The Jellyfish in the brains of science deeply insult mankind.

[PsychoSarah]

Well then you used to do more than science does/can do...believe in spirits! They religiously avoid it.

-_- what are you talking about? Many scientists have dedicated their careers (and offtime) to trying to study ghosts, gods, etc. The lack of conclusive evidence gained does not indicate a lack of effort.

Jesus eliminated the need for that for believers.

We all go to be together, so we can't help but see them later, alligator.

-_- except for the ones that didn't actually believe. They go to the lake of fire. Whether you like it or not, your entire family will not be in heaven if the afterlife is as you believe it is. There will be people you care about that burn. For all you know, some little flicker of doubt you have before you die will get you sent there too.

In the case of science, it does not include anything but the physical. By design/dogma/methodology.

I would say, that anything which is 100% impossible to measure no matter what, no innovations will make it otherwise, that said thing has so little impact (if any) on our lives as to make it irrelevant whether or not it exists. However, people attribute tons of things to deities, so clearly, people do not believe that YHWH, etc., have no influence on our lives. So if deities exist, they should leave measurable evidence behind.

I would ask, if they wanted to include the historically observed and repeated spiritual elements of human experience on earth, why is it that only the physical is allowed/considered/believed/admitted?

-_- the spiritual stuff is often tested and found to be fraudulent. Which is why you don't see faith healers touring children's hospitals and curing all the kids of cancer, etc.

These things are not entirely dismissed immediately by the scientific community as a whole. There certainly are individuals that handwave stuff like this, but that's their personal choice.

That is a bit like saying you want a journey by plane-- and considering only buses, trains, rental cars, and ships as means of travel.

Not really. It's not like I can force myself to believe to get the evidence to substantiate the belief, that's entirely backwards.

 

[dad]

-_- what are you talking about? Many scientists have dedicated their careers (and offtime) to trying to study ghosts, gods, etc. The lack of conclusive evidence gained does not indicate a lack of effort.

Well I could dedicate my life to booking air vacations, but if I limit myself to trains and cars and ships and buses, what hope would there be that I book air vacations?

If science uses a physical only system to look for things far beyond that level, what hope would they have?

-_- except for the ones that didn't actually believe. They go to the lake of fire. Whether you like it or not, your entire family will not be in heaven if the afterlife is as you believe it is. There will be people you care about that burn. For all you know, some little flicker of doubt you have before you die will get you sent there too.

Maybe some folks would avoid getting saved because they figure mom didn't so why would I. Later they decide to get saved. They get to heaven and there is mom. Mom? 'how did you get here'? Sorry darling, I didn't want to mention I prayed as a young girl to keep you away from God in that stage of my life when I was running away from Him...good thing you didn't listen to me!'

Hey, I do know know the history and hearts of people. I do know that there is not more merciful and wonderful One in the universe though. There is no better option for everyone but to trust in Him.

I would say, that anything which is 100% impossible to measure no matter what, no innovations will make it otherwise, that said thing has so little impact (if any) on our lives as to make it irrelevant whether or not it exists.

God is not impossible to know. Even most of the world knows there are spirits of some sort around. The way I know Jesus did miracles is twofold. One, by looking at the good men who knew Him and died to testify what He said was true, and the things they did. Also, by looking at the fulfilled prophesies that permeate history and Scripture. Two, by trying it out, and watching Him work in my world. NOT by something someone does in a lab!

However, people attribute tons of things to deities, so clearly, people do not believe that YHWH, etc., have no influence on our lives. So if deities exist, they should leave measurable evidence behind.

They do. Even bad ones, such as in cases where people get possessed, it affects many.

-_- the spiritual stuff is often tested and found to be fraudulent.

No. If is is tested is is not spiritual! It might be the con jobs that are physical that got tested and busted. Like Houdini used to do apparently.

Which is why you don't see faith healers touring children's hospitals and curing all the kids of cancer, etc.

Great point. Jesus healed, some say most of the country of Palestine...multitudes...multitudes. Neither did someone that go healed take years or weeks to fully heal...it was instant.

Not really. It's not like I can force myself to believe to get the evidence to substantiate the belief, that's entirely backwards.

Faith comes by reading the word of God with a sincere heart...not from gymnastics, mind games, or a treasure hunt.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

How does scientific theory work in your eyes ?

