The Kingdom of Heaven Parables. (Matt. 13)

Oldmantook

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Hi Oldmantook,



Yes that also needs looking at. Jesus told the rich young ruler -

`...if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.` (Matt. 19: 17)

So Oldmantook, is that how you are receiving your eternal life in Christ?

Marilyn.
Salvation has two requirements - believing (Jn 3:16) and obeying (Heb 5:9). Keeping the commandments entails obedience. We are commanded to obey. No longer believing and/or disobedience unrepented of, leads to spiritual death. I still sin as does everyone else but I strive to not practice sin as the practice of sin leads to death. (Rom 8:13, Js 5:19-20, 1 Jn 3:7-8).
 
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Marilyn C

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Salvation has two requirements - believing (Jn 3:16) and obeying (Heb 5:9). Keeping the commandments entails obedience. We are commanded to obey. No longer believing and/or disobedience unrepented of, leads to spiritual death. I still sin as does everyone else but I strive to not practice sin as the practice of sin leads to death. (Rom 8:13, Js 5:19-20, 1 Jn 3:7-8).

Hi Oldmantook,

So Israel kept the commandments, and so can you? Really? Salvation is believing and confessing that Jesus died for our sin and then we follow Him by OBEYING the HOLY SPIRIT.

Israel under the Law had to obey the commandments, and because they couldn`t they had to sacrifice to cover their sin.

The Body of Christ is IN CHRIST, who fulfilled the Law & thus as we follow Him, obeying the Holy Spirit we will have the right heart motive and not just the letter of the law.

Marilyn.
 
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Oldmantook

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Hi Oldmantook,

So Israel kept the commandments, and so can you? Really? Salvation is believing and confessing that Jesus died for our sin and then we follow Him by OBEYING the HOLY SPIRIT.

Israel under the Law had to obey the commandments, and because they couldn`t they had to sacrifice to cover their sin.

The Body of Christ is IN CHRIST, who fulfilled the Law & thus as we follow Him, obeying the Holy Spirit we will have the right heart motive and not just the letter of the law.

Marilyn.
Do you think the 10 Commandments are no longer applicable to the believer's life today? Yes or No?Frankly, your position which sounds like dispensationalism is problematic. Let's allow Jesus to speak for himself shall we?
"Whoever has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me. The one who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and reveal Myself to him.” Jn 14:21
We are not only to keep the law, since Jesus never abolished the law but to go beyond it - for example not only not committing physical adultery but not committing visual adultery as well.
 
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Marilyn C

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Do you think the 10 Commandments are no longer applicable to the believer's life today? Yes or No?Frankly, your position which sounds like dispensationalism is problematic. Let's allow Jesus to speak for himself shall we?
"Whoever has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me. The one who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and reveal Myself to him.” Jn 14:21
We are not only to keep the law, since Jesus never abolished the law but to go beyond it - for example not only not committing physical adultery but not committing visual adultery as well.

I said -
The Body of Christ is IN CHRIST, who fulfilled the Law & thus as we follow Him, obeying the Holy Spirit we will have the right heart motive and not just the letter of the law.
 
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Oldmantook

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I said -
The Body of Christ is IN CHRIST, who fulfilled the Law & thus as we follow Him, obeying the Holy Spirit we will have the right heart motive and not just the letter of the law.
I stated it is both. Jesus himself stated that he did not abolish the law. The law still exists, is a tutor and points us to the lamb who fulfills the law.
Furthermore to be in Christ is to obey Christ. A believer in Christ must abide in Christ. Not all believers choose to abide and walk according to the Spirit and thus they cannot be said to be in Christ. "There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit." Rom 8:1
 
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Marilyn C

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I stated it is both. Jesus himself stated that he did not abolish the law. The law still exists, is a tutor and points us to the lamb who fulfills the law.
Furthermore to be in Christ is to obey Christ. A believer in Christ must abide in Christ. Not all believers choose to abide and walk according to the Spirit and thus they cannot be said to be in Christ. "There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit." Rom 8:1

Hi Oldmantook,

I see we both agree. Great.

