• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

The Inspiration of Scripture

What the Bible says, God says.


  • Total voters
    106

redleghunter

Thank You Jesus!
Site Supporter
Mar 18, 2014
38,117
34,056
Texas
✟199,236.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Ah infidels.org What a paragon of Biblical scholarship. Not.

But the mask comes off.
 
Reactions: Athanasius377
Upvote 0

FireDragon76

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 30, 2013
33,710
20,969
Orlando, Florida
✟1,541,446.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
United Ch. of Christ
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat

That's exactly what Muslims believe about the Quran, BTW. In fact Muslims even believe the Quran is essentially God's eternal speech act.
 
Upvote 0

Ttalkkugjil

Social Pastor
Mar 6, 2019
1,680
908
Suwon
✟42,072.00
Country
Korea, Republic Of
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Others
Jesus never tells women they must be silent and he told Mary Magdalene to go tell of his resurrection to the disciples. Therefore, he instructed a woman to preach, for all practical purposes.

Therefore he instructed a woman to evangelize. There is nowhere in the New Testament where a woman is rightly instructed to preach.
 
Upvote 0

bekkilyn

Contemplative Christian
Site Supporter
Apr 27, 2017
7,612
8,476
USA
✟700,228.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Others

Oh yes, I know. I remember someone on a radio program coming up with this whole ridiculous notion that the devil planted all of the dinosaur fossils into the ground in order to deceive us away from believing that every word of the bible was literally true and had no errors or inconsistencies anywhere in it. It was so silly that I don't know how any reasonable person would be attracted to Christianity by trying to force themselves to believe such things.
 
Upvote 0

FireDragon76

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 30, 2013
33,710
20,969
Orlando, Florida
✟1,541,446.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
United Ch. of Christ
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
Upvote 0

redleghunter

Thank You Jesus!
Site Supporter
Mar 18, 2014
38,117
34,056
Texas
✟199,236.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
"I now propose short, clear, and strong arguments prove the divine inspiration of the holy Scriptures.

"The Bible must be the invention either (1.) of good men or angels, (2.) of bad men or devils, or (3.) of God.


  • It could not be the invention of good men or angels; they neither would nor could make a book, and tell lies all the time they were writing it, saying, "Thus says the Lord," when it was their own invention.
  • It could not be the invention of bad men or devils; for they would not make a book which commands all duty, forbids all sin, and condemns their souls to hell to all eternity.
  • Therefore, I draw this conclusion, that the Bible must be given by divine inspiration.


-- (edited from the tract by John Wesley).
 
Upvote 0

bekkilyn

Contemplative Christian
Site Supporter
Apr 27, 2017
7,612
8,476
USA
✟700,228.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Others

It's part of the sanctification process of working out our salvation. We spend time studying scripture, but also in prayer, meditation, corporate worship, and other disciplines that allow us to listen for and hear God's voice speaking to us. Remember, he is a LIVING God and is still active in our lives today.
 
Upvote 0

redleghunter

Thank You Jesus!
Site Supporter
Mar 18, 2014
38,117
34,056
Texas
✟199,236.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
More from John Wesley:

"Concerning the Scriptures in general, it may be observed, the word of the living God, which directed the first patriarchs also, was, in the time of Moses, committed to writing. To this were added, in several succeeding generations, the inspired writings of the other prophets. Afterward, what the Son of God preached, and the Holy Ghost spake by the apostles, the apostles and evangelists wrote. - This is what we now style the Holy Scripture: this is that word of God which remaineth for ever: of which, though heaven and earth pass away, one jot or tittle shall not pass away. The Scripture therefore of the Old and New Testament, is a most solid and precious system of Divine truth. Every part thereof is worthy of God; and all together are one entire body, wherein is no defect, no excess. It is the fountain of heavenly wisdom, which they who are able to taste, prefer to all writings of men, however wise, or learned, or holy.

An exact knowledge of the truth was accompanied in the inspired writers with an exactly regular series of arguments, a precise expression of their meaning, and a genuine vigor of suitable affections. The chain of argument in each book is briefly exhibited in the table prefixed to it, which contains also the sum thereof, and may be of more use than prefixing the argument to each chapter; the division of the New Testament into chapters having been made in the dark ages, and very incorrectly; often separating things that are closely joined, and joining those that are entirely distinct from each other.