A scientific theory is a well-tested framework of facts, observations and evidence that leads to a predictive model that can be used to provide solutions to real-world problems. It essentially works because it has been tested time and time again with respect to a number of possible scenarios, and continues to give reliable results that are concordant with reality. Why do you ask?

 

[cfyahoo08]

A scientific theory is a well-tested framework of facts, observations and evidence that leads to a predictive model that can be used to provide solutions to real-world problems. It essentially works because it has been tested time and time again with respect to a number of possible scenarios, and continues to give reliable results that are concordant with reality. Why do you ask?

Well, that which is physical / "Scientific" in nature has its set of rules to follow to get a HOPEFULLY objective result, if it NOT objective it is JUNK Science . In order to get the same sort of results with "Spiritual" matters one would need to utilize spiritual tools. In order to get barometric pressure readings you use a barometer, in order to get spiritual readings/results you utilize prayer, study and faith.

"It essentially works because it has been tested time and time again with respect to a number of possible scenarios, and continues to give reliable results" Last I heard there are 4 BILLION people of faith on the planet.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

I like what my pastor once pointed out.

Matthew 27:42 He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he be the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him.

After healing the sick, raising the dead, and walking on water, those empiricists still wanted more proof.

Do you really think they were going to believe Him if He came down from the cross?

Empiricists today are no different.

I like what Christopher Hitchins once said:

"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence." - Christopher Hitchins​

Just so stories about healing the sick, raising the dead, and walking on water, should necessarily be accompanied by evidence proportional to the claim. For example, do you accept the stories from Hindus who have first hand experience of miracles and encounters with Hindu prophets and angels that demonstrate Hinduism to be true?

Do you really think that Christians will accept the Hindu claims that their first-hand evidence proves their faith?

Compartmentalising hypocrites today are no different.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

You must live in Disneyland. Ole dad has you fooled with his bluster. When you don't stand for anything, you'll fall for everything. Amen?

No, no, you're just wrong and don't want to admit it.

 

[AV1611VET]

I like what Christopher Hitchins once said:

"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence." - Christopher Hitchins​

Werfen Sie das Kind nicht mit dem Bade aus. -German proverb

Just so stories about healing the sick, raising the dead, and walking on water, should necessarily be accompanied by evidence proportional to the claim.

They were.

For example, do you accept the stories from Hindus who have first hand experience of miracles and encounters with Hindu prophets and angels that demonstrate Hinduism to be true?

No.

Do you really think that Christians will accept the Hindu claims that their first-hand evidence proves their faith?

Yes -- that's why we call them a "mission field."

As we put it:

They are sincere; but sincerely wrong.

Compartmentalising hypocrites today are no different.

Whatever that meant.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

Well, that which is physical / "Scientific" in nature has its set of rules to follow to get a HOPEFULLY objective result, if it NOT objective it is JUNK Science . In order to get the same sort of results with "Spiritual" matters one would need to utilize spiritual tools. In order to get barometric pressure readings you use a barometer, in order to get spiritual readings/results you utilize prayer, study and faith.

"It essentially works because it has been tested time and time again with respect to a number of possible scenarios, and continues to give reliable results" Last I heard there are 4 BILLION people of faith on the planet.

Ooh, good one. Is 'Faith' a reliable way to get to the truth of something? Do all 4 billion faithful believe in your particular version of your particular religion? Do you accept all the first hand experience of Hindu faithful on their NDEs, Guru saints and Prophets, and miracles?

https://www.indiatimes.com/lifestyl...at-prove-miracles-actually-happen-245505.html
https://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-faith-column/2007/01/lord-shiva-hinduism-milk
https://www.speakingtree.in/blog/hindu-list-of-miracles​

There are many more stories and accounts in non-english speaking forums and websites, but this demonstrates my point nonetheless. That humans are gullible and/or easily fooled is not groundbreaking. This is why Science, and such a tool as the Scientific Method is so invaluable in sorting the wheat from the chaff, so to speak. It is the best way we have so far to come about the truth of something.

 

[Kylie]

You lack that ability for life in the past, and life in the present is not relevant.




