The kingdom of heaven

5thKingdom · Jun 21, 2020

Dougg
You said
In Revelation 13:
first beast
as man - 8th king of Revelation 17:11
as a kingdom - the end times Roman Empire
second beast - the false prophet

Let me ask you this:

What do the Four Beasts of Daniel 7 represent?

First Beast = ?
Second Beast = ?
Third Beast = ?
Fourth Beast = ?

/

Dave L · Jun 21, 2020

shilohsfoal said:
Isaiah 14:13 You said in your heart: "I will ascend to the heavens; I will raise my throne above the stars of God. I will sit on the mount of assembly, in the far reaches of the north.

When does your flight depart Dave?

You are adding meaning to scripture it does not support.

Douggg · Jun 21, 2020

5thKingdom said:
Dougg
You said
In Revelation 13:
first beast
as man - 8th king of Revelation 17:11
as a kingdom - the end times Roman Empire
second beast - the false prophet

Let me ask you this:

What do the Four Beasts of Daniel 7 represent?

First Beast = ?
Second Beast = ?
Third Beast = ?
Fourth Beast = ?

/

First Beast = Babylonian empire
Second Beast = Medes/Persians
Third Beast = Greek
Fourth Beast = Roman Empire

However, the angel (assumed) when explaining referred to them as four kings as well.
17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.

23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

Douggg · Jun 21, 2020

5thKingdom said:
I said that JESUS specifically NAMED four "Kingdoms of Heaven"

You are the one naming them not Jesus.

The parable of wedding in Matthew 22 is about the Jews rejecting the Kingdom of Heaven, and that generation killed off because it, and the Kingdom of Heaven offered to others instead.

The parable of the wedding honeymoon in Matthew 25 of the ten virgins is about rapture, some being ready and others not, to be taken to the Kingdom of Heaven.

It is not about multiple Kingdoms of Heaven.

5thKingdom · Jun 21, 2020

Douggg said:
First Beast = Babylonian empire
Second Beast = Medes/Persians
Third Beast = Greek
Fourth Beast = Roman Empire

Just as I expected.

Now take a look at the END of the Fourth Beast (you say Rome)

Dan 7:11
I beheld then because of the voice of the great words
which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain,
and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

Dan 7:12
As concerning the rest of the beasts, [Babylonian people,
Persian people and Greek people] they had their dominion taken
away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

Now that passage is the SAME EVENT as Rev 19:20

Rev 19:20
And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that
wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that
had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning
with brimstone.

The "Burning Flame" of Daniel 7:11-12 is the SAME place
as the "Lake of Fire" in Rev 19:20... you didn't REALLY
think this important EVENT was only recorded in one verse...
did you?

So WHAT do you do with the following verse?
Do you actually preach there are people living on earth
for a period called the "Season and Time" after all the people
in the Roman Empire are "given to the Burning Flame"?

Do you NOT REALIZE the saints have understood
Daniel's Fourth Beast = Revelation Beast?
We have known this since around 1200AD

Do you actually PREACH the Babylonian Empire
and the Persian Empire and the Greek Empire all
continue for a "Season and Time" AFTER the
people in the Roman Empire are cast into
the "Burning Flame" or "Lake of Fire"?

Is THAT what you are preaching (certainly not)
but that is what your answer implies..
if ROME is destroyed in the "flame" and yet
the other Kingdoms exist on earth for another
"Season and Time"

Here is the Biblical Truth about the FULFILLMENT
of Daniel's prophecies which the Bible PROMISED
would remain "sealed" to all saints until the Last.

Pre-Flood Kingdom
Jewish "Kingdom of Heaven" Jesus NAMED [Mat 2:2]
Christian "Kingdom of Heaven" Jesus NAMED [Mat 13]
Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven" Jesus NAMED [Mat 5:1]
Eternal "Kingdom of Heaven" that Jesus NAMED [Mat 5, 7, 8, 19]

Which means your interpretation of Babylon,
Persia, Greece and Rome could NEVER be True
because that theory was developed 700+ yrs ago
during the time that the Bible PROMISED the TRUTH
would remained "closed-up?" and "sealed".

Your theory has already been shown to contradict
Daniel 12:8-11 (as well as Dan 7:11-12 and Rev 19:20)
So your theory has already been proven wrong by the Bible.

