The issues with Sola Scriptura

[Rick Otto]

In that equation a conversation is prayer but unlike talking with anyone else but God.

"With" and "God", be it petition or praise & inquiry.
Sometimes He initiates.
Anybody else would spook me right out, and it's obvious when I'm talking to myself.
I hear God chuckling @ me, sometimes.

 

[Wolf_Says]

I'm afraid not. He took pains to make it clear. I was a new convert, going on about Jesus all the time, and I think he felt he needed to set me straight.

He obviously did not know his faith very well then. Catholics worship God and God alone. We Honor those such as Mary who is the mother of Jesus and the saints because they were normal human beings who were able to live according to God and found favor with God.

Well, Catholics keep teaching me the following: we're supposed to "venerate" Mary; we're supposed to pray to the saints; and when we do worship Jesus, it's in the form of bread.

Venerate =/= worship. Please understand that. Venerate = Honor. We honor Mary and the saints. We worship Jesus throughout the entire mass. Yes the Eucharist is the most important part of the mass, but the entire mass is worship to God.

To bring this back around to SS, I'm listening to Foxe's Book of Martyrs at my job. As time went on after Christ, religious officials added one thing, then another, then another. I listed these in an earlier post, but they included Transubstantiation, praying to Mary and the saints, praying to statues of Mary and the saints, indulgences, purgatory. A number of Christians naturally wondered where these came from, since the New Testament makes no mention of them. They were also alarmed at the call to worship images and the aforementioned bread, and refused to do it. And so untold numbers of them were condemned, persecuted, tortured and burned alive as "heretics."

Nobody prays to statues. We ask Mary and the saints to pray for us, purgatory is mentioned in the Bible though just not in the name given, just like the trinity is mentioned in the Bible but the word Trinity is nowhere to be found.

No Catholic worships images, and the bread is the Body of Christ, not a symbol of it, it is literally the Body of Christ.

Also, please go find another book. Foxes Book of Martyrs is a rabidly anti-Catholic book and rather sketchy in its historical accuracy. Especially its section on early christian history.

 

[Albion]

What this shows is that a substitute word is often used for worship so that what is being done will not seem to be worship. Or, as is sometimes the case, the church will say that X is one kind of worship while Y is a different kind of worship.

What really matters is not this ^ but whether or not that which is being done constitutes worship.

 

[Thursday]

I'm afraid not. He took pains to make it clear. I was a new convert, going on about Jesus all the time, and I think he felt he needed to set me straight.



Well, Catholics keep teaching me the following: we're supposed to "venerate" Mary; we're supposed to pray to the saints; and when we do worship Jesus, it's in the form of bread.

To bring this back around to SS, I'm listening to Foxe's Book of Martyrs at my job. As time went on after Christ, religious officials added one thing, then another, then another. I listed these in an earlier post, but they included Transubstantiation, praying to Mary and the saints, praying to statues of Mary and the saints, indulgences, purgatory. A number of Christians naturally wondered where these came from, since the New Testament makes no mention of them. They were also alarmed at the call to worship images and the aforementioned bread, and refused to do it. And so untold numbers of them were condemned, persecuted, tortured and burned alive as "heretics."

If the church had remained within the Scriptures as Christ did, and not repeated the Pharisees' mistake of adding their own traditions which (as Christ pointed out) inevitably clash with the Bible, none of those atrocities ever would have happened.

Foxe's book of Martyrs is propaganda, not history. Even protestant theologians admit as much.

From Wiki:

The 1911Encyclopædia Britannica accused Foxe of "wilful falsification of evidence"; two years later in the Catholic Encyclopedia, Francis Fortescue Urquhart wrote of the value of the documentary content and eyewitness reports, but claimed that Foxe "sometimes dishonestly mutilates his documents and is quite untrustworthy in his treatment of evidence"

Transubstantiation, purgatory and the prayers of the saints in heaven have always been part of Christianity and are biblical.

 

[Thursday]

Why should this include dead people? That just sounds creepy and morbid.



In the Bible, God alone is prayed to/venerated/worshiped. In Catholicism, it seems to be everyone else.

Whoever believes and lives in Christ will never die. Those with Jesus are NOT dead.

You are lying about Catholics and the body of Christ. Why?

 

[W2L]

I love Jesus. When I think of sola scripture, I think Psalm 23. My joy overflows this morning.

Psalm 23
A psalm of David.
1
The Lord is my shepherd, I lack nothing.
2
He makes me lie down in green pastures,
he leads me beside quiet waters,
3
he refreshes my soul.
He guides me along the right paths
for his name’s sake.
4
Even though I walk
through the darkest valley,[a]
I will fear no evil,
for you are with me;
your rod and your staff,
they comfort me.
5
You prepare a table before me
in the presence of my enemies.
You anoint my head with oil;
my cup overflows.
6
Surely your goodness and love will follow me
all the days of my life,
and I will dwell in the house of the Lord
forever.

 

[DJKWord]

purgatory is mentioned in the Bible though just not in the name given, just like the trinity is mentioned in the Bible but the word Trinity is nowhere to be found.