I brush so called science aside because it has no rock to stand on, no foundation, no proof, no evidence...not because I don't like it. I accept actual science of the present day and knowledge also, not because I like it, but because it does have evidence and support and is based on knowledge. Those concerned with truth who are also acquainted with it have a filter. They do not just imbibe anything that is set before them as true. We happen to know that there are evil forces that seek to deceive and mislead men.


One big flaw is that they base everything about the past on the nature of the present with no clue what the actual nature in the past was like.

They need more than a hatred for God and His word to get their fables by us.

Once again, you demonstrate that you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[Aman777]

But God wasn’t finished yet. He also created birds and other flying creatures (GENESIS 1:20–21).

Lying to children isn't nice. Birds/fowl were made temporarily by Lord God/Jesus on the 6th Day. Gen 2:19 You have confused God's creation of living creatures from water with the formation of temporal birds. Tell us WHICH DAY birds were made if you can. Notice that Gen 1:21 and Gen 2:19 contradict your view. Pick one.

On Day Six, God commanded the earth to bring forth living creatures (GENESIS 1:24). All of the animals that live (or lived) on the land—such as elephants, horses, and dinosaurs—were created on this day (GENESIS 1:24–25).

Not so, since God commanded Lord God/Jesus to make the common ancestors of creatures on Adam's world, from the ground. Lord God made the beasts of the field and BIRDS Genesis 2:19 for God to CREATE eternally. Genesis 1:25 God can see the end from the beginning, which allows Him to model eternal kinds after the kinds Jesus made BEFORE Jesus made them. Isa 46:10 It also allows God to prophesy about future events BEFORE they happen.

After He finished creating the animals, God turned His attention to His most important creation—mankind (GENESIS 1:26). God created man and woman in His very image (GENESIS 1:27), “and God breathed into man the breath of life, and man became a living being” (GENESIS 2:7). Man is unique among all that God made. None of the animals were created in God’s image, only man and woman were. God even created a special place for them to live, the Garden of Eden (GENESIS 2:15).

You are confusing Gen 2:7 with Gen 2:19. Here's the sequence. Adam was made BEFORE the beginning of our Cosmos on the 3rd Day. Gen 2:4-7 Two of God's Days later (9 Billion years in man's time) God brought prehistoric people from the water on the 5th Day. Gen 1:21 At the beginning of the present 6th Day, Jesus made Eve. Gen 2:22 Adam was 14 billion years old when he and Eve were married.

God created Adam, the first man, from dust (GENESIS 2:7) and made Adam’s wife Eve from his rib (GENESIS 2:21–22). This was the very first marriage, created by God. He blessed them and told them that they were to rule over the earth and fill it with children (GENESIS 1:28)."

False. God gives them dominion or rule over EVERY living creature including mosquitoes, viruses and Angels. 1Co 6:3 Lord God/Jesus changes Lions Bears and every living creature into vegetarians. Genesis 1:30 and Isaiah 11:7 Then and only them God rests (Heb-ceases creating) and declares that His Creation is very good or better than perfect. Genesis 1:31 Amen?

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

Werfen Sie das Kind nicht mit dem Bade aus. -German proverb

Heh! Didn't know it was a German proverb... well, there you go!

They were.

Then why don't we know about it? (showstopper: Claims in a book are not Evidence)

No.

Why not? What differentiates Christian miracle claims from Hindu miracle claims? How can Hindus even have miracles if Hinduism isn't true?

Yes -- that's why we call them a "mission field."

As we put it:

They are sincere; but sincerely wrong.

How do you know it's Them that are sincerely wrong - Hindu predates all the Abrahamic religions by quite a long shot.

Whatever that meant.

You believe all the claims of the Bible, yet discount all the claims of other religions even though the substantive evidence for all of them are the same.

 

[dad]

Once again, you demonstrate that you have no idea what you are talking about.

You misread the demo...totally. You demonstrate that you almost never post any discussion of topics and issues.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

Who should I show that to? Should I show it to deaf and blind to anything but the physical science?

You should show Everyone if our eternal salvation is a thing, why pick and choose?

Or should we ask the billions of people over all time who have experienced spiritual realities and even spirits?

Does that include the Hindu spiritual reality too? Should I take their first hand experience of miracles and guru/mystic encounters, and even encounters with their Gods to be true?

Should we make the criteria that a spirit must appear in bodily form speaking and being virtually physical and show itself to a panel of scientists? Or should we expect that those who seek and come to God and ask and wait would have the real chance to experience spiritual things?

