The Lake Of Fire

Major1 · Jul 12, 2020

FineLinen said:
There clearly is no chance within our Father. Zero!

No 1st, 2nd, third: NO CHANCE!

What He determines within Himself is the final outcome.

No surprises for the Creator

God is Omniscient

“His understanding is infinite; declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done.”

“Known unto God are all His works from the beginning of the world.” Psalm 147:5; Isa. 46:10; Acts 15:18.

God knew when he created Adam what would be the eternal destiny of every individual of his offspring, as surely as He will know when the last generation of man shall have enteredf inal state.

If all are to be saved, He knew it; and if part damned/annihilated, the fate of each individual soul was known to Him.

These conclusions are just as certain as that God’s knowledge is infinite.

God must have designed what He knew would be the eternal destiny of each individual of our race.

If He knew all would be saved, He must have designed the salvation of all; and if he knew part would be saved, and part damned without relief and without end, He must have designed the salvation of some and the damnation of others.

Every man designs what he knows will be the result of his voluntary acts. If I know when I speak to a certain person he will fall at my feet dead, and if I persist in speaking to him with this knowledge of the consequence, I, of course, intend he shall die; so if God knows the destiny of all men all who go into Him by His decree, and all who go to hell will go there by his decree.

This is just as certain as that two and two make four.

God has not created conscious beings, knowing and intending that eternal misery would be their doom!

It is impossible, utterly impossible!

You said..........
"God has not created conscious beings, knowing and intending that eternal misery would be their doom!"

But is that what God has actually said............NO!

Luke 16:23-24..........
"And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame."

Matthew 25:46.........
"And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

The universalistic theory you hold to has the idea of universal redemption. For example, a certain number of Scripture references are used to prove that Christ died for all men alike. Therefore all men alike shall be saved in the end. Universalism uses such texts as Paul’s when he said: “We preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus” (Colossians 1:28).

Certainly the Apostle could not have meant that he expected every man that ever came into the world to be made perfect in Christ. The words “every man” could refer only to those to whom Paul addressed his Epistle; namely, “To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ” (1:2). This theory does not deny that all men are lost by sin, but it contends that all men will finally be saved and enter into everlasting life. Universalism falls when it overlooks the Biblical fact that salvation and everlasting life are applied to no one apart from his personal acceptance of it as a divinely bestowed gift to “whosoever will.”

Isn't it interesting that every one of your opinions NEVER pass the Scripture test.

God says the very opposite of what you say!!!

FineLinen · Jul 12, 2020

Major1 said:
“We preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus” (Colossians 1:28).

Certainly the Apostle could not have meant that he expected every man that ever came into the world to be made perfect in Christ.

That is precisely what is meant.

One little word, one glorious outcome.

That little word is "at", recorded in some Bible translations.

What Does Philippians 2:10 Mean? "that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,."

"In order that in the name of Jesus every knee may bow -- of heavenlies, and earthlies, and what are under the earth --"

Major1 · Jul 12, 2020

Jord Simcha said:
Who do you think the Spirit and bride are calling in Revelation 22:17, if not the unbelievers?

That particular verse is what's called, "Parenthetical". It is at the end of the book but It speaks to everyone who is alive today and it is God's invitation to miss the torments described in the Revelation.

It also speaks to those Jews and Gentiles who have never heard the gospel to come to Christ and be saved.

The natural and inevitable consequence of sin is punishment. Proper punishment of a child does not derogate from the love of the parent. Sin condemns just as sure as fire burns, and God is justified in putting into effect the immortal law that “whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap” (Galatians 6:8).

Major1 · Jul 12, 2020

FineLinen said:
That is precisely what is meant.

One little word, one glorious outcome.

That little word is "at", recorded in some Bible translations.

What Does Philippians 2:10 Mean? "that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,."

"In order that in the name of Jesus every knee may bow -- of heavenlies, and earthlies, and what are under the earth --"

And AGAIN.........I agree 100% with your comment. I have done so now about a dozen times which bes the question of WHY do you keep posting it?

HOWEVER, there is no where in the Bible that says the people in the Lake of Fire who do what you just said are then REMOVED FROM THE LAKE OF FIRE!!!!

Yes they, and everyone will acknowledge Christ as Lord, but no where is there any Scriptures which says that those people will then be saved and removed from the LOF!!