It just occurred to me, the same can be said for SS. While not named in the Bible, it is shown in Christ's consistent use of the Scriptures, directing people to them, reproving the Sadducees for not understanding them, etc. He rejected the Pharisaical traditions, and I'm pretty sure he ignored the Apocrypha in all his quotes.

It's always bothered me that the Council of Trent flat-out ignored this and declared tradition equally authoritative with the Bible. I gather it was because they were anxious to stifle the Reformation and Martin "Bible-only" Luther, and remind all of Christendom who was boss.

 

[DJKWord]

Please go find another book. Foxes Book of Martyrs is a rabidly anti-Catholic book and rather sketchy in its historical accuracy. Especially its section on early christian history.

Foxe's book of Martyrs is propaganda, not history. Even protestant theologians admit as much.

So the Waldensian and Huguenot persecutions never happened? The St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre never happened? And most of all, the Inquisition never happened???

It's another thing that bothers me, that people would defend a church that's guilty of such horrors and even regard it as infallible.

Neither am I defending "Protestantism." Feel free to list their own atrocities.

 

[DJKWord]

I love Jesus. When I think of sola scripture, I think Psalm 23. My joy overflows this morning.

Amen, amen, and amen! Thank you for sharing this beautiful psalm.

 

[W2L]

Amen, amen, and amen! Thank you for sharing this beautiful psalm.

Yer most welcome.

 

[Thursday]

So the Waldensian and Huguenot persecutions never happened? The St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre never happened? And most of all, the Inquisition never happened???

It's another thing that bothers me, that people would defend a church that's guilty of such horrors and even regard it as infallible.

Neither am I defending "Protestantism." Feel free to list their own atrocities.

The Catholic Church teaches truth. It is protected from teaching error by the promise of Christ.

However, Catholics are sinners like everyone else.

 

[Albion]

The Catholic Church teaches truth. It is protected from teaching error by the promise of Christ..

Christ didn't promise that to ANY denomination. He didn't even promise it to the whole church!

 

[Thursday]

Christ didn't promise that to ANY denomination. He didn't even promise it to the whole church!

He only started one Church. He chose leaders for his Church. He made promises to the leaders of his Church.

His Church is led by the apostles and their successors(starting with Mathias), teaches with a unified authority, and forgives sins.

 

[Albion]

He only started one Church. He chose leaders for his Church. He made promises to the leaders of his Church.

His Church is led by the apostles and their successors(starting with Mathias), teaches with a unified authority, and forgives sins.

No Bible citation of course, just wishful thinking.

 

[ToBeLoved]

He only started one Church. He chose leaders for his Church. He made promises to the leaders of his Church.

His Church is led by the apostles and their successors(starting with Mathias), teaches with a unified authority, and forgives sins.

Why did Paul then write letters to the Church at Phillipi (Phillipians), Ephesus (Ephesians), Galatia (Galatians), Corinth (1 Corinthians, 2 Corinthians), Thessolonica (Thesseloneans), ect.

That is only one church?

 

[ToBeLoved]

What this shows is that a substitute word is often used for worship so that what is being done will not seem to be worship. Or, as is sometimes the case, the church will say that X is one kind of worship while Y is a different kind of worship.

What really matters is not this ^ but whether or not that which is being done constitutes worship.

This is different than what God told Moses in Exodus when writing the 10 Commandments.

 

[Thursday]

Why did Paul then write letters to the Church at Phillipi (Phillipians), Ephesus (Ephesians), Galatia (Galatians), Corinth (1 Corinthians, 2 Corinthians), Thessolonica (Thesseloneans), ect.

That is only one church?

Those are locations, not different churches with different doctrines. Note in Acts 15 when the Christians at Antioch had a question about the requirements for gentile converts they sent Paul to the Church leaders to get the dispute resolved.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Those are locations, not different churches with different doctrines. Note in Acts 15 when the Christians at Antioch had a question about the requirements for gentile converts they sent Paul to the Church leaders to get the dispute resolved.

I hate to break it to you, but each Christian is THE CHURCH. Jesus says so. We are the Tabernacle, the Holy Spirit lives in each of us. That is the church.

So if you want to debate that smaller issues that do not effect salvation are different, then that will be interesting. You will then have to prove that the Holy Spirit living in each believer is not guiding in Truth. The Holy Spirit is God, so then that God is imperfect.

 

[Hank77]

To pray is to ask.
So in fact you DO pray 'to' others when you ask a prayer request 'to' (as in directed 'to' them in conversation).

Jesus Himself told us how and to whom we are to pray. Pray to the Father in the name of the Son. Matt 6:9-13
Not only should we pray this prayer, as it is a perfect pray, but it is the format for all prayer.

 

[Thursday]

I hate to break it to you, but each Christian is THE CHURCH. Jesus says so. We are the Tabernacle, the Holy Spirit lives in each of us. That is the church.

So if you want to debate that smaller issues that do not effect salvation are different, then that will be interesting. You will then have to prove that the Holy Spirit living in each believer is not guiding in Truth. The Holy Spirit is God, so then that God is imperfect.

When Jesus told those of us with a dispute to listen to the Church, was he telling us to listen to ourselves?

The truth does impact salvation. If you reject those sent by Jesus, are you rejecting him?