Marilyn.
 
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7xlightray

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THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN PARABLES. (Matt. 13)

I notice that many people are interpreting these parables as applying to us. This is an error.
Marilyn.
Not looking to offend, only wish to heighten your understanding...

Matthew 28:19 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations..."
Matthew 28:20 "Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you..."

"Whatsoever I have commanded you."
Matthew 28:19-20 was spoken to His Jewish disciples, and as you said written to Israel (Jews), instructing Jews to teach all nations to observe all things whatsoever He had commanded them.
 
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Marilyn C

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Not looking to offend, only wish to heighten your understanding...

Matthew 28:19 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations..."
Matthew 28:20 "Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you..."

"Whatsoever I have commanded you."
Matthew 28:19-20 was spoken to His Jewish disciples, and as you said written to Israel (Jews), instructing Jews to teach all nations to observe all things whatsoever He had commanded them.

Hi 7xlightray,

Thank you for that important comment. And certainly no offence as that is a very important point you bring up. So we are to teach everything that the Lord commanded the disciples to teach.

And that would be concerning Jesus as Lord and Christ, (Acts 2: 36) plus His purposes for Israel and the nations. Note the Body of Christ revelation hadn`t been revealed by Jesus at that time, but later when He ascended and gave that revelation to the Apostle Paul.

So we realise that Jesus would have us to know concerning Himself, and what He is purposing for Israel and the nations. This then gives us understanding of what is happening in the world (as He draws the nations to judgment) and of Israel, (to bring deliverance).

We see that when Jesus was on earth He gave Israel every opportunity for them to receive Him as their king, and He reminded them of their inheritance as rulers over the nations, (Matt. 13 parables). So we see that what Israel could not do, the Lord will do for them, ruling righteously through their leadership that He choses.

All these details enable us who have a further revelation to understand God`s great purpose of bringing everything under Christ. Each realm created by the Lord will have the rulership that He choses - earth - Israel, New Jerusalem - righteous men & women, (Heb. 11: 16) and the third heaven, for the Body of Christ. (Rev.3: 21)

Every thing that the Lord reveals, pre ascension and post ascension all reveals the whole counsel of God through Jesus.

regards, Marilyn.
 
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7xlightray

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Hi 7xlightray,

Thank you for that important comment. And certainly no offence as that is a very important point you bring up. So we are to teach everything that the Lord commanded the disciples to teach.

And that would be concerning Jesus as Lord and Christ, (Acts 2: 36) plus His purposes for Israel and the nations. Note the Body of Christ revelation hadn`t been revealed by Jesus at that time, but later when He ascended and gave that revelation to the Apostle Paul.

So we realise that Jesus would have us to know concerning Himself, and what He is purposing for Israel and the nations. This then gives us understanding of what is happening in the world (as He draws the nations to judgment) and of Israel, (to bring deliverance).

We see that when Jesus was on earth He gave Israel every opportunity for them to receive Him as their king, and He reminded them of their inheritance as rulers over the nations, (Matt. 13 parables). So we see that what Israel could not do, the Lord will do for them, ruling righteously through their leadership that He choses.

All these details enable us who have a further revelation to understand God`s great purpose of bringing everything under Christ. Each realm created by the Lord will have the rulership that He choses - earth - Israel, New Jerusalem - righteous men & women, (Heb. 11: 16) and the third heaven, for the Body of Christ. (Rev.3: 21)

Every thing that the Lord reveals, pre ascension and post ascension all reveals the whole counsel of God through Jesus.

regards, Marilyn.
Hello Marilyn C, good to hear from you, I wrote this up quick, but you will do well, if you meditate on these things.

