The issues with Sola Scriptura

[Thursday]

This whole protestism teaches polar opposite truths is such a lame classification. People in your church need to be told what to do by some higher authority and would rather sit back and let someone tell them who to be than ask God what He wants them to be.

You talk with such pride like your organization is all that and bag of chips. The only 'true' church. What pride for anyone to say or think that. But heh, your Pope told ya so, right?

Keep lying to yourself.

You probably can't even tell me what the Bible says about those 7 things you say Protestantism disagree's on. Yeah, your church has the truth. lol. Go check with your denomination's website and get back to me.

You are the one with pride. I listen to those sent by Jesus. I don't lean on my own understanding.

Jesus started a Church and told us to listen to it. Is it prideful to obey what he told us?

 

[ToBeLoved]

You are merely giving your opinion. The Catholic Church believes and teaches that the bible is the word of God. To claim that the Catholic Church proclaims things that are unscriptural merely because you have a different interpretation means nothing. Why should your interpretation supersede that of a 2000 year old is quite a stretch.

We have the writings of the early Christians to help us understand what the apostles taught and how they interpreted the gospel. They agree with the Church and disagree with you.

You have no teaching authority. Like all protestants, you are leaning on your own understanding.

Yeah, you have all these books in Catholic possession that shows what the apostles taught and how they interpreted the gospel? What are all these documents called and why would the Catholic church hold them hostage from the rest of the world if they are Truth?

Please include your sources for this HUGE statement.

 

[ToBeLoved]

You are the one with pride. I listen to those sent by Jesus. I don't lean on my own understanding.

Jesus started a Church and told us to listen to it. Is it prideful to obey what he told us?

Can you quote the words of Jesus that you are talking about?

Because even the Apostles weren't in agreement on everything. See Acts and other epistles.

You have this candy coated viewpoint. So let's see your sources and you can prove me wrong.

The Catholic church can't even control the priests under it's own watch. Pedofiles moving from congregation to congregation. All teaching the Truth by day and evil by night. Jesus 'true' church. No one but it's congregants believe that.

 

[Thursday]

Yeah, you have all these books in Catholic possession that shows what the apostles taught and how they interpreted the gospel? What are all these documents called and why would the Catholic church hold them hostage from the rest of the world if they are Truth?

Please include your sources for this HUGE statement.

They are freely available for anyone to read. They are the writings of the early Fathers of the Church, starting with the letter of Clement to the Corinthains in about 90 AD.

Here's a comprehensive site that has them all:

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/

Some interesting quotes:

ST. IGNATIUS OF ANTIOCH
St. Ignatius became the third bishop of Antioch, succeeding St. Evodius, who was the immediate successor of St. Peter. He heard St. John preach when he was a boy and knew St. Polycarp, Bishop of Smyrna. Seven of his letters written to various Christian communities have been preserved. Eventually, he received the martyr's crown as he was thrown to wild beasts in the arena.

"Consider how contrary to the mind of God are the heterodox in regard to the grace of God which has come to us. They have no regard for charity, none for the widow, the orphan, the oppressed, none for the man in prison, the hungry or the thirsty. They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they do not admit that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, the flesh which suffered for our sins and which the Father, in His graciousness, raised from the dead."

"Letter to the Smyrnaeans", paragraph 6. circa 107 A.D.

ST. JUSTIN MARTYR
St. Justin Martyr was born a pagan but converted to Christianity after studying philosophy. He was a prolific writer and many Church scholars consider him the greatest apologist or defender of the faith from the 2nd century. He was beheaded with six of his companions some time between 163 and 167 A.D.

"This food we call the Eucharist, of which no one is allowed to partake except one who believes that the things we teach are true, and has received the washing for forgiveness of sins and for rebirth, and who lives as Christ handed down to us. For we do not receive these things as common bread or common drink; but as Jesus Christ our Savior being incarnate by God's Word took flesh and blood for our salvation, so also we have been taught that the food consecrated by the Word of prayer which comes from him, from which our flesh and blood are nourished by transformation, is the flesh and blood of that incarnate Jesus."

"First Apology", Ch. 66, inter A.D. 148-155.

Pope Clement I

"Through countryside and city [the apostles] preached, and they appointed their earliest converts, testing them by the Spirit, to be the bishops and deacons of future believers. Nor was this a novelty, for bishops and deacons had been written about a long time earlier. . . . Our apostles knew through our Lord Jesus Christ that there would be strife for the office of bishop. For this reason, therefore, having received perfect foreknowledge, they appointed those who have already been mentioned and afterwards added the further provision that, if they should die, other approved men should succeed to their ministry" (Letter to the Corinthians 42:4–5, 44:1–3 [A.D. 90]).

 

[ToBeLoved]

They are freely available for anyone to read. They are the writings of the early Fathers of the Church, starting with the letter of Clement to the Corinthains in about 90 AD.

