The Kingdom of God

[Justme]

Hi,
I haven't figured out how to respond to specific posts yet, but my comments here are general anyway.
Concerning when John wrote the Book of Revelation.

We have to assume that John wrote the story of his vision as it happened and apparently under the guidance of God. Therefore, only when he SAW the vision has relevance, when John wrote it doesn't, as long as he was devinely guided in that writing and wrote as he saw it, it don't matter when he recorded it.

Concerning the second coming etc.
The phrases 'coming of the son of man',the kingdom of God and the kingdom of Heaven are all used to mean the same thing. The coming of the son of man is predicted to come within that generation and Luke 17 ; 20,21 tells us more about that.
John 11 :25, 26 indicate that the natural life DIES and the SPIRITUAL life begins (lives) so quickly that actually Martha will never die.
So I see the second coming of Christ occuring at the personal death of each individual and that process started back in the first century.

It makes for an interesting read if you hold that 'mindset?' and read thru NT scripture. I haven't found any yet that won't fit in to that idea.

Justme

 

[davo]

Originally posted by Patmosman_sga
The phrase "appear a second time" is from the Day of Atonement, the holiest day of the year on the Jewish calendar, when the High Priest, after appearing to the people in the temple court, would enter the Holy of Holies and offer the sacrifice of atonement for all the people's sins. Then, he would "appear a second time" to the people who were waiting outside. For the priest to "appear a second time" meant the sacrifice had been accepted and the sins atoned for. The blood of the lamb slain in the sacrifice was then placed on the head of the scapegoat, who was sent off into the wilderness.

"Those who are waiting for him" includes the living and the dead. The events surrounding the fall of Jerusalem represent within history the completion of God's plan of salvation for all humankind. However, its ultimate realization is beyond history in the eschatological kingdom of God toward which all of history is moving. In the "end," Christ will "appear" to all of us and we will all "appear" before his judgment seat. Precisely how this is brought about is a matter of conjecture, although I tend to believe that those who have "gone before us" now have a little better understanding of this ultimate reality.

G'day James a good run-down on the role and function of the High Priest. My only variation on what you shared would be that "the events surrounding the fall of Jerusalem" were more than "representative" -but were the ACTUAL "completion of God's plan of salvation for all humankind." Otherwise in the typology of the High Priest, humanities salvation is still in abeyance and not complete. If the Lord's Parousia [prefigured in the High Priest's return] has not occured then neither is salvation secured, and humanity still hopelessly lost. Christ's Parousia completed redemption.

davo

 

[GTX]

Does Justme's post seem like a new twist on this Preterism?

 

[Patmosman_sga]

You are, historically speaking, correct. My only caveat to preterists is that they develop a more holistic understanding of eschatological salvation. Ultimately, it is not a "this worldly" reality, so even the "actual" completion of God's plan within history can only point us to the "ultimate" completion which we will experience in the life to come. As such, our lives right now ought to be lived so as to point toward that "ultimate" completion in eternity.

 

[davo]

Originally posted by Patmosman_sga
You are, historically speaking, correct. My only caveat to preterists is that they develop a more holistic understanding of eschatological salvation. Ultimately, it is not a "this worldly" reality, so even the "actual" completion of God's plan within history can only point us to the "ultimate" completion which we will experience in the life to come. As such, our lives right now ought to be lived so as to point toward that "ultimate" completion in eternity.

Yes, I hear what you are saying. What I would say is that covenant eschatology is saying that that "ultimate" is present "now" because of the finished work of Christ -and yet not to be missinterpreted in "temporal" expectations -what awaits beyond the veil of physical death is as you indicated, better know by those who have sojourned there.

davo

 

[GTX]

Right on there James (I think), I too have a caveat (I like that word), the preterists seem so happy and joyful and that is great, and even if they are wrong their salvation is secure I am sure.

But I still want to know what is going to happen to the Earth in the future, from a preterist standpoint.

 

[parousia70]

Originally posted by GTX


But I still want to know what is going to happen to the Earth in the future, from a preterist standpoint.

from prteristcosmos.com
Preterists do not know future events, but we are fully confident in the fact that whatever the conquering Savior pleases to do, He does, on earth as in heaven (Ps. 135:6). And when we consider the divine eternality of the Church on earth and her progressive divine dominion, we know that her future, and hence the future of humanity, will be filled to overflowing with innumerable blessings which are even now utterly impossible for us to grasp. For what wonders will God work in and through His more-than-conquering Church after 10,000 years of ecclesiastical progress, or after 1,000,000 years of victory? Only God can know (Eccl. 3:11). What we do know is that in Christ Jesus our Creator and our Redeemer, the future of mankind on earth under His dominion will surely be "exceeding abundantly" and incomprehensibly wonderful....

"Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us, unto him be glory in the Church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen" (Eph. 3:20-21).

GTX, I agree with the above. As Isaiah said "Of the increase of His government and His peace there shall be no end." (Isaiah 9:7)

The earth is destined to produce fruit for Christ forever.
That is the earth's purpose.

 

[davo]

Originally posted by GTX
But I still want to know what is going to happen to the Earth in the future, from a preterist standpoint.

GTX, Covenant eschatology is not about predicting any future -in this world we have the pleasure of introducing folk to their Creator [in all things we do] -we have turned "witnessing" into "doing" but Jesus said you shall "be" my witnesses -it's not what we do [though it doesn't exclude this], it is more who we are.
Sometimes being a "witness" costs -that's why it is the same greek word elsewhere translated "martyr."

davo

 

[GTX]

The earth is destined to produce fruit for Christ forever.
That is the earth's purpose.

Forever? Are you sure? Well what about the fact that the sun will eventually burn out? Will God fix this? This kind of intervention would have to be physical, if he's going to do that, why wouldn't he return to Earth in the physical sense?

See Jesus is coming back to renew the Earth.

 

[Justme]

Hi GTX,

Concerning a new slant on preterism.
I don't fully understand preterism and I can say that I had developed most of my understanding of the NT long before I heard the word 'preterist.'

My basic- basic understanding of the bible is the average, majority, run of the mill idea of everday christians I think. Most people I know simply believe(or at least consider) the dead wind up in Heaven. When the process started is not an issue; when the process will end, likewise,is not an issue.

Justme