If we are talking about obeying Christ's words, which are the Father's words, then to obey is love, for love does not seek it's own, which Jesus showed us by example (even in acts as people selling their property to help others, and even unto death as their Lord), by giving up His desire, His will, and obeyed His Father even unto death. Which we should be going through the same process form faith to faith, being transformed into the same image of Christ. Putting away obvious, and your known sins (which become rebellion if not), beginning with the inside (living it on the inside). Capturing every thought to the obedience of Christ 2 Corinthians 10:5.
We are the temple of God. And does not scripture teach that the priests were not to allow anything in the temple, that would defile the it? But even though they did sometimes, God was long suffering, but when the cup got full (no respecter of persons, and He is the same today as yesterday), He left the temple, but it was them that first left God, though they did not think so.

The parables are speaking to this age, referred to as "the Church age." As it is right now, while Christ is delaying His return, not knowing the day or hour, which speaks to us.

If we do wish to wake up, which was spoken to the church/es, warning not to fall asleep (why warn often with such passion, if it is not going to happen in this "Church age") all of us, Jew or Gentile, then we will need to recognize we all feel asleep. Paul warning those in his day including the gentiles, that it could come upon them, warning that evil times were coming, and will only grow worse as gangrene. And Jude saying they are now here, and John already many anichrists.

Matthew 25:1-7; Matthew 13:24-30; Amos 8:12 (where are the 10 tribes, are they not mixed in with the gentile? Which individual is one of the 10, in the four corners of the world? Meaning it world wide, and they can't find it); Daniel 12:4 (and here speaking to the other two tribes). The Church even confessing the book of Daniel was hidden from them, but now knowledge increasing (is not knowledge increasing for the Gentiles, as well, or even more so?).

And do you know our Abrahamic covenant of Faith, this before circumcision Genesis 15:12-14? Also, Joseph raised to the throne with Pharaoh, saving his brothers, and all those gentiles in that kingdom, with 7 years of plenty, 7 years not, then this kingdom forgot about Joseph (type Christ), darkness, and then they all needed to be delivered again.

Now also notice Paul grabbing from that passage of wandering in the wilderness 1 Corinthians 10:6-7,11 (compare with 2 Thessalonians 2 wandering into error, speaking to who?), to be tested, warning and applied to Gentiles. While Moses (type Christ) delayed coming down the mountain Exodus 32:1, Aaron the high priest, because the people demanded (itching ears, will gather to themselves teachers), so Aaron made a false God, and called it YHWH, saying this is your God that delivered you.

And whatever was written before was written for us Romans 15:4.
There is much more to this, but would you believe me?

We all need to come to a mature man, in other words from a child not understanding.
How many Christian Christ and God's are there today? How many denomination? Not believing in the power to overcome sin, with desires for all the things the world desires. Thinking to themselves, no one will see me, if they think to themselves fornication, lies, scheming, and all their desires 2 Corinthians 10:5. Thinking secretly to themselves ignoring those verses that contradict, going from one doctrine to another, because they can't find the truth. Even secretly confused on foundational doctrines, like who is God, or Christ, even disagreeing among themselves. All the apostles taught one doctrine. Just alone think on this, how many Trinitarian denominations/non-denominations are there?

Not in a good state, broken into many denominations/non-denominations, not of one mind. Yet we are to have the mind of Christ. How many minds should we attribute to Christ? What false doctrine catapulted Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2, and compare with today? Which such false doctrines destroys faith, by which we stand and are saved by, believing God not a lie. Truth is important!

1 Timothy 6:14 A Jew teaching a Gentile.
 
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Marilyn C

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Hello Marilyn C, good to hear from you, I wrote this up quick, but you will do well, if you meditate on these things.

If we are talking about obeying Christ's words, which are the Father's words, then to obey is love, for love does not seek it's own, which Jesus showed us by example (even in acts as people selling their property to help others, and even unto death as their Lord), by giving up His desire, His will, and obeyed His Father even unto death. Which we should be going through the same process form faith to faith, being transformed into the same image of Christ. Putting away obvious, and your known sins (which become rebellion if not), beginning with the inside (living it on the inside). Capturing every thought to the obedience of Christ 2 Corinthians 10:5.
We are the temple of God. And does not scripture teach that the priests were not to allow anything in the temple, that would defile the it? But even though they did sometimes, God was long suffering, but when the cup got full (no respecter of persons, and He is the same today as yesterday), He left the temple, but it was them that first left God, though they did not think so.