If they are a thing which manifests here in reality in any way, then yes, it should be demonstrable. It isn't my fault that your claim is unsubstantiated and/or unfalsifiable. That it can't be demonstrated in any way should be reason enough to give you pause - I have no doubt you'll barrel on making more unsubstantiated claims though...

 

[dad]

Lying to children isn't nice. Birds/fowl were made temporarily by Lord God/Jesus on the 6th Day. Gen 2:19 You have confused God's creation of living creatures from water with the formation of temporal birds. Tell us WHICH DAY birds were made if you can. Notice that Gen 1:21 and Gen 2:19 contradict your view. Pick one.

You thought birds were temporary Seems to me they are still here.

You do not look to chapter 2 to learn what day anything was made. That was given already in chap 1. I see chap two points out birds came from the ground. So much for your from water claims!

Not so, since God commanded Lord God/Jesus to make the common ancestors of creatures on Adam's world, from the ground.

Only you call anything common ancestors, the bible never mentioned any such thing...what agenda you have I don't know.

Lord God made the beasts of the field and BIRDS Genesis 2:19 for God to CREATE eternally. Genesis 1:25 God can see the end from the beginning, which allows Him to model eternal kinds after the kinds Jesus made BEFORE Jesus made them. Isa 46:10 It also allows God to prophesy about future events BEFORE they happen.

Utterly made up nonsense.

You are confusing Gen 2:7 with Gen 2:19. Here's the sequence.

No sequence is attainable from chapter two.


It was all finished already by chap 2 as the very first verse says. So the sequence we see is that you delve into confusion by grasping for some sequence after the fact in chap 2. The result is deep confusion.

Adam was made BEFORE the beginning of our Cosmos on the 3rd Day. Gen 2:4-7 Two of God's Days later (9 Billion years in man's time)

Of course after the sequence was inniciated of diving off the deep end by assuming some confused sequence in chap 2....we end up with this mischievous madness.

God brought prehistoric people from the water on the 5th Day. Gen 1:21 At the beginning of the present 6th Day, Jesus made Eve. Gen 2:22 Adam was 14 billion years old when he and Eve were married.

Blah blah.

False. God gives them dominion or rule over EVERY living creature including mosquitoes, viruses and Angels. 1Co 6:3 Lord God/Jesus changes Lions Bears and every living creature into vegetarians. Genesis 1:30 and Isaiah 11:7 Then and only them God rests (Heb-ceases creating) and declares that His Creation is very good or better than perfect. Genesis 1:31 Amen?

No. He said it was very good long ago. Not just after some epoch you invoke where mosquitoes are ruled over!

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

There is no research showing we are related to jellyfish. There is religion only. Why would I lower myself to an animals level or bug level? Did Jesus die to save the beatles? Did a chariot from heaven come down to take a jellyfish to the realm and kingdom of God, as it did for Elijah?

We are worth many sparrows.

ahhh, hubris of the highest order.... I bet you even think the entire universe was created for you too, amirite?? Debunk the research you linked in your OP already!! Show us all how we are the center of the Universe!

The scientific method is the method that avoids truth and is guaranteed to be unable to find it. No matter how hard they work. They need to stop working at avoiding the truth to have a chance of finding truth.

That's why it's literally brought about everything we enjoy, all the technology we use, food we eat and medicines and treatments that keep us all alive for so long while giving us a quality of life we've never had so much of. convincing me, you are.....not.

Name the basic elements and I will debunk the living daylights out of them?

Phylogenetic Tree. k, GO!

 

[AV1611VET]

Then why don't we know about it?

Hmmm ... let's see.

That's a tough question.

Oh, I got it!

Because you weren't there.

No ... wait ... there's a better answer.

Because science is myopic.

What differentiates Christian miracle claims from Hindu miracle claims?

Ahem ... um ... [clears throat again] ... uh ... you know ... Jesus Christ?

How can Hindus even have miracles if Hinduism isn't true?

Because they starve to death while their miracle cows roam the streets right in front of them?

Because they are racked with disease because they was in their Miracle Ganges while their miracle cows urinate upstream?

Because their caste system is so oppressive they left Hinduism in droves at one time, just for relief?

How do you know it's Them that are sincerely wrong -

Because Western academia embraces it, and even dares compare it to Christianity.

Hindu predates all the Abrahamic religions by quite a long shot.

Uh ... huh.

Name me one Hindu prior to 1850.

You believe all the claims of the Bible, yet discount all the claims of other religions even though the substantive evidence for all of them are the same.

So you're saying there is evidence for Christianity?

 

[dad]

You should show Everyone if our eternal salvation is a thing, why pick and choose?

He's trying.

Does that include the Hindu spiritual reality too? Should I take their first hand experience of miracles and guru/mystic encounters, and even encounters with their Gods to be true?

I don't doubt the demons spoke/affected/did things. That is another reason we need God...to protect us from evil spirits.

If they are a thing which manifests here in reality in any way, then yes, it should be demonstrable.

Not really. Now if you were a thing that manifested..that might be true. However spirits are under certain rules and cannot do anything without permission from God. They have limits. There will come a day when God comes down and is revealed to all. Right now, we need to believe. Blessed is he that believes, having not seen.

Doubting Thomas knew enough that he should have believed all the others. Yet he didn't till Jesus appeared to him. He would have had a much better blessing if he had believed.

 

[dad]

ahhh, hubris of the highest order.... I bet you even think the entire universe was created for you too, amirite?? Debunk the research you linked in your OP already!! Show us all how we are the center of the Universe!

Research?

"Mucus is able to protect us from infection thanks to ancient genes that have been conserved throughout 350 million years of evolution -- dating back to our days as a jellyfish."

What research? The fables from science come at us fast and hard and are presented as true stories. If they dared put the reasons why in there, well, maybe they would get laughed at...or at least enable someone to refute them. Instead they run at the mouth religiously.

That's why it's literally brought about everything we enjoy, all the technology we use, food we eat and medicines and treatments that keep us all alive for so long while giving us a quality of life we've never had so much of. convincing me, you are.....not.

I enjoy water and fresh air and wind, and the sun and moon and animals. They did not bring any of that. They brought WOMD, sex change operations, lobotomies etc etc.

Phylogenetic Tree. k, GO!

For the tree to be of use we need to be able to determine ancestors. They can't do that for the most part. They slap together fragmented pieces of a puzzle they don't have 10% of the pieces for in a religious frenzy of methodical ungodly fanaticism.

 

[cfyahoo08]

Ooh, good one. Is 'Faith' a reliable way to get to the truth of something? Do all 4 billion faithful believe in your particular version of your particular religion? Do you accept all the first hand experience of Hindu faithful on their NDEs, Guru saints and Prophets, and miracles?

https://www.indiatimes.com/lifestyl...at-prove-miracles-actually-happen-245505.html
https://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-faith-column/2007/01/lord-shiva-hinduism-milk
https://www.speakingtree.in/blog/hindu-list-of-miracles​

There are many more stories and accounts in non-english speaking forums and websites, but this demonstrates my point nonetheless. That humans are gullible and/or easily fooled is not groundbreaking. This is why Science, and such a tool as the Scientific Method is so invaluable in sorting the wheat from the chaff, so to speak. It is the best way we have so far to come about the truth of something.

LOL, Nice "sorting the wheat from the chaff" almost got the quote right, "Wheat from the tares" , but I digress.

It is true that SOME people are gullible and some are deceived into thinking falsehoods are truths and truths are falsehoods, that is why it is so very very important to carefully evaluate things in the most unbiased view as possible. Even the scientific method has it faults because bias creeps in, and pre-determined JUNK Science when the results are anticipated / expected by the group doing the funding of said research. But unless and until those scientists actually apply the scientific method to find if their theory is correct or not, they do NOT get ANY results, it is only AFTER moving forward and putting effort towards their end goals that they figure out if their theory holds water or not. They move forward WITHOUT KNOWING and that is Faith, faith is things that are unseen but there is a hope.

 

[Kylie]

You misread the demo...totally. You demonstrate that you almost never post any discussion of topics and issues.

Not with you. You've demonstrated time and time again that you do not understand the issue enough to have a meaningful discussion about it, and you've also shown that you have no desire to actually learn about the issue to be able to have a meaningful discussion.

And Iv'e got better things to do than waste my time writing an explanation for you that you don't want and will ignore.