saints – in completion of the Fifth Seal [Rev 6:9-11]. This is important!


(4) In Revelation 11 the destruction of Babylon is shown [v.13] as a "great earthquake", and the "Final Harvest"
is shown [v.12] as the Last Saints are commanded to "Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud".
Again the "Final Harvest" is shown occurring immediately before destruction of the Fourth Beast. However, this time,
the Bible reveals [v.14] the TIMING of this event – it is just before the end of the "Second Woe"... that is important.


(5) In Daniel 7 the destruction of the Fourth Beast is shown [v.11] when "the Beast was slain, and his body destroyed,
and given to the Burning Flame". The "Final Harvest" of Saints is shown [v.18] as "the Saints of the Most High shall
take the Kingdom, and possess the Kingdom forever, even for ever and ever". Again, the "Final Harvest" is shown
[v.22] when "Judgment was given to the Saints of the Most High; and the time came that the Saints possessed the
Kingdom". In Daniel 7 the Bible actually reveals the NAME of this period on earth after the "Final Harvest",
after destruction of the Fourth Beast. The Bible [Dan 7:11-12] specifically names this period the "Season and Time".
Here we see the “Time-of-the-End” is also shown as the “Season and Time” after the Fourth Beast is destroyed.4


/

 

[Zao is life]

@DavidPT and here's the best repeat of them all

 

[Zao is life]

@DavidPT I'm not sure about this one but I created it long ago anyway:

 

[Zao is life]

Daniel 8:8 Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.
9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.
,

Some interpreters argue that it might be out of one of the 4 winds,, that out of one of them came forth a little horn.

The four winds of heaven are a metaphor for the 4 compass points, IMO.

What I find interesting about that argument, assuming the 4 winds are involving compass directions North, South, East, and West, in verse 9 it mentions these compass directions except for North. which could mean it is out of the North came forth a little horn.

Well the Seleucid Empire ruled from Macedonia in the Mediterranean, south of Greece. So yeah.

@DavidPT I think I may be mistaken. But if you check the map it makes sense.

Here's the map of the Seleucid Empire:

File:Seleucid-Empire 200bc.jpg - Wikimedia Commons

commons.wikimedia.org

 

[DavidPT]

Zechariah 13
7 Awake, O sword, against My Shepherd, and against the Man who is My companion, says the LORD of hosts; strike the Shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered. And I will turn My hand on the little ones.
8 And it shall be in all the land, says the LORD, two parts in it shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left in it.
9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried. They shall call on My name, and I will answer them; I will say, It is My people; and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

Actually, I was going to bring up that very passage but neglected to. I see that applying to the NT church age the fact verse 7 is quoted in the NT, apparently in Matthew 26:31 and Mark 14:27. Therefore, I'm not seeing how that might support that Daniel 11:35 might be applicable to the time period A4E lived in.

I do trust the historians and scholars such as Matthew Henry's word for it that the kings of the north and the south etc and all those passages were fulfilled. Mathew Henry's commentary gives a detailed account verse by verse in each chapter, except where he's not sure of the details and then he says so. I don't see how the history that correlates with the prophecy (it was still in the future when Daniel wrote) should be brushed aside. These things have a habit of repeating themselves

I guess that's where you and I somewhat differ. Whatever I concluded about some of these things never involved determining that via Commentaries. I'm mostly interested in the portions involving the time of the end, and that I don't see how A4E could even fit any of that if the time of the end never occurred during his lifetime, and that we are told in Daniel 12 that the words are shut up and sealed until the time of the end.

IMO, one purpose of prophecies is to forewarn one in advance as to what to expect in the future. What good would forewarning anyone in advance, as to what A4E would do involving a temple, help anyone in Daniel's future, meaning during the days of A4E, if the words are still shut up and sealed until the time of the end, thus no one understands them yet?

 

[DavidPT]

The "many days" represents the 2300 LITERAL days ["evening/morning"] of the First Revelation Beast.

Believe it or not I don't necessarily disagree with some of what you are concluding. For one, I found your interpetation of Daniel 11:33 rather interesting, believable, therefore, making some kind of sense to me. Which could mean that some of what you are concluding that I disagree with, it could be that I'm not comprehending how you are arriving at some of that, and not necessarily that you might be wrong. For instance, what I quoted above from your post. Care to expand on that some? If they are 2300 literal days involving the first beast, when did they begin, when did they end? Keeping in mind that your interpretation of Daniel 11:33 already has these 'many days' in question involving during the Revelation beast. Therefore, your position is not clear to me when you also trying to apply this 'many days' to that of IOW the first beast and the 2300 days.

As to this 2300 days, the fact the Revelation beast is involving polluting the temple, not a literal temple though, I then can't see the temple being cleansed until the Revelation beast is destroyed first. IOW, does the temple get polluted twice then cleansed twice? Or does it get polluted only one time, then cleansed only one time?