The parables are speaking to this age, referred to as "the Church age." As it is right now, while Christ is delaying His return, not knowing the day or hour, which speaks to us.

Hi 7xlightray,

I agree that we need to heed the truths in God`s word concerning attitude and behaviour. However to just focus on ourselves becomes ego-centric & does not mature us.

God`s word is Christ centred and we need to grow in the knowledge of HIM, His character and His purposes, to become mature. .

`And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, He (Christ) expounded to them in all the scriptures the things pertaining to Himself.` (Luke 24: 27)

`....till we all come to the unity of the faith and the KNOWLEDGE of the Son of God, to a perfect, (mature) man, to the measure of the fullness of Christ.......may grow up in all things into Him who is the Head - Christ.` (Eph. 4: 13 & 15)

And those purposes in Christ involve - the Body of Christ, Israel and the nations. So to make what the Lord says as, all about us, is a great error. For example when the Lord is talking to the people of Israel in Matt. 13, if we take that as about us, then we negate what He is saying about Himself and His purpose for Israel. This wrong view leads to self focus and NOT Christ focused.

regards, Marilyn.

 
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7xlightray

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Hi 7xlightray,

I agree that we need to heed the truths in God`s word concerning attitude and behaviour. However to just focus on ourselves becomes ego-centric & does not mature us.

God`s word is Christ centred and we need to grow in the knowledge of HIM, His character and His purposes, to become mature. .

`And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, He (Christ) expounded to them in all the scriptures the things pertaining to Himself.` (Luke 24: 27)

`....till we all come to the unity of the faith and the KNOWLEDGE of the Son of God, to a perfect, (mature) man, to the measure of the fullness of Christ.......may grow up in all things into Him who is the Head - Christ.` (Eph. 4: 13 & 15)

And those purposes in Christ involve - the Body of Christ, Israel and the nations. So to make what the Lord says as, all about us, is a great error. For example when the Lord is talking to the people of Israel in Matt. 13, if we take that as about us, then we negate what He is saying about Himself and His purpose for Israel. This wrong view leads to self focus and NOT Christ focused.

regards, Marilyn.
To be clear, I'm not saying God will not restore Israel, but Christ does return after sleep, even warning the seven churches, that He will with the sword of His mouth make war (Revelation 2:12, Revelation 2:16 with Revelation 19:15) against any that are one with the world, and/or serve false Christs and Gods (which come with false doctrine (false doctrine, not hearing Christ, kills faith and leads one into sleep)). The falling away comes first, and has come. Now is the time to wake up! Right now!

Notice Paul is grabbing from where Moses delays coming down the mountain and they make a false God (YHWH). This a warning to this age; just as was spoken that there were false prophets then, then there will also be false prophets in this age 2 Peter 2:1 with 1 John 4:1 with Jude 1:3-4. Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition [warning], upon whom the ends of the world are come. -1 Corinthians 10:11. Romans 15:4.

I do believe they are for both Jew and Gentile, anyone willing to do His will. It was not so much about who but when.

In context, I was referring to scripture, which one would need to apply to one self, if one wanted to believe, and be delivered from darkness, sleep (Revelation 3:2), sin. Many denomination/non-denomination with false Christs and Gods, and obviously doctrines. How many versions of Christ and God have you heard of?

We need wisdom, knowledge, and understanding through the holy spirit.
What's the point of correct and precise knowledge if there is no understanding of it, it's just a noise.
Matthew 13:23 And he that was sown upon the good ground, this is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; who verily beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

The enemy that did this, that plant his seed in Christ's field (Matthew 13:24-25, Matthew 13:28), is Revelation 12:17; Revelation 13:1-2, Revelation 13:7. Our Abraham covenant of of faith Genesis 15:12-14.

Can you show me where your version fits in Revelation?
 