What will you do?
Will you change your gospel to harmonize with SCRIPTURE or
Will you REJECT and intentionally IGNORE the verses posted above?

/

Douggg · Jun 21, 2020

5thKingdom said:
So WHAT do you do with the following verse?
Do you actually preach there are people living on earth
for a period called the "Season and Time" after all the people
in the Roman Empire are "given to the Burning Flame"?

The three beasts, allowed to continue for a season and a time is just talking about the end times nations, that once were the territories of the three ancient empires. Those nations will be ruled by Jesus with a rod of iron. Their dominion taken away.

The "season and time" just means a set time. The set time is the 1000 year millennium.

Then the great white throne judgment, the tares burnt up, followed by the new heaven and new earth.

The fourth fearsome beast, the Roman Empire of the end times, the EU the union of European nations, as a union, will not be allowed to continue into the millennium.

When Jesus returns there is not going be any more form of the Roman Empire ever again.

Tone · Jun 21, 2020

"agree to give their Kingdom to the Beast"
https://www.5thkingdomofheaven.com/chapter-8

So, how was this done? By agreeing to the latter rain doctrine? Was Harold Camping the first to come up with the concept of the church age being over with?

Tone · Jun 21, 2020

5thKingdom said:
Those in Catholic
churches did not SEE the event happening and those in apostate
Protestant churches did not either.

So, where were you at the time? What was it 2011? I was in prison.

Tone · Jun 21, 2020

"went forth"
https://www.5thkingdomofheaven.com/chapter-8

Where have you went forth to...what is your "church"?

Tone · Jun 21, 2020

5thKingdom said:
It is this Eighth King that made everyone (living in the
4th Kingdom) worship the "image" of the First Beast.
It was this Eighth King that caused everyone (in the
4th Beast) to take the "Mark of the Beast".

What is the image of the first beast that Harold Camping had those effected saints worship and what is the mark? Thank you.

Tone · Jun 21, 2020

5thKingdom said:
Man are you dense.
I NEVER said Jesus spoke of plural kingdoms.
That is you building a STRAWMAN

I said that JESUS specifically NAMED four "Kingdoms of Heaven"

And I said you continue to INTENTIONALLY IGNORE
what people were included in the "Kingdom of Heaven"

JESUS specifically NAMED in Matthew 22:2 (the Jewish people)
JESUS specifically NAMED in Mat 25:1 (Great Tribulation people)

-------------

In Mat 22:2 Jesus specifically NAMED the Jewish
"Kingdom of Heaven".

In Mat 13 (in 8 verses) Jesus specifically NAMES
the Christian "Kingdom of Heaven".

In Mat 25:1 Jesus specifically NAMES the
Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven"

Now, I realize this is NEW INFORMATION to most
but please TEST this by seeing who the CONTEXT
of each of these passages represents...
WHO is the subject of the passage?

In Matthew 22:2 it is the Jewish Kingdom
In Matthew 13 it is the Christian Kingdom
In Matthew 25:1-13 it's the Great Tribulation Kingdom

And, of course, Jesus specifically NAMES the
Eternal "Kingdom of Heaven" in Matthew chapters
5 and 7 and 8 and 19.

While the previous "Kingdoms of Heaven" were
(1) temporal
(2) contained BOTH saved and unsaved

The (5th) Eternal "Kingdom of Heaven" is not temporal
and contains saints from EACH of the previous Kingdoms.
Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are included [Mat 8:11] when
they were NOT included in the Christian Kingdom or the
Great Tribulation Kingdom.

/

A King and his son is the Jewish?

A Sower is the Christian?

10 virgins are the Great Tribulation?

A Wedding Feast is the Eternal Kingdom of Elohim?

Kingdom?

Tone · Jun 21, 2020

@5thKingdom

Will you direct me to a statement of faith?

keras · Jun 21, 2020

5thKingdom said:
How can you be so wrong so often?

I ask; How can you jump to wrong conclusions so often?

But it is obviously useless to argue with you, having written so much of your interpretations of the Prophetic Word, you are not likely to change anything.
The world is on the edge of great events, all we Christians really need right now, is to stand strong in our faith, whatever happens. The great test by fire, 1 Peter 4:12, is coming. The Lord is looking for those who will trust in His protection. Isaiah 41:13

5thKingdom · Jun 21, 2020

Douggg said:
The fourth fearsome beast, the Roman Empire of the end times,
the EU the union of European nations, as a union, will not be allowed
to continue into the millennium.