Here's a comprehensive site that has them all:

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/

Some interesting quotes:

ST. IGNATIUS OF ANTIOCH
St. Ignatius became the third bishop of Antioch, succeeding St. Evodius, who was the immediate successor of St. Peter. He heard St. John preach when he was a boy and knew St. Polycarp, Bishop of Smyrna. Seven of his letters written to various Christian communities have been preserved. Eventually, he received the martyr's crown as he was thrown to wild beasts in the arena.

"Consider how contrary to the mind of God are the heterodox in regard to the grace of God which has come to us. They have no regard for charity, none for the widow, the orphan, the oppressed, none for the man in prison, the hungry or the thirsty. They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they do not admit that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, the flesh which suffered for our sins and which the Father, in His graciousness, raised from the dead."

"Letter to the Smyrnaeans", paragraph 6. circa 107 A.D.

ST. JUSTIN MARTYR
St. Justin Martyr was born a pagan but converted to Christianity after studying philosophy. He was a prolific writer and many Church scholars consider him the greatest apologist or defender of the faith from the 2nd century. He was beheaded with six of his companions some time between 163 and 167 A.D.

"This food we call the Eucharist, of which no one is allowed to partake except one who believes that the things we teach are true, and has received the washing for forgiveness of sins and for rebirth, and who lives as Christ handed down to us. For we do not receive these things as common bread or common drink; but as Jesus Christ our Savior being incarnate by God's Word took flesh and blood for our salvation, so also we have been taught that the food consecrated by the Word of prayer which comes from him, from which our flesh and blood are nourished by transformation, is the flesh and blood of that incarnate Jesus."

"First Apology", Ch. 66, inter A.D. 148-155.

Pope Clement I

"Through countryside and city [the apostles] preached, and they appointed their earliest converts, testing them by the Spirit, to be the bishops and deacons of future believers. Nor was this a novelty, for bishops and deacons had been written about a long time earlier. . . . Our apostles knew through our Lord Jesus Christ that there would be strife for the office of bishop. For this reason, therefore, having received perfect foreknowledge, they appointed those who have already been mentioned and afterwards added the further provision that, if they should die, other approved men should succeed to their ministry" (Letter to the Corinthians 42:4–5, 44:1–3 [A.D. 90]).

You said you had the apostles writings. But these are interesting non-the-less and thanks for the link.

 

[Thursday]

Can you quote the words of Jesus that you are talking about?

Because even the Apostles weren't in agreement on everything. See Acts and other epistles.

You have this candy coated viewpoint. So let's see your sources and you can prove me wrong.

The Catholic church can't even control the priests under it's own watch. Pedofiles moving from congregation to congregation. All teaching the Truth by day and evil by night. Jesus 'true' church. No one but it's congregants believe that.

All Catholics are sinners and there are evil men among us. Even Judas was an apostle. Of the nearly 1 million priests and sisters in the world, a tiny percentage are corrupt. That's human nature.

From Jesus:

Luke 10:16
"Whoever listens to you listens to me; whoever rejects you rejects me; but whoever rejects me rejects him who sent me."

Matt 18
17If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
18“Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.

From the NT letters:

1 John 4
6We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood.

1 Tim 3:15
if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

 

[Thursday]

You said you had the apostles writings. But these are interesting non-the-less and thanks for the link.

Here's what I said:

We have the writings of the early Christians to help us understand what the apostles taught and how they interpreted the gospel. They agree with the Church and disagree with you.

So, given that the early Christians who learned from the apostles agree with the Catholic Church and disagree with you, what makes you confident that your interpretation is correct?

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Yeah, you have all these books in Catholic possession that shows what the apostles taught and how they interpreted the gospel? What are all these documents called and why would the Catholic church hold them hostage from the rest of the world if they are Truth?

Please include your sources for this HUGE statement.

Your right ... they used to or perhaps still do .. accuse Protestants of never reading the writings that are so pertainant to the faith... but when pressed to reveal which writings they were talking about there was not one that they came up with.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Here's what I said:

We have the writings of the early Christians to help us understand what the apostles taught and how they interpreted the gospel. They agree with the Church and disagree with you.

So, given that the early Christians who learned from the apostles agree with the Catholic Church and disagree with you, what makes you confident that your interpretation is correct?

I think you are way wrong. Why did the Catholic Church conduct all their masses in Latin which no one could understand for so long? Copying the Apostles and the early church? I think not.

Also, many of the Apostles were married and Catholic priests are not. I could go on and on. Paul outlined clearly what qualifications a bishop should have and it's not political like the Catholic church, nor did the early church have their own country, international bank that they profit from, nor was the early church responsible for burning countless number of other Christians who disagreed with them at the stake.

I don't really want to get in this conversation, but I think you see where this could easily go. The Catholic church is MUCH to political and financially rich to be anything like the early church. Corruption happens, money is not good to mix with spirituality or so says Jesus Christ.