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Marilyn C

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To be clear, I'm not saying God will not restore Israel, but Christ does return after sleep, even warning the seven churches, that He will with the sword of His mouth make war (Revelation 2:12, Revelation 2:16 with Revelation 19:15) against any that are one with the world, and/or serve false Christs and Gods (which come with false doctrine (false doctrine, not hearing Christ, kills faith and leads one into sleep)). The falling away comes first, and has come. Now is the time to wake up! Right now!

Notice Paul is grabbing from where Moses delays coming down the mountain and they make a false God (YHWH). This a warning to this age; just as was spoken that there were false prophets then, then there will also be false prophets in this age 2 Peter 2:1 with 1 John 4:1 with Jude 1:3-4. Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition [warning], upon whom the ends of the world are come. -1 Corinthians 10:11. Romans 15:4.

I do believe they are for both Jew and Gentile, anyone willing to do His will. It was not so much about who but when.

In context, I was referring to scripture, which one would need to apply to one self, if one wanted to believe, and be delivered from darkness, sleep (Revelation 3:2), sin. Many denomination/non-denomination with false Christs and Gods, and obviously doctrines. How many versions of Christ and God have you heard of?

We need wisdom, knowledge, and understanding through the holy spirit.
What's the point of correct and precise knowledge if there is no understanding of it, it's just a noise.
Matthew 13:23 And he that was sown upon the good ground, this is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; who verily beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

The enemy that did this, that plant his seed in Christ's field (Matthew 13:24-25, Matthew 13:28), is Revelation 12:17; Revelation 13:1-2, Revelation 13:7. Our Abraham covenant of of faith Genesis 15:12-14.

Can you show me where your version fits in Revelation?

Hi 7xlightray,

Yes we both agree that God will restore Israel, and that we in the Body of Christ have been warned not to have the same attitude as the former Israelites.

`Now these things become our example to the intent that we should not lust after evil things as they also lusted.` (1 Cor. 10: 6)

This does not mean that those scriptures were us doing those things. Thus we see that we learn from their errors but we do not make their journey as though it was our journey. That is what people do when reading the Matt. 13 (& others) scripture. They make it about themselves. This is NOT what God says to do. God warned specifically about attitudes, (an example to us) and that is the focus, not twisting God`s word as though the actual is us.

So....in Matt. 13 we see the tares and wheat are harvested together. This is not so for the Body of Christ which will be caught away before any judgment of the nations. The tares are burned in a furnace, (lake of fire), and God`s word tells us that that is at the end of the millennium. (Rev. 20: 11 - 15)

regards, Marilyn.
 
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7xlightray

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Hi 7xlightray,
This does not mean that those scriptures were us doing those things. Thus we see that we learn from their errors but we do not make their journey as though it was our journey. That is what people do when reading the Matt. 13 (& others) scripture. They make it about themselves. This is NOT what God says to do. God warned specifically about attitudes, (an example to us) and that is the focus, not twisting God`s word as though the actual is us.
I do not mean any offence, just to keep it sincere, but are you stating, and believe, that I was suggesting, that we have lived all this time, from the time of the Exodus to this day, and were the ones who committed those sins?! Cause you seem to be making a very good argument for that very thing.

Not just attitude, but "men" false prophets Jude 1:4. Those false prophets are not our attitudes, yet for sure they were coming. Or Just as Christ is not actually Moses, but Christ was to come, and all those things that were to happen in His days, that were prophesied. That is how we are to understand them. Like the resurrection, we all need to apply to ourselves, else you won't receive, or be aware.

Not those particular false prophets, just as those particular attitudes were not us who committed them, even though they are applied to us. Just as false prophets would be applied to our time. I would have thought that would have been understood, straightforward!

So....in Matt. 13 we see the tares and wheat are harvested together. This is not so for the Body of Christ which will be caught away before any judgment of the nations. The tares are burned in a furnace, (lake of fire), and God`s word tells us that that is at the end of the millennium. (Rev. 20: 11 - 15)
Notice, there are two periods of deceiving Revelation 20:3, Revelation 20:7-8
 
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Marilyn C

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I do not mean any offence, just to keep it sincere, but are you stating, and believe, that I was suggesting, that we have lived all this time, from the time of the Exodus to this day, and were the ones who committed those sins?! Cause you seem to be making a very good argument for that very thing.