In the language of the sacred writings, we may observe the utmost depth, together with the utmost ease. All the elegancies of human composures sink into nothing before it: God speaks not as man, but as God. His thoughts are very deep: and thence his words are of inexhaustible virtue. And the language of his messengers also is exact in the highest degree: for the words which were given them accurately answered the impression made upon their minds: and hence Luther says, "Divinity is nothing but a grammar of the language of the Holy Ghost." To understand this thoroughly, we should observe the emphasis which lies on every word; the holy affections expressed thereby, and the tempers shown by every writer. But how little are these, the latter especially, regarded? Though they are wonderfully diffused through the whole New Testament, and are in truth a continued commendation of him who acts, or speaks, or writes."

-- from the "Preface" to Explanatory Notes on the New Testament.
 
Upvote 0

RexColin

Active Member
Apr 11, 2019
47
21
52
Monroe, LA.
✟24,699.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
In Relationship
Inspired does not mean verbatim. Yes the Bible is the Word of God, Jesus is the Word of God made flesh, but unless it says and God said in the original text and not the Hebrew to Greek to Latin to English text, it is mostly "and man thinks God said" such and such. No doubt the bible is God's word preserved, but that does not mean for example the KJV, NIV, NASB, etc is verbatim. Given all that, the bible is the most powerful tool on Earth if you put the effort and time in to studying it narratively and linguistically in context rather than snip and clip connect the dots. So is the bible the inspired word of God, yes. But chances are there is mistranslations and non-verbatim comments in it as well.
 
Upvote 0

FireDragon76

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 30, 2013
33,710
20,969
Orlando, Florida
✟1,541,446.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
United Ch. of Christ
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat

I tried for a while. And I ended up more like a crazy Scientologist than anything I recognize today as a disciple of Jesus. I was fearful and irrational. Sometimes I think Christians desperately need other perspectives other than a religious echo chamber, as a result.
 
Reactions: bekkilyn
Upvote 0

redleghunter

Thank You Jesus!
Site Supporter
Mar 18, 2014
38,117
34,056
Texas
✟199,236.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
More from Wesley:

"In matters of religion I regard no writings but the inspired. Tauler, Behmen, and a whole army of Mystic authors, are with me nothing to St. Paul. In every point I appeal "to the law and the testimony," and value no authority but this.

"At a time when I was in great danger of not valuing this authority enough, you made that important observation: "I see where your mistake lies. You would have a philosophical religion; but there can be no such thing. Religion is the most plain, simple thing in the world. It is only, 'We love him, because he first loved us.' So far as you add philosophy to religion, just so far you spoil it." This remark I have never forgotten since; and I trust in God I never shall."

--From An Extract of a Letter to the Reverend Mr. Law Occasioned by Some of his Late Writings .
 
Upvote 0

redleghunter

Thank You Jesus!
Site Supporter
Mar 18, 2014
38,117
34,056
Texas
✟199,236.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
And this from Wesley:

"My ground is the Bible. Yea, I am a Bible-bigot. I follow it in all things, both great and small."

--From the Journal: "June 5, 1766"


"But the Christian rule of right and wrong is the word of God, the writings of the Old and New Testament; all that the Prophets and "holy men of old" wrote "as they were moved by the Holy Ghost;" all that Scripture which was given by inspiration of God, and which is indeed profitable for doctrine, or teaching the whole will of God; for reproof of what is contrary thereto; for correction of error; and for instruction, or training us up, in righteousness. (2 Timothy 3:16.)

"This is a lantern unto a Christian's feet, and a light in all his paths. This alone he receives as his rule of right or wrong, of whatever is really good or evil. He esteems nothing good, but what is here enjoined, either directly or by plain consequence, he accounts nothing evil but what is here forbidden, either in terms, or by undeniable inference. Whatever the Scripture neither forbids nor conjoins, either directly or by plain consequence, he believes to be of an indifferent nature; to be in itself neither good nor evil; this being the whole and sole outward rule whereby his conscience is to be directed in all things."

--From the Sermons: "The Witness of Our Own Spirit."
 
Upvote 0

redleghunter

Thank You Jesus!
Site Supporter
Mar 18, 2014
38,117
34,056
Texas
✟199,236.