I will begin though to wain from this conversation because I do not want to go there. History speaks for itself though.

 

[ToBeLoved]

All Catholics are sinners and there are evil men among us. Even Judas was an apostle. Of the nearly 1 million priests and sisters in the world, a tiny percentage are corrupt. That's human nature.

From Jesus:

Luke 10:16
"Whoever listens to you listens to me; whoever rejects you rejects me; but whoever rejects me rejects him who sent me."

Matt 18
17If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
18“Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.

From the NT letters:

1 John 4
6We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood.

1 Tim 3:15
if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

What is specific to the Catholic church? Nothing in these verses indicate anything specific. These could be talking about any denomination or Christian church. The Catholic church even has a non-standard Catholic Bible. God says not to add anything to His Book.

Believe what you like, but saying your church is the only true church is as prideful as it gets.

 

[Truth Lover]

That authority falls to the Church that was started by Jesus. The Bible came from that Church in the late 4th century. That Church being the only Church to be able to trace itself back to the first Pope, St Peter. That Church, first being called the Catholic Church in the year 107AD by St Ignatius of Antioch. That Church being the Catholic Church, which at the Council of Nicaea in the year 325 AD developed the Nicene Creed and started the process developing a Church canon, the Bible and without this Church, nobody would have the Bible today.

The 3 authorities: https://www.crossroadsinitiative.co...word-of-god-part-3-tradition-and-magisterium/
Early Church Fathers on Holy Tradition: http://www.staycatholic.com/ecf_tradition.htm
Council of Nicaea: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11044a.htm
Council of Carthage: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Councils_of_Carthage#Synod_of_397
St Ignatius: http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0109.htm

Also, it is the Church that officially compiled the Bible in the Council of Hippo in 393 and the third council of Carthage in 397. They decided which books belonged in the Bible and which ones were not canonical. Christians trust these bishops' decisions when they read the Bible.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Any church that has mass corruption I'm never going to call Jesus true church. Never.

 

[Albion]

Which people? Calvinists, Mormons, Baptists, Pentecostals, Adventists, or Anglicans?

That was before there were any denominations--Baptists, Roman Catholics, Adventists, any of them.

 

[Thursday]

What is specific to the Catholic church? Nothing in these verses indicate anything specific. These could be talking about any denomination or Christian church. The Catholic church even has a non-standard Catholic Bible. God says not to add anything to His Book.

Believe what you like, but saying your church is the only true church is as prideful as it gets.

Protestants don't believe that the Eucharist is the body and blood of Jesus. Catholics and the early Christians do.(and so so Orthodox Christians)

Protestants don't acknowledge the need for apostolic succession.. Catholics and the early Christians do.

Protestants don't acknowledge the authority of the Church and the Bishops. Catholics and early Christians do.

Catholics chose the books of the New Testament. Protestants accept the books chosen by Catholics for the New Testament, but they removed several books from the Old Testament because they were too Catholic.

 

[Thursday]

That was before there were any denominations--Baptists, Roman Catholics, Adventists, any of them.

Before the Reformers split the Church and started leaning on their own understanding. The Reformers teach things that weren't taught in the early Church.

 

[Albion]

Before the Reformers split the Church and started leaning on their own understanding. The Reformers teach things that weren't taught in the early Church.

On the other hand, the Reformers also taught certain things that WERE taught and believed in the Early Church but then discarded or changed in later years by the Roman Catholic Church. When the Reformers called for a return to the Apostolic standards, that surely was right of them to do.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Protestants don't believe that the Eucharist is the body and blood of Jesus. Catholics and the early Christians do.(and so so Orthodox Christians)

Protestants don't acknowledge the need for apostolic succession.. Catholics and the early Christians do.

Protestants don't acknowledge the authority of the Church and the Bishops. Catholics and early Christians do.

Catholics chose the books of the New Testament. Protestants accept the books chosen by Catholics for the New Testament, but they removed several books from the Old Testament because they were too Catholic.

Your full of beans.

 

[Thursday]

Your full of beans.

I once believed as you do now. I was wrong.

 

[DJKWord]

Logically, since not everybody is right in their interpretation of the Bible, there needs to be an authority higher or equal to the Bible to claim what is the correct interpretation.

Now this is convenient, isn't it? Some organization declares that only those with a certain "authority" can decide what the Bible really says. They then award it to themselves and withhold it from us. Doesn't that strike you as somewhat dubious?

Also, people always talk about "interpreting" the Bible. Which parts? It's as if it was all written in an alien language every person reads a different way.

Fortunately it wasn't. And thanks to people like William Tyndale (who was burned at the stake by that same organization), we have it in English.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I once believed as you do now. I was wrong.

Well you really haven't provided any proof of why you think this is so. So at this point should I just take your word for it, or do you have some proof of this?