The Lake Of Fire

[FineLinen]

"I counsel you to buy of Me gold refined in the fire that you may become rich, and white robes to put on, so as to hide your shameful nakedness, and eye-salve to anoint your eyes with, so that you may be able to see."

This is the challenge to every member of the churches.

 

[Word and Spirit]

False doctrines are indeed contrary to the One who stands before us. They come out of broken mankind who cannot think straight as a result of sin.

Your question remains: what is your criteria for false doctrine?

Jude 1:4 is the major one.

 

[FineLinen]

Jude 1:4 is the major one.

The criterium for false doctrine =

1. Ungodly men (& women) written of prior unto condemnation.

2. These men & women have turned the grace of God into lasciviousness.

3. These men & women deny the Lord & ONLY Master.

"For there are certain men crept in privily, [even] they who were of old written of beforehand unto this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ."

lasciviousness =

• Lascivious desires or conduct; lewdness; wantonness; lustfulness; looseness of behavior.
• 
  
• Tendency to excite lust; lascivious or lewd character.
• 
  
• The state or habitual condition of feeling an excessive or morbid sexual desire.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

An illogical question because it assumes that "if" God does want to save everyone ergo ipso facto God will save everyone but that is not necessarily true.
Note this passage from Jeremiah. God said “I have caused to cleave” That word is הדבקתי/ha’dabaq’thi. It is in the perfect or completed sense. God’s express will, clearly stated, for the whole house of Israel and Judah, to cling to God as a belt clings to a man’s waist. It was done, finished, completed, in God’s sight, and, according to some arguments, nothing man can do will cause God’s will to not be done. But they, Israel and Judah, would not hear and obey, their will, vs. God’s will, So God destroyed them, vs. 14.
…..This passage very much speaks to God’s sovereign will, and man’s free will and agency. God stated very clearly what His will was, in terms that cannot be misunderstood. But, because the Israelites and Judeans would not hear, and obey, God destroyed them, instead of them being unto God, “for a people, and for a name, and for a praise, and for a glory, vs. 10.”

Jer 13:1 Thus saith the LORD unto me, Go and get thee a linen girdle, and put it upon thy loins, and put it not in water.
2 So I got a girdle according to the word of the LORD, and put it on my loins.
3 And the word of the LORD came unto me the second time, saying,
4 Take the girdle that thou hast got, which is upon thy loins, and arise, go to Euphrates, and hide it there in a hole of the rock.
5 So I went, and hid it by Euphrates, as the LORD commanded me.
6 And it came to pass after many days, that the LORD said unto me, Arise, go to Euphrates, and take the girdle from thence, which I commanded thee to hide there.
7 Then I went to Euphrates, and digged, and took the girdle from the place where I had hid it: and, behold, the girdle was marred, it was profitable for nothing.
8 Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
9 Thus saith the LORD, After this manner will I mar the pride of Judah, and the great pride of Jerusalem.
10 This evil people, which refuse to hear my words, which walk in the imagination of their heart, and walk after other gods, to serve them, and to worship them, shall even be as this girdle, which is good for nothing.
11 For as the girdle cleaveth to the loins of a man, so have I caused to cleave [הדבקתי/ha’dabaq’thi] unto me the whole house of Israel and the whole house of Judah, saith the LORD; that they might be unto me for a people, and for a name, and for a praise, and for a glory: but they would not hear.
· · ·
14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.​

Note, verse 14, God said He will NOT have pity, will NOT spare, and will NOT have mercy but destroy them.

Oh der Alte, always with the harsh OT stuff. Yes that's true, and it needs to be understood in the sense that the sinful parts of the individual will be destroyed in order to bring forth salvation. Otherwise, how could Moses and the Lamb's song in Revelation 15 be sung? It's a song of salvation of the nations, which is delivered in Rev 21:24-26 and in fulfilment of God's mighty everlasting oath to have all knees and tongues worship His righteousness.

I for one can't see how it can work out that way if He fries most of the knees and tongues. How can it?

 

[Major1]

And does God want to save everyone, first and foremost?

Do you really feel like there is a need to ask such a question???

You have read the Bible...right?

 

[Major1]

The criterium for false doctrine =

1. Ungodly men (& women) written of prior unto condemnation.

2. These men & women have turned the grace of God into lasciviousness.

3. These men & women deny the Lord & ONLY Master.

"For there are certain men crept in privily, [even] they who were of old written of beforehand unto this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ."

lasciviousness =

• Lascivious desires or conduct; lewdness; wantonness; lustfulness; looseness of behavior.
• 
  
• Tendency to excite lust; lascivious or lewd character.
• 
  
• The state or habitual condition of feeling an excessive or morbid sexual desire.

Matthew 7:13-23 ….....
“Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide, and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter by it. 14 “For the gate is small, and the way is narrow that leads to life, and few are those who find it. 15 “Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 “You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes, nor figs from thistles, are they? 17 “Even so, every good tree bears good fruit; but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 “A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19 “Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 “So then, you will know them by their fruits. 21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven. 22 “Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 “And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’”

False prophets are particularly dangerous because they appear to be genuine. They seemingly have the credentials of authority. What are these credentials? Jesus calls them ‘sheep’s clothing’ (verse 15).

 

[Major1]

Oh der Alte, always with the harsh OT stuff. Yes that's true, and it needs to be understood in the sense that the sinful parts of the individual will be destroyed in order to bring forth salvation. Otherwise, how could Moses and the Lamb's song in Revelation 15 be sung? It's a song of salvation of the nations, which is delivered in Rev 21:24-26 and in fulfilment of God's mighty everlasting oath to have all knees and tongues worship His righteousness.

I for one can't see how it can work out that way if He fries most of the knees and tongues. How can it?

So you do not accept the Old Test. as the Word of God...?

Here we see the reason why we disagree. You actually do not seem to understand the Scriptures so it has led you to false teachings of men and denominational teachings.

Rev. 15:3 is the actual "Song of Moses".

Now if you have the desire to learn the song of Moses you need to go to Exodus 15:1-21 or Deut. 32:1-43.

BOTH songs are about God's deliverance and salvation and faithfulness.

The book of the Revelation is "Christocentric". He is the Lord of the book.

In Rev. 15:2 where YOU did not speak of, we see the word "THEY". THEY are the ones who have overcome the Beast. THEY can sing the song of Moses because they have been saved and delivered.

Rev. 21:24-26 does NOT saw or imply that EVERYONE in the nations of the world will be found.

It means All the nations that are saved; or all the saved considered as nations. "The nations" are the redeemed, described in this way on account of their selection from every "kindred, and nation, and tribe, and tongue" (Revelation 7:9): not the wicked nations of Revelation 16:19.

 

[Major1]

The God of Glory is perfection with a capital P.

Again: what I am asking you are what your parameters are for determining false doctrine?

They are?

Reading your posts about how everyone in the end of time will be saved, even Satan and his demons.

THAT is the perfect determination of a false teaching because it eliminates all the other Scriptures which tell us that the wick lost will be tormented in the Lake of Fire forever and ever.

Basically, a false teaching is anything which adds to or takes away from the written Word of God and replaces it with the thoughts and opinions of men.

 

[Major1]

I never said there was anything false about God. Why are you accusing me? However, there are things false about what man makes up as a false doctrine. Do you not understand the difference?

He does. He is just focused on Universalism and cannot accept anything that is different.

 

[Major1]

And does God want to save everyone, first and foremost?

YES He does. That is why He allowed Jesus to pay for YOUR sin.

However...…only those who come to Chriost and have the salvation of God.

Do you reject John 3:16?
What About John 14:6.

Now what about Matthew 7:21-23.....
"Not everyone who says to me, 'LORD, LORD,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'LORD, LORD, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

What does "NOT EVERYONE" mean in your dictionary??????
What does "I never knew you, away from me" mean in your dictionary???

To make your theology work, those Scriptures and probably 100 more have to be removed from the Bible.

Is that OK with YOU?

 

[Der Alte]

Oh der Alte, always with the harsh OT stuff. Yes that's true, and it needs to be understood in the sense that the sinful parts of the individual will be destroyed in order to bring forth salvation. Otherwise, how could Moses and the Lamb's song in Revelation 15 be sung? It's a song of salvation of the nations, which is delivered in Rev 21:24-26 and in fulfilment of God's mighty everlasting oath to have all knees and tongues worship His righteousness.
I for one can't see how it can work out that way if He fries most of the knees and tongues. How can it?