YOU and I both know that so do you think if you keep saying something which is not true that some way some how it will change from a lie to a truth????

FineLinen · Jul 12, 2020

Major1 said:
And AGAIN.........I agree 100% with your comment.

If you could agree .3 percent we would be heading for higher ground for you Major.

"Certainly the Apostle could not have meant that he expected every man that ever came into the world to be made perfect in Christ. The words “every man” could refer only to those to whom Paul addressed his Epistle; namely, “To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ” (1:2)." -Major-

I know how much you despise the nasty pas and ta panta words, but alas, pas radically means all, and ta panta radically means the all.

Theos is the Source, Guide & Goal of the radical all!

Major1 · Jul 12, 2020

FineLinen said:
What is the meaning of the word "pure"?

1. Free from anything of a different, inferior, or contaminating kind; free from extraneous matter: pure gold; pure water.

2. Unmodified by an admixture; simple or homogeneous.
of unmixed descent or ancestry.

3. Free from foreign or inappropriate elements.

4. Clear/ free from blemishes.

Koine=

Hagnos = pure from defilement.

From hagios = HOLY.

Katharos = cleansed by fire. Pure.

The religion of Universalism that you and others are expounding, affirms that all people will be saved. You even go so far as to say that those in the Lake of Fire who have been judged guilty will then be saved and realeased.

Within this belief system the concepts of hell and punishment are rejected as inconsistent with a loving God. People often want to do away with a concept that they cannot understand.

However.........There are many things in the Bible we cannot understand;
1.
We can’t really understand how God spoke and the universe leapt into existence! But this does not stop one from accepting the fact from one who was there and passed it on.
2.
In the secular world the majority of people do not know how electricity works or why but they accept it in their everyday lives.

What we can understand from the bible we can know is true therefore it is not a blind leap to accept the things we may not fully understand. The premise for all this is the authority of the Scriptures being God inspired.

Now from what I have personally witnessed right here on this web site is that when
some specific questions are asked, we see very quickly that those spearheading this movement are committed to a view point that actually has NO BIBLE verification and they and do not hold to the infallibility or inerrancy of the Bible.

It is actually that simple!

FineLinen · Jul 12, 2020

Major1 said:
The religion of Universalism that you and others are expounding, affirms that all people will be saved.

Follow the bouncing ball Big Fellow>>>

The polus who are "made sinners" are the identical polus "made righteous".

Every broken wreck of sin and despair!

FineLinen · Jul 12, 2020

God is love: He is as a segment of His essence infinitely good.

“There is none good but one, that is God.” Mark 10:18.

“God is love.”

He is an infinite fountain of benevolence to every human being.

He hates nothing that He has made. He cannot hate, because He is love.

He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends His rain on the just and the unjust.

He has made no human being for perdition.

God is holy, just &, righteous. He is never called holiness or justice in the abstract.

This is the essence of the Divine One: all other attributes are only modifications of this.

God never created a soul knowing it would be miserable forever!

God is Omnipotent.

“The Lord Omnipotent reigneth.” Rev. 19:6.

Nothing is too mighty for him to do. He can save the world.

God possesses the power, and He will do it!

Saint Steven · Jul 12, 2020

Major1 said:
Steve, I think you have misunderstood what I have said.
I have not "inferred" anything.
I am saying clearly and very simply that what you are trying to convince others of ......
"A second chance at being saved AFTER DEATH and then being removed from the Lake of Fire"..........DOES NOT EXIST IN THE BIBLE!

I am sure that You and the others on here who are believing in such a thing are really great people and your intentions are worthy, BUT my dear friend, there is simply NO BIBLE SCRIPTURES to support such an idea.

You are of course free to believe anything you want to believe and all I am saying that you can not use the Bible to support something that is does not teach.

You are parroting Damnationist dogma. No surprise there. I was a Damnationist for most of my life. Been there, done that, left it behind. (good riddance)

The Bible does in fact support UR. And the Bible indicates that people did in fact have what you would call "a second chance" after death when Christ descended into the realm of the dead between his death and resurrection.

In the coming age those who have not even had a FIRST CHANCE will be redeemed from death. Their price has already been paid.

What do you make of this?

1 Timothy 4:10
That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God,
who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

Saint Steven · Jul 12, 2020

Major1 said:
I am sure that You and the others on here who are believing in such a thing are really great people and your intentions are worthy, BUT my dear friend, there is simply NO BIBLE SCRIPTURES to support such an idea.

I have shown you TONS of scriptures yet you continue to claim there are "NO BIBLE SCRIPTURES to support such an idea."

This strikes me as intellectually dishonest. How can you say such a thing about the scriptures others and myself have presented to you? Just because you either do not like them, or disagree with them, does not make them nonexistent. Right? Can't you at least play fair in this debate? I give you Damnationists and the Annihilationists credit for the scriptures you bring.

30+ Bible verses that support universal salvation

FineLinen · Jul 13, 2020

Saint Steven said:
I have shown you TONS of scriptures yet you continue to claim there are "NO BIBLE SCRIPTURES to support such an idea."

This strikes me as intellectually dishonest. How can you say such a thing about the scriptures others and myself have presented to you? Just because you either do not like them, or disagree with them, does not make them nonexistent. Right? Can't you at least play fair in this debate? I give you Damnationists and the Annihilationists credit for the scriptures you bring.

30+ Bible verses that support universal salvation

Dear comrad Saint Steve: One single expression of Abba is an alert to amazing unfolding of Him hiding from prying eyes.

I know a brother along the Colorado River who wrestled for long periods with these enunciations before his shazzam moment.

There is the need in every one of us who love the Lord, to press into the God of Glory. We must know for ourselves the spendour of the Father and the musterion secrets of His great heart.

Saint Steven · Jul 13, 2020

FineLinen said:
Dear comrad Saint Steve: One single expression of Abba is an alert to amazing unfolding of Him hiding from prying eyes.

I know a brother along the Colorado River who wrestled for long periods with these enunciations before his shazzam moment.

There is the need in every one of us who love the Lord, to press into the God of Glory. We must know for ourselves the spendour of the Father and the musterion secrets of His great heart.

Our completely unshazzammed opponents ask for scriptures. And when we provide them they claim that none have been provided. Apparently if they disagree with something, like the Bible, it suddenly fails to exist. This is a great mystery.

I'm imagining one of these folks having a burning bush experience and asking God, "Can I have chapter and verse on that?" - lol

Saint Steven · Jul 13, 2020

The message is clear - we were not sinners by choice. We were sinners by NATURE! We were BORN INTO this condition, simply because the first man, Adam, put us all into slavery to sin. We had nothing to say about it. We did not in any way will it, consent to it, or choose it, for we were born into it. And we were not born free moral agents. We were born slaves!

There is no fact more self-evident than the fact of the total depravity of man, or his TOTAL INABILITY to deliver himself from bondage to sin, and this is rooted in the fact that his human spirit is dead from birth. Total depravity means that man in his natural state is incapable of doing anything or desiring anything pleasing to God. Until our spirit is quickened by HIS SPIRIT we are slaves of the flesh and the devil and are enemies to God. When man insists that he still has a "spark" of divine good resident in his heart the Bible says, "The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked. Who can know it?" (Jer. 17:9). When man contends that he is a free moral agent and can accept or reject the Lord by his own volition, the Word of God contradicts him, declaring, "There is none righteous, no not one! There is none that understands, there is N-O-N-E THAT SEEKS after God" (Rom. 3:10-11).

Source: The Savior of the World, by J. Preston Eby
Kindgdom Bible Studies Savior of the World Series Part 1

FineLinen · Jul 13, 2020

Saint Steven said:
The message is clear - we were not sinners by choice. We were sinners by NATURE! We were BORN INTO this condition, simply because the first man, Adam, put us all into slavery to sin. We had nothing to say about it. We did not in any way will it, consent to it, or choose it, for we were born into it. And we were not born free moral agents. We were born slaves!

There is no fact more self-evident than the fact of the total depravity of man, or his TOTAL INABILITY to deliver himself from bondage to sin, and this is rooted in the fact that his human spirit is dead from birth. Total depravity means that man in his natural state is incapable of doing anything or desiring anything pleasing to God. Until our spirit is quickened by HIS SPIRIT we are slaves of the flesh and the devil and are enemies to God. When man insists that he still has a "spark" of divine good resident in his heart the Bible says, "The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked. Who can know it?" (Jer. 17:9). When man contends that he is a free moral agent and can accept or reject the Lord by his own volition, the Word of God contradicts him, declaring, "There is none righteous, no not one! There is none that understands, there is N-O-N-E THAT SEEKS after God" (Rom. 3:10-11).

Source: The Savior of the World, by J. Preston Eby
Kindgdom Bible Studies Savior of the World Series Part 1

Brother Steve: Total inability is the place every last son of Abba must come. The strut must be replaced with strategic hurt to all we are in our little faith, to excursion into the faith of the Son of God.

The initial experience of justification is a wonderful experience where this wonderful journey into Him begins.

The road of being made the righteousness of God in Him encompasses distress that is off the charts, as the mighty moves of God break with crashing waves upon our shores.

An overcomer is one who has made his way throught great distress to new Horizons.

I have been greatly enhanced by your faithfulness in presenting a remarkable expression of our lovely Lord, Preston Eby.

Major1 · Jul 13, 2020

Saint Steven said:
I have shown you TONS of scriptures yet you continue to claim there are "NO BIBLE SCRIPTURES to support such an idea."

This strikes me as intellectually dishonest. How can you say such a thing about the scriptures others and myself have presented to you? Just because you either do not like them, or disagree with them, does not make them nonexistent. Right? Can't you at least play fair in this debate? I give you Damnationists and the Annihilationists credit for the scriptures you bring.

30+ Bible verses that support universal salvation

NO Steve you have not done such a thing.

YOU have posted some Scriptures which YOU have completely misunderstood but not a ONE of them say the following..........
"THE PEOPLE CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE WILL THEN IN THE END OF THE AGE ACCEPT CHRIST AND THEN BE REMOVED FROM THE LAKE OF FIRE AND TAKEN TO HEAVEN".

Now you know very well that YOU have not done anything close to that and THAT to me is what intellectual dishonesty is !!!!

Again for the 17th time, if you have Scriptures which say...............
"THE PEOPLE CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE WILL THEN IN THE END OF THE AGE ACCEPT CHRIST AND THEN BE REMOVED FROM THE LAKE OF FIRE AND TAKEN TO HEAVEN".

POST THEM

Saint Steven said:

The message is clear - we were not sinners by choice. We were sinners by NATURE! We were BORN INTO this condition, simply because the first man, Adam, put us all into slavery to sin. We had nothing to say about it. We did not in any way will it, consent to it, or choose it, for we were born into it. And we were not born free moral agents. We were born slaves!

There is no fact more self-evident than the fact of the total depravity of man, or his TOTAL INABILITY to deliver himself from bondage to sin, and this is rooted in the fact that his human spirit is dead from birth. Total depravity means that man in his natural state is incapable of doing anything or desiring anything pleasing to God. Until our spirit is quickened by HIS SPIRIT we are slaves of the flesh and the devil and are enemies to God. When man insists that he still has a "spark" of divine good resident in his heart the Bible says, "The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked. Who can know it?" (Jer. 17:9). When man contends that he is a free moral agent and can accept or reject the Lord by his own volition, the Word of God contradicts him, declaring, "There is none righteous, no not one! There is none that understands, there is N-O-N-E THAT SEEKS after God" (Rom. 3:10-11).

Source: The Savior of the World, by J. Preston Eby
Kindgdom Bible Studies Savior of the World Series Part 1

Click to expand...

Good stuff and I agree completely with your post as IT IS BIBLICAL.

However.......
Not ONE word of your post speaks to the fact that ALL people who reject Jesus Christ while alive will then spend eternity in the Lake of Fire!!!

Major1 · Jul 13, 2020

Saint Steven said:
Our completely unshazzammed opponents ask for scriptures. And when we provide them they claim that none have been provided. Apparently if they disagree with something, like the Bible, it suddenly fails to exist. This is a great mystery.

I'm imagining one of these folks having a burning bush experience and asking God, "Can I have chapter and verse on that?" - lol

Again for the 17th time, if you have Scriptures which say...............
"THE PEOPLE CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE WILL THEN IN THE END OF THE AGE ACCEPT CHRIST AND THEN BE REMOVED FROM THE LAKE OF FIRE AND TAKEN TO HEAVEN".

And to answer your question........YES, if God spoke to anyone verbally today, the next question SHOULD be what book, what chapter and what verse.

If that is not the case then the words thought to be God's are simply your imagination.

Major1 · Jul 13, 2020

FineLinen said:
Dear comrad Saint Steve: One single expression of Abba is an alert to amazing unfolding of Him hiding from prying eyes.

I know a brother along the Colorado River who wrestled for long periods with these enunciations before his shazzam moment.

There is the need in every one of us who love the Lord, to press into the God of Glory. We must know for ourselves the spendour of the Father and the musterion secrets of His great heart.

Isn't it wonderful to have a tag team partner????

Major1 · Jul 13, 2020

Saint Steven said:
You are parroting Damnationist dogma. No surprise there. I was a Damnationist for most of my life. Been there, done that, left it behind. (good riddance)

The Bible does in fact support UR. And the Bible indicates that people did in fact have what you would call "a second chance" after death when Christ descended into the realm of the dead between his death and resurrection.

What do you make of this?

1 Timothy 4:10
That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God,
who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

You said in post #670........
"I have shown you TONS of scriptures yet you continue to claim there are "NO BIBLE SCRIPTURES to support such an idea." This strikes me as intellectually dishonest."

Steve, what is intellectually dishonest is what you just posted when you said..........
"And the Bible indicates that people did in fact have what you would call "a second chance" after death when Christ descended into the realm of the dead between his death and resurrection."

Now you did not post the Scriptures you mentioned. Is that because you do not know where your comment came from???? I will do it for you......

1 Peter 3:18-20 ....
"For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water."

NOW THE.......WHERE IN THOSE SCRIPTURES ARE THE WORDS YOU SAID WERE THERE........
"And the Bible indicates that people did in fact have what you would call "a second chance" after death when Christ descended into the realm of the dead between his death and resurrection."

WHERE ARE THEY STEVE???? Christ suffered, He paid the price for our sin, He died, He rose again, He preached to the lost in Torments in Sheol, who were disobedient and Noah was faithful and his family was saved.

WHERE ARE THE WORDS........
"And the Bible indicates that people did in fact have what you would call "a second chance" after death?

Now THAT my friend is intellectual dishonesty as all can see that THERE IS NOT ONE WORD THAT SUGGESTS A SECOND CHANCE AFTER DEAT!!!!

Again I say with all honest and conviction that, there is no where in the Bible that says the people in the Lake of Fire who do what you just said are then REMOVED FROM THE LAKE OF FIRE!!!!

Major1 · Jul 13, 2020

FineLinen said:
Follow the bouncing ball Big Fellow>>>

The polus who are "made sinners" are the identical polus "made righteous".

Every broken wreck of sin and despair!

What does that comment have to do with the wicked lost in the Lake of Fire being saved and removed from the LOF????????

Major1 · Jul 13, 2020

Saint Steven said:
You are parroting Damnationist dogma. No surprise there. I was a Damnationist for most of my life. Been there, done that, left it behind. (good riddance)

The Bible does in fact support UR. And the Bible indicates that people did in fact have what you would call "a second chance" after death when Christ descended into the realm of the dead between his death and resurrection.

In the coming age those who have not even had a FIRST CHANCE will be redeemed from death. Their price has already been paid.

What do you make of this?

1 Timothy 4:10
That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God,
who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

I make it literally as it is written WITHOUT ADDING MY OPINIONS TO IT.

These words, in 1 Timothy 4:10 like the assertion of 1Timothy 2:4, have been often pressed into the service of that school of kindly, but mistaken, interpreters, who ignore, or explain away, the plain doctrine of Holy Scripture which tells us there are those whose destruction from the presence of the Lord shall be everlasting, whose portion shall be the “second death” (2Thessalonians 1:9; Revelation 21:8).

These interpreters, Universalists, prefer to substitute in place of this terrible, but repeated declaration, their own perilous theories of universalism. Here the gracious words seem to affix a seal to the statement immediately preceding, which speaks of “the hope in the living God” as the source of all the labour and brave patience of the Lord’s true servants. The living God is also a loving God, the Saviour of all, if they would receive Him, and, undoubtedly, the Redeemer of those who accept His love and are faithful to His holy cause.
1 Timothy 4:10 Commentaries: For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.

I hope this will increase your understanding of that Scripture.

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