Not just attitude, but "men" false prophets Jude 1:4. Those false prophets are not our attitudes, yet for sure they were coming. Or Just as Christ is not actually Moses, but Christ was to come, and all those things that were to happen in His days, that were prophesied. That is how we are to understand them. Like the resurrection, we all need to apply to ourselves, else you won't receive, or be aware.

Not those particular false prophets, just as those particular attitudes were not us who committed them, even though they are applied to us. Just as false prophets would be applied to our time. I would have thought that would have been understood, straightforward!


Notice, there are two periods of deceiving Revelation 20:3, Revelation 20:7-8

Hi 7xlightray,

I`m sorry if I haven`t come over clear. I was not suggesting that, but to try and show that taking scriptures out of their original meaning gets muddled.

So we both agree that God has warned us concerning our attitudes in relation to how Israel acted, plus there would be false prophets coming. However I`m sure we would not then take that as a licence to pick other scriptures and make them about us, when they are directed at Israel, (eg. Matt. 13 parables).

As to your last comment, do you mean -
- Rev. 20: 3, Satan had been deceiving the nations.
- Rev.7 - 8, Satan will deceive the nations at the end of the millennium.

regards, Marilyn.
 
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7xlightray

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I`m sorry if I haven`t come over clear. I was not suggesting that, but to try and show that taking scriptures out of their original meaning gets muddled.
I know of no muddling of which you speak, I'm not confused.
So we both agree that God has warned us concerning our attitudes in relation to how Israel acted, plus there would be false prophets coming.
It being about attitude, was never a debate with me. It is always about attitude; being content in every situation.
However I`m sure we would not then take that as a licence to pick other scriptures and make them about us, when they are directed at Israel, (eg. Matt. 13 parables).
We would need the mind of Christ. Then how would they have recognize this prophecy without doing that... Matthew 2:15 from Hosea 11:1?
As to your last comment, do you mean -
- Rev. 20: 3, Satan had been deceiving the nations.
- Rev.7 - 8, Satan will deceive the nations at the end of the millennium.
I believe this is what I texted Revelation 20:3, Revelation 20:7-8, and Yes.
 
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I wrote -
However I`m sure we would not then take that as a licence to pick other scriptures and make them about us, when they are directed at Israel, (eg. Matt. 13 parables).

You said -
We would need the mind of Christ. Then how would they have recognize this prophecy without doing that... Matthew 2:15 from Hosea 11:1?

My answer -
The book of Matthew was written to the Jews concerning their King. Thus God has revealed the (old testament prophecies) scriptures concerning His Son, Israel`s king, and the many details of His coming.

(Not quite sure if that is what you have asked.)

regards, Marilyn.
 
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Marilyn C

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Marilyn C,

May I ask you a question, that is off topic, about being baptized in the holy spirit, besides the baptism of Jesus Christ in water, which would only require a "Yes" or "No" answer?

Also, it's okay, I don't want you to go through all that typing of my name each time, I will not be offended.

Yes, go right ahead.
 
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7xlightray

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I wrote -
However I`m sure we would not then take that as a licence to pick other scriptures and make them about us, when they are directed at Israel, (eg. Matt. 13 parables).

You said -
We would need the mind of Christ. Then how would they have recognize this prophecy without doing that... Matthew 2:15 from Hosea 11:1?

My answer -
The book of Matthew was written to the Jews concerning their King. Thus God has revealed the (old testament prophecies) scriptures concerning His Son, Israel`s king, and the many details of His coming.

(Not quite sure if that is what you have asked.)

regards, Marilyn.
Yet, they still had to do that, meaning it is an acceptable way of understanding the scriptures.
And that is the way it is written, it is spoken to Israel, but applied to Christ. Showing how your Great Teacher understood them.
 
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