-------------

First... you said the Four Beasts represented (1) the Babylonian
Empire and (2) the Persian Empire and (3) the Greek Empire
and (4) the Roman Empire.

NOW YOU SAY the first three Beasts are talking about
(and I quote) "end-time nations". Which is it Dougg?
You cannot have it BOTH ways.

You said
The three beasts, allowed to continue for a season and a time is just talking about the end times nations,

-----------------

(2) Secondly, you are saying PEOPLE from the Babylonian
Empire and the PEOPLE from the Persian Empire and the
PEOPLE from the Greek Empire are allowed to continue to
live on earth for a 1000 years AFTER the PEOPLE from
the Roman Empire are cast into the "Burning Flame" and/or
the "Lake of Fire".

So... you are preached that there are PEOPLE living
on earth for 1000 years AFTER the Fourth Beast was
cast into the Lake of Fire?
Really?

Rev 19:20
And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet
that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them
that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped
his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning
with brimstone.

--------------

(3) Thirdly, just HOW MANY times does the Lord Return?
According to YOU the Lord Returns to cast the PEOPLE living
in the Roman Empire into the "Lake-of-Fire" for 1000 years...
is that BEFORE or AFTER the resurrection of the dead and
the Last Saints being "changed in a twinkling of an eye"?

1Th 4:15-18
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we
which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not
prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend
from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with
the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we
which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them
in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be
with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

It seems like you have the Lord Returning TWO TIMES

(1) First BEFORE the 1000 yrs.. as the Fourth Beast is
cast alive into the "Burning Flame" or the "Lake-of-Fire"

(2) Secondly AFTER the 1000 years [1Thess 4:15-18]
when the resurrection occurs and the Last Saints are "changed"

How many times does the Lord Return?
And WHEN is the resurrection of the dead...
during His FIRST RETURN or during His SECOND RETURN?

And WHEN is Satan and Death cast into the "Lake-of-Fire"?
After His FIRST RETURN or after His SECOND RETURN?

/

5thKingdom · Jun 21, 2020

keras said:
all we Christians really need right now, is to stand strong in our faith, whatever happens. The great test by fire, 1 Peter 4:12, is coming. The Lord is looking for those who will trust in His protection. Isaiah 41:13

(1) The FACT is the Bible PROMISES the Last Saints
"shall understand" Daniel's prophecies for the first time in
history and the Last Saints "shall see" the fulfillment of ALL
Great Tribulation prophecies and these same Last Saints shall
"prophecy again" about all of these mysteries as the
Seventh Trumpet "begins to sound"....

Has this happened yet? When does this happen?

-------

(2) What makes you think (and I quote)
"all we Christians really need right now is to stand strong
in our faith"

Since the BIBLE tells us that "Christians" are either
(1) saved "wheat/sheep" in the church, sown by God or
(2) unsaved "tares/goats" in the church, sown by Satan

Since Group (#2) are preaching heresies...
The logical question is WHICH "Christians" are you
talking about? Group '(#1) or Group (#2)?

Gal 5:19-21
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these;
Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry,
witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions,
heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such
like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in
time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit
the kingdom of God.

/

5thKingdom · Jun 21, 2020

Douggg said:
You are the one naming them not Jesus.

--------------

OK.. you think it was ME (not Jesus) who said the following:

(1) About the Jewish Kingdom..
or do you THINK this applies to the ETERNAL Kingdom?

Mat 22:2
The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king,
which made a marriage for his son,

(2) About the Christian Kingdom:
or do you THINK this applies to the ETERNAL Kingdom?

Mat 13:24
Another parable put he forth unto them, saying,
The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed
good seed in his field:

Mat 13:31
Another parable put he forth unto them, saying,
The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed,
which a man took, and sowed in his field:

Mat 13:33
Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven
is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures
of meal, till the whole was leavened.

Mat 13:44
Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field;
the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof
goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.

Mat 13:45
Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man,
seeking goodly pearls:

Mat 13:47
Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast
into the sea, and gathered of every kind:

(3) About the Great Tribulation Kingdom:

Mat 25:1-2
Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins,
which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
Mat 25:2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.

Dougg... please notice that the Great Tribulation
"Kingdom of Heaven" could NOT be talking about
the Christian "Kingdom of Heaven" because the Christian
saints NEVER refused to preach the Gospel of salvation and
send people off to some other (unnamed group) for salvation:
(but that DID happen during the Great Tribulation)

Mat 25:8-9
And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil;
for our lamps are gone out. But the wise answered, saying,
Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye
rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.

/

keras · Jun 21, 2020

5thKingdom said:
(1) The FACT is the Bible PROMISES the Last Saints
"shall understand" Daniel's prophecies for the first time in
history and the Last Saints "shall see" the fulfillment of ALL
Great Tribulation prophecies and these same Last Saints shall
"prophecy again" about all of these mysteries as the
Seventh Trumpet "begins to sound"....

Has this happened yet? When does this happen?

You are an example that the understanding of the Prophetic Word, is not yet given. Isaiah 35:4-5, Matthew 11:25

5thKingdom said:
(2) What makes you think (and I quote)
"all we Christians really need right now is to stand strong
in our faith"

Since the BIBLE tells us that "Christians" are either
(1) saved "wheat/sheep" in the church, sown by God or
(2) unsaved "tares/goats" in the church, sown by Satan

But you know as well as I do, that Christians can and do fall from their faith.
The sad thing is that when the Lord does take action on His Day of fiery wrath, a lot of those Christians who have false beliefs, such as the 'rapture to heaven', will renounce God for not doing what they thought He would.

5thKingdom · Jun 21, 2020

Tone said:
"agree to give their Kingdom to the Beast"
https://www.5thkingdomofheaven.com/chapter-8
So, how was this done? By agreeing to the latter rain doctrine? Was Harold Camping the first to come up with the concept of the church age being over with?

By (1) following the False Prophet and (2) helping him to
"pollute the Sanctuary" (the Body) while preaching His Gospel.
Which was the Abomination of Desolation. His Gospel declared
that God would do nothing without telling His saints... so, if you
rejected his gospel you were showing that you were NOT one of
the elect. (3) Yes, preaching the Latter Rain gospel was a "sign"
of following the Beast.

Amo 3:6-7
Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid?
shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?
Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret
unto his servants the prophets.

/

5thKingdom · Jun 21, 2020

keras said:
You are an example that the understanding of the Prophetic Word, is not yet given. Isaiah 35:4-5, Matthew 11:25

-----

But Isaiah 35:4-5 was ALREADY FULFILLED by the Last Saints
when they say the great "falling away" happen during the
Fourth "Kingdom of Heaven"

But Matthew 11:25 was ALREADY FULFILLED by the Last Saints
as we "shall understand" all the Biblical mysteries "closed-up"
and "sealed" to Saints in the Jewish "Kingdom of Heaven"
and in the Christian "Kingdom of Heaven"

These "mysteries" were shown to the Last Saints (also mysteries
from the "open book" just BEFORE we were commanded to
"prophesy again" as the Seventh Trumpet "begins to sound".
Fulfillment of these prophecies are happening NOW.

The Last Saints are NOW preaching about the Four separate
"Kingdoms of Heaven" before the Lord Returns and about
the fulfillment of Great Tribulation prophecies and about the
"Mystery of Babylon the Great" and about the four "watches"
of the Great Tribulation... and about the NAME of the Antii-Christ
and a host of other "mysteries" which have NEVER been known
to previous saints.... you know ALL THE STUFF I wrote to you
that you were too busy to read.

----------

You said:
But you know as well as I do, that Christians can and do fall
from their faith.

But you intentionally CONFLATE two different subjects.
The subject we are talking about is NOT saints falling into sin.
Instead it is about Christians being EITHER:

(1) saved "wheat/sheep" in the church sown by God
(2) unsaved "tare/goats" in the church sown by Satan

Please do not intentionally CONFLATE subjects in order to
not have to ACCOUNT for the fact that MANY (if not most)
of the people calling themselves "Christian" are really just
unsaved "tares" sown by Satan (children of Satan)

/

5thKingdom · Jun 21, 2020

Tone said:
So, where were you at the time? What was it 2011? I was in prison.

I was in a Reformed church and a Orthodox Protestant church.
And there was a lot of interest in the Gospel of the Fourth Beast
but there were a lot of pastors that HATED the message and they
kicked us out of the church for preaching that Gospel. This occurred
for about two years between 1992 an 1994.

/

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