Of course you can see how "it can work out" by twisting what scripture actually says. In Jer 13:9-14 which I quoted, where does God say "the sinful parts of the individual will be destroyed in order to bring forth salvation?" May I remind you this is what God said and what He meant in Jeremiah 13:14 "saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them."
As I have shown from scripture some of those knees bowing will be enemies of God, with Jesus' foot on their necks.
There are three verses which say every knee will bow but none of them say worship his righteousness."
Isaiah 45:23, Romans 14:11, Philippians 2:10

 

[FineLinen]

Reading your posts about how everyone in the end of time will be saved, even Satan and his demons.

Major: The fact is our God is the radical Source of the radical all. The word is in union with pas to the all of ta pavnte.

God is the Source, Guide & the Goal of ta pavnte.

 

[FineLinen]

Major: The fact is our God is the radical Source of the radical all. The word is in union with pas to the all of ta pavnte.

God is the Source, Guide & the Goal of ta pavnte.

We will again review the scope of the koine ta pavnte.

By these three prepositions Paul ascribes the universe (ta panta) with all the phenomena concerning creation, redemption, providence to God as the…

Ex= The Source

Di= The Agent

Eiv= The Goal

The Koine, ta pavnte, is the strongest word for all in the Scriptures; it literally means the all.

ta pavnte/ ta panta, “in the absolute sense of the whole of creation, the all things, the universe, and, everything in heaven and earth that is in need of uniting and redeeming.”

**It is not in the limited sense of “nearly all”, “pavnte” minus “ta”

The final preposition [eiv) reveals the ultimate goal of all that is. What has been provided in Christ is a re-turn, a re-storation, a re-newing, a re-demption, a re-concilation, a re-surrection, a re-stitution.

The prefix “re” means back again, again, anew–and all the words with this prefix speak of something that left its place and has now made its circuit and come back to the point of its beginning.

In the Christian story God descends to reascend. He comes down;… down to the very roots and sea-bed of the Nature He has created. But He goes down to come up again and bring the whole ruined world up with Him. -C.S. Lewis

 

[Major1]

Major: The fact is our God is the radical Source of the radical all. The word is in union with pas to the all of ta pavnte.

God is the Source, Guide & the Goal of ta pavnte.

Ta pavnte = in the absolute sense of the whole of creation, the universe. Of everything in heaven.

Why would you think that anyone would disagree with that????

Of course Jesus died for all but as I said before ALL are not going to accept Him as Savior. Man has free will and some will and some have rejected Him. I do not believe Jesus died for nothing, He died a horrible death so that we could be offered the free gift of salvation, unfortunately not everyone is going to accept Jesus.

Matthew 7:21-23...…..
"Not everyone who says to me, 'LORD, LORD,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'LORD, LORD, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

But your belief says everyone is going to Heaven regardless, so why did Jesus die on the cross if everyone was going to Heaven anyway?

 

[Major1]

We will again review the scope of the koine ta pavnte.

By these three prepositions Paul ascribes the universe (ta panta) with all the phenomena concerning creation, redemption, providence to God as the…

Ex= The Source

Di= The Agent

Eiv= The Goal

The Koine, ta pavnte, is the strongest word for all in the Scriptures; it literally means the all.

ta pavnte/ ta panta, “in the absolute sense of the whole of creation, the all things, the universe, and, everything in heaven and earth that is in need of uniting and redeeming.”

**It is not in the limited sense of “nearly all”, “pavnte” minus “ta”

The final preposition [eiv) reveals the ultimate goal of all that is. What has been provided in Christ is a re-turn, a re-storation, a re-newing, a re-demption, a re-concilation, a re-surrection, a re-stitution.

The prefix “re” means back again, again, anew–and all the words with this prefix speak of something that left its place and has now made its circuit and come back to the point of its beginning.

In the Christian story God descends to reascend. He comes down;… down to the very roots and sea-bed of the Nature He has created. But He goes down to come up again and bring the whole ruined world up with Him. -C.S. Lewis

C.S. Lewis is correct. Jesus will bring ALL who come to Him by faith.

The problem with what you believe is that it is all based on the manipulation amd meanings of WORDS.

In universalism, the word "eternal" means "without end" when it comes to salvation, but not when referring to damnation, even though the same word is used for both and in the same context (Matt. 25:46).

YOU divide history and the future into different "eons" or "ages" and assert that punishment is "age-lasting," not eternal.

The term "Son of God" is claimed by all groups as an accurate description of Jesus, yet to some, it means a created being, and to others, it means God in flesh.

Therefore, determining which belief is held by which universalist is often difficult and it requires digging which means your theology is based in DECEPTION.

My theology is based in the gospel of Jesus Christ without any manipulations, twistings or explination using words and phrases that no body cares about.

 

[Major1]

"I counsel you to buy of Me gold refined in the fire that you may become rich, and white robes to put on, so as to hide your shameful nakedness, and eye-salve to anoint your eyes with, so that you may be able to see."

This is the challenge to every member of the churches.

It is also the call of God to every man alive.

John 3:16...…..
"For God so loved the WORLD that He gave His only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER BELIEVES UPON HIM, with have eternal Life".

How is that so hard to understand??????

 

[FineLinen]

Ta pavnte = in the absolute sense of the whole of creation, the universe. Of everything in heaven.

Why would you think that anyone would disagree with that????

You do Major!

Yours is the god of limited.

The koine is clear, your limited horizon will of course not allow such scope for the God of UN & more.

ta pavnte/ ta panta, “in the absolute sense of the whole of creation, the all things, the universe, and, everything in heaven and earth that is in need of uniting and redeeming.”

 

[Der Alte]

C.S. Lewis is correct. Jesus will bring ALL who come to Him by faith.
The problem with what you believe is that it is all based on the manipulation amd meanings of WORDS.
In universalism, the word "eternal" means "without end" when it comes to salvation, but not when referring to damnation, even though the same word is used for both and in the same context (Matt. 25:46).
YOU divide history and the future into different "eons" or "ages" and assert that punishment is "age-lasting," not eternal.
The term "Son of God" is claimed by all groups as an accurate description of Jesus, yet to some, it means a created being, and to others, it means God in flesh.
Therefore, determining which belief is held by which universalist is often difficult and it requires digging which means your theology is based in DECEPTION.
My theology is based in the gospel of Jesus Christ without any manipulations, twistings or explination using words and phrases that no body cares about.

In the Greek NT the Greek word "aion" is an adjective.
UR-ites "translate" "aionios" as "age lasting," or "age during" I happened to notice the other day that "age" is a a noun and "lasting/during" is a verb. So to make scripture fit the UR narrative they have to change a single adjective into a noun and a verb.

 

[Major1]

In the Greek NT the Greek word "aion" is an adjective.
UR-ites "translate" "aion" as "age lasting," or "age during" I happened to notice the other day that "age" is a a noun and "lasting/during" is a verb. So to make scripture fit the UR narrative they have to change a single adjective into a noun and a verb.

They will and have changed anything and everything to fit their opinions.

 

[Major1]

We will again review the scope of the koine ta pavnte.

By these three prepositions Paul ascribes the universe (ta panta) with all the phenomena concerning creation, redemption, providence to God as the…

Ex= The Source

Di= The Agent

Eiv= The Goal

The Koine, ta pavnte, is the strongest word for all in the Scriptures; it literally means the all.

ta pavnte/ ta panta, “in the absolute sense of the whole of creation, the all things, the universe, and, everything in heaven and earth that is in need of uniting and redeeming.”

**It is not in the limited sense of “nearly all”, “pavnte” minus “ta”

The final preposition [eiv) reveals the ultimate goal of all that is. What has been provided in Christ is a re-turn, a re-storation, a re-newing, a re-demption, a re-concilation, a re-surrection, a re-stitution.

The prefix “re” means back again, again, anew–and all the words with this prefix speak of something that left its place and has now made its circuit and come back to the point of its beginning.

In the Christian story God descends to reascend. He comes down;… down to the very roots and sea-bed of the Nature He has created. But He goes down to come up again and bring the whole ruined world up with Him. -C.S. Lewis

You do remember saying that...….
"THERE ARE NO BIBLE SCRIPTURES WHICH SUPPORT THE UNIVERSALISTS THEOLOGY!!!! FINELINEN SAYS THAT THERE WILL BE NO SALVATION FROM ANYONE WHO IS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE".