The KJVO myth...

[trophy33]

Take the helmet of salvation, and the Sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God(the Bible): We wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. Ephesians 6

God is light, and in Him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth. 1John 1

Matthew 5:5 Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth

 

[Oseas]

Matthew 5:5 Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth

Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work. 2Timothy 2

 

[trophy33]

Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work. 2Timothy 2

Sure, you can depart, if you feel so. Nobody is forcing you to stay here.

But you cannot judge and attack others. Beware of fanatism.

 

[Oseas]

Sure, you can depart, if you feel so. Nobody is forcing you to stay here.

But you cannot judge and attack others. Beware of fanatism.

JESUS said: - Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come,
he will reprove the world of sin,
and of righteousness,
and of judgment:
Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is Judged.
John 16

 

[trophy33]

JESUS said: - Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come,
he will reprove the world of sin,
and of righteousness,
and of judgment:
Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is Judged.
John 16

Throwing random verses is useless.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I didn't throw a dart or go by feelings. I prayed and was lead with confirmations.

Again, we cannot just pray about this and have our own confirmations based on what we want to see as true. For I have heard people in other non-Christian religions say the same thing. One has to do an actual fruits test between the KJB and Modern Translations to determine the truth. But it just does not seem your are interested in seeking this kind of truth out.

What I am seeing from you though is that you're so steeped in your position that you do not believe that any other Bible is preserved. That is dangerous position to be in since you are essentially saying that God couldn't have lead me to a Bible other than the KJV. You are saying that God is wrong.

Not all Bibles say the same thing. Some Modern Bibles actually say things that are off morally and actually waters down precious truths we hold dear in the faith. Some Modern Bibles have the devil’s name in them where they should not belong. The list goes on and on, and on…. And on and on, etc.

I have no issues with people reading the KJV if they choose to do so, even making that their only Bible. What I take issue with is those that say only the KJV is the final authority or that if you are reading g any other version other then KJV, you a sinning or whatever drivel they can come up with. For that only comes from the pits of hell to cause division and strife.

Uh, I don’t believe a Christian is sinning if they feel convicted to use a particular translation that it is not the King James Bible. I do believe that there is a chance that it can effect their growth in the Lord, though. I also believe the King James Bible is a final Word of authority, but that does not mean we cannot use Modern Translations to compare it by. I believe there can be only one Word of God and not many. For God is not the author of confusion.
For if you have a Christian Bible study group and have them all read from a particular passage with them each having a different translation with them all reading at the same time, you are going to hear confusion. Yet, we know… God is not the author of confusion.

 

[Oseas]

Throwing random verses is useless.

I do not know word more powerful than the Word of GOD. The Word is GOD, understand? But you say the Word is useless, or good for nothing, well ...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Please, do.

A Trail of Evidence:

We find mention of 1 John 5:7, from about 200 AD through the 1500s. Here is a useful timeline of references to this verse:

200 AD Tertullian wrote "which three are one" based on the verse in his Against Praxeas, chapter 25.
250 AD Cyprian of Carthage, wrote, "And again, of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost it is written: "And the three are One" in his On The Lapsed, On the Novatians, (see note for Old Latin)
350 AD Priscillian referred to it [Corpus Scriptorum Ecclesiasticorum Latinorum, Academia Litterarum Vindobonensis, vol. xviii, p. 6.]
350 AD Idacius Clarus referred to it [Patrilogiae Cursus Completus, Series Latina by Migne, vol. 62, col. 359.]
350 AD Athanasius referred to it in his De Incarnatione
398 AD Aurelius Augustine used it to defend Trinitarianism in De Trinitate against the heresy of Sabellianism
415 AD Council of Carthage appealed to 1 John 5:7 when debating the Arian belief (Arians didn't believe in the deity of Jesus Christ)
450-530 AD Several orthodox African writers quoted the verse when defending the doctrine of the Trinity against the gainsaying of the Vandals. These writers are:
A) Vigilius Tapensis in "Three Witnesses in Heaven"
B) Victor Vitensis in his Historia persecutionis [Corpus Scriptorum Ecclesiasticorum Latinorum, Academia Litterarum Vindobonensis, vol. vii, p. 60.]
C) Fulgentius in "The Three Heavenly Witnesses" [Patrilogiae Cursus Completus, Series Latina by Migne, vol. 65, col. 500.]
500 AD Cassiodorus cited it [Patrilogiae Cursus Completus, Series Latina by Migne, vol. 70, col. 1373.]
550 AD Old Latin ms r has it
550 AD The "Speculum" has it [The Speculum is a treatise that contains some good Old Latin scriptures.]
750 AD Wianburgensis referred to it
800 AD Jerome's Vulgate has it [It was not in Jerome's original Vulgate, but was brought in about 800 AD from good Old Latin manuscripts.]
1000s AD miniscule 635 has it
1150 AD minuscule ms 88 in the margin
1300s AD miniscule 629 has it
157-1400 AD Waldensian (that is, Vaudois) Bibles have the verse
1500 AD ms 61 has the verse
Even Nestle's 26th edition Greek New Testament, based upon the corrupt Alexandrian text, admits that these and other important manuscripts have the verse: 221 v.l.; 2318 Vulgate [Claromontanus]; 629; 61; 88; 429 v.l.; 636 v.l.; 918; l; r.

Source Used:
Is is true that 1 John 5:7 was not in any Greek manuscripts before the 1600s?

Which old manuscript has the KJV reading in it? Why was it not used in discussions with arianism?

Where is your evidence it was removed, instead of added later?

It is based off a logical deduction from a systematic attack against God’s Word over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over again. The coincidences just stop being coincidences at some point and show that God is either in favor of the KJB being the pure Word, or being the most pure out of the Bible’s we have today. For if we compare the KJB vs. Modern Translations we will discover that the changes overall is systematically for the worse and not for the better in Modern Translations.

 

[trophy33]

A Trail of Evidence:

We find mention of 1 John 5:7, from about 200 AD through the 1500s. Here is a useful timeline of references to this verse:

200 AD Tertullian wrote "which three are one" based on the verse in his Against Praxeas, chapter 25.
250 AD Cyprian of Carthage, wrote, "And again, of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost it is written: "And the three are One" in his On The Lapsed, On the Novatians, (see note for Old Latin)
350 AD Priscillian referred to it [Corpus Scriptorum Ecclesiasticorum Latinorum, Academia Litterarum Vindobonensis, vol. xviii, p. 6.]
350 AD Idacius Clarus referred to it [Patrilogiae Cursus Completus, Series Latina by Migne, vol. 62, col. 359.]
350 AD Athanasius referred to it in his De Incarnatione
398 AD Aurelius Augustine used it to defend Trinitarianism in De Trinitate against the heresy of Sabellianism
415 AD Council of Carthage appealed to 1 John 5:7 when debating the Arian belief (Arians didn't believe in the deity of Jesus Christ)
450-530 AD Several orthodox African writers quoted the verse when defending the doctrine of the Trinity against the gainsaying of the Vandals. These writers are:
A) Vigilius Tapensis in "Three Witnesses in Heaven"
B) Victor Vitensis in his Historia persecutionis [Corpus Scriptorum Ecclesiasticorum Latinorum, Academia Litterarum Vindobonensis, vol. vii, p. 60.]
C) Fulgentius in "The Three Heavenly Witnesses" [Patrilogiae Cursus Completus, Series Latina by Migne, vol. 65, col. 500.]
500 AD Cassiodorus cited it [Patrilogiae Cursus Completus, Series Latina by Migne, vol. 70, col. 1373.]
550 AD Old Latin ms r has it
550 AD The "Speculum" has it [The Speculum is a treatise that contains some good Old Latin scriptures.]
750 AD Wianburgensis referred to it
800 AD Jerome's Vulgate has it [It was not in Jerome's original Vulgate, but was brought in about 800 AD from good Old Latin manuscripts.]
1000s AD miniscule 635 has it
1150 AD minuscule ms 88 in the margin
1300s AD miniscule 629 has it
157-1400 AD Waldensian (that is, Vaudois) Bibles have the verse
1500 AD ms 61 has the verse
Even Nestle's 26th edition Greek New Testament, based upon the corrupt Alexandrian text, admits that these and other important manuscripts have the verse: 221 v.l.; 2318 Vulgate [Claromontanus]; 629; 61; 88; 429 v.l.; 636 v.l.; 918; l; r.

Source Used:
Is is true that 1 John 5:7 was not in any Greek manuscripts before the 1600s?



It is based off a logical deduction from a systematic attack against God’s Word over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over again. The coincidences just stop being coincidences at some point and show that God is either in favor of the KJB being the pure Word, or being the most pure out of the Bible’s we have today. For if we compare the KJB vs. Modern Translations we will discover that the changes overall is systematically for the worse and not for the better in Modern Translations.

I think you misunderstood the question.

The NIV reading:
For there are three that testify: the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.

The KJV reading:
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

What old and not falsified manuscripts have the KJV reading, the longer, liturgically polished one? If none, then it was not removed, but was added later, to make it look more explicit than before.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The problem is that if I were to believe the OAO camp (Original Autograph Only Believers), I probably would not be a believer in Jesus Christ today. My faith would mostly likely be ruined. For if God cannot get His Word correct, what makes me determine some words are truth vs. others being false? I don’t have that kind of authority. Only God has the kind of authority to determine what is true or not true in His own Word. What God requires of me is faith to believe in His Word (See: Romans 10:17). Seeing not all Bibles say the same thing, I have to choose for me what I believe is the most pure Word of God. In my discovery and investigation that is the KJB (King James Bible).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I think you misunderstood the question.

The NIV reading:
For there are three that testify: the a Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.

The KJV reading:
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

What old and not falsified manuscripts have the KJV reading? If none, that it was not removed, but was later added.

Again, things are not as we wish them to be. Something can be true and we can discover that in different ways and not in the way that we prefer or expect to see. We put together the clues based on what Scriptures says. Like 2 Timothy 3:16-17 in how it says that all Scripture is profitable for doctrine, and we know the Trinity is an essential doctrine of the Christian faith. God tells us to earnestly contend for the faith (Jude 1:3). How do we defend the faith involving the Trinity against heretical groups if God did not place any clear verses for us to actually defend the Trinity? Think. We are in a spiritual battle or war. Don’t you actually think the devil is trying to distort and water down the beautiful truths of God’s Word?

Also, as I said before. It’s a systematic approach of looking at the KJB vs. Modern Translations with an open mind and considering for a moment (as silly as it may sound) that the KJB could be close to the truth. Why? Because if one is honest with themselves in comparing the the KJB vs. Modern Translations they will see that the changes are for the worse and not for the better. So it’s a pattern of evidence and not just any one verse that makes the case for the KJB being the pure Word. That’s what you do not appear to get. You want things to fit into your neat little box of how things should work if the KJB was the true Word of God. A light is not going to be shining down from the sky on a KJB to tell you. You have to do your own homework and be open. If not, then your never going to see it. You will speak in a way that keeps you safe and comfortable in your own world view.

 

[trophy33]

Again, things are not as we wish them to be. Something can be true and we can discover that in different ways and not in the way that we prefer or expect to see. We put together the clues based on what Scriptures says. Like 2 Timothy 3:16-17 in how it says that all Scripture is profitable for doctrine, and we know the Trinity is an essential doctrine of the Christian faith. God tells us to earnestly contend for the faith (Jude 1:3). How do we defend the faith involving the Trinity against heretical groups if God did not place any clear verses for us to actually defend the Trinity? Think. We are in a spiritual battle or war. Don’t you actually think the devil is trying to distort and water down the beautiful truths of God’s Word?

Also, as I said before. It’s a systematic approach of looking at the KJB vs. Modern Translations with an open mind and considering for a moment (as silly as it may sound) that the KJB could be close to the truth. Why? Because if one is honest with themselves in comparing the the KJB vs. Modern Translations they will see that the changes are for the worse and not for the better. So it’s a pattern of evidence and not just any one verse that makes the case for the KJB being the pure Word. That’s what you do not appear to get. You want things to fit into your neat little box of how things should work if the KJB was the true Word of God. A light is not going to be shining down from the sky on a KJB to tell you. You have to do your own homework and be open. If not, then your never going to see it. You will speak in a way that keeps you safe and comfortable in your own world view.

You said that something was removed from the modern Bibles.

It was the first of your long chain of presuppositions why the KJV is better. But it seems you cannot prove even the first one, so it does not look too good for your case.

If it has not been in the Greek text, then it was not removed, but your KJV added it. Therefore, its the KJV that should be corrected.

 

[Isilwen]

Again, we cannot just pray about this and have our own confirmations based on what we want to see as true.

They were not my own confirmations. Confirmations from other people given to them by God.

Not responding to the rest as it's irrelevant when it was God who lead me to this Bible.

 

[Isilwen]

It’s a systematic approach of looking at the KJB vs. Modern Translations with an open mind and considering for a moment (as silly as it may sound) that the KJB could be close to the truth.

I contend that this is a false equivalency as you are comparing a translation to a translation.

 

[Bob_1000]

So how is it possible for KJB only Christians (like myself) to be able to criticize the Modern Translations? Do you not do the same? Do you not look for the mistakes in Modern Translations by comparison to the KJB? Do you not have to read Modern Translations in order to do that? If such is as you say…. All your KJB Only brethren have been leavened.

Also, Jesus ate with tax collectors and sinners. Was he not doing so to evangelize them? But you could say… a little leaven… leaven’s the whole lump. So I don’t think the analogy works always in every example. Anyways, this phrase in Scripture can be seen in 1 Corinthians 5:6. It is saying that the brethren were glorying (and how it was not good) when a Christian among them was sleeping around in the church. It’s not talking about comparing manuscripts or different translations. Paul was telling the Corinthian church to kick out this person out of the church or away from their fellowship. But Paul was not saying that they should hide in caves away from this sinful world whereby they could not evangelize them. For Paul says,

“Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.” (1 Corinthians 5:10).

I don't read false bibles to find errors, I know about the errors because I used to read them as a young Christian. So no I don't read false bibles to find errors.

You're missing my point on the leaven. The lump is our understanding of scripture by reading scripture. False bibles add leaven to that understanding which ultimately leads to a total misunderstanding of scripture. Jesus eating with tax collectors is no comparison to what I'm taking about.

 

[robycop3]

But KJVO is your main biblical version, printed exclusively and specifically for myth preachers like you, and everyone like you. The readers of topic can see that according your Ministry you have that Bible to preach myth only. True believers don't stumble over Biblical Versions. True believers don't get tangled up with Bible Versions. They have the gift of discernment of spirit.

Sir, I have no idea what you're talking about. There's no such thing as a "KJVO Bible version" unless it's the KJV, which I don't use.

My calling from God, besides the usual Christian duties of witnessing, etc. is to work against false doctrines. And KJVO is as false as they come, so I work against it, same as I do preterism, "word/faith", oneness/modalism, & other junk. Now, please stick to the subject of this thread. If you're KJVO, try to support it. If you're not, side with me. Otherwise, you're just blowing smoke.

 

[Bob_1000]

Of course, long as it's accurate.

Then how can you say there is no pure inerrant word of God today when we are told to study the word of truth, the word of God, to show that we're approved by God to be a good workman for his kingdom? Do you believe this verse is not accurate? Or maybe you believe this only applies to people who had access to the original writings?

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I don't read false bibles to find errors, I know about the errors because I used to read them as a young Christian. So no I don't read false bibles to find errors.

You're missing my point on the leaven. The lump is our understanding of scripture by reading scripture. False bibles add leaven to that understanding which ultimately leads to a total misunderstanding of scripture. Jesus eating with tax collectors is no comparison to what I'm taking about.

I have been doing a study on all the archaic words in the KJB, and at times I struggled on occasion for the best meaning with trying to update the words to sound like how we speak today with the Webster’s Dictionary and other sources. But when I checked a modern translation, it was helpful. It was not as if I was going to replace the Word of God or the KJB. It is for my own personal study and understanding.

I am really good with English but I needed help with certain words or phrases when other sources did not pan out.

So my point here is that I found certain phrases or words to be challenging to understand. So Modern Translations have helped me on this study just as the Webster dictionary was helpful. I will give you examples in my next post (Lord willing). This will help you to see it is no different than using a dictionary. Are you against dictionaries (because the world uses them)?

In either case, I don’t believe your quote of Scripture applies to my situation. I am not in any tempted to side with Modern Translations over what the KJB says. I believe the Modern Translations are tainted. So I am very careful in what they say. You can disagree all you like and quote Scripture out of context, but my conscience is clear on this matter with the Word of God. You can believe as you wish.

 

[Oseas]

Sir, I have no idea what you're talking about. There's no such thing as a "KJVO Bible version" unless it's the KJV, which I don't use.

My calling from God, besides the usual Christian duties of witnessing, etc. is to work against false doctrines. And KJVO is as false as they come, so I work against it, same as I do preterism, "word/faith", oneness/modalism, & other junk. Now, please stick to the subject of this thread. If you're KJVO, try to support it. If you're not, side with me. Otherwise, you're just blowing smoke.

You and your Ministry of myths are Judged by the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD, understand?

JESUS said: - Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come,
he will reprove the world of sin,
and of righteousness,
and of judgment:
Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of Judgment, because the prince of this world is Judged.
John 16 - KJV

Furthermore, the Judgment shall sit, and the Kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom UNDER the whole HEAVEN, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, understand? Whose Kingdom is an everlasting Kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him. Yeah, the Judgment shall sit, and to the saints of the Most High shall be given the dominion,
to consume and to destroy unto the end.

The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD (of this Devil's world) are become the kingdoms of the Lord, and He will reign for ever and ever.
And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end-says the Lord-, to him will I give power over the nations:
And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
Daniel 7 combined with Revelation chap.11 and 2 KJV (Quoted from Biblegateway-this is my source in English language)

THE WORD IS GOD

 

[Bob_1000]

I have been doing a study on all the archaic words in the KJB, and at times I struggled on occasion for the best meaning with trying to update the words to sound like how we speak today with the Webster’s Dictionary and other sources. But when I checked a modern translation, it was helpful. It was not as if I was going to replace the Word of God or the KJB. It is for my own personal study and understanding.

I am really good with English but I needed help with certain words or phrases when other sources did not pan out.

So my point here is that I found certain phrases or words to be challenging to understand. So Modern Translations have helped me on this study just as the Webster dictionary was helpful. I will give you examples in my next post (Lord willing). This will help you to see it is no different than using a dictionary. Are you against dictionaries?

No I'm not against dictionaries but I do recommend letting the bible be it's own dictionary. I would like, if you don't mind, to illustrate the importance of believing every single word in the bible EXACTLY as it's written using these 2 verses.

Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

If you go to another version to understand what "raise it up" means then you will completely miss all the theology and doctrine taught in just those two verse. So to prove my point that every single word matters, can you tell me what is the "IT" that gets raised in verse 39? And who is "him" that gets raised up in verse 40?

If you're a futurist it will completely nullify your whole end times view which it should because the futurist view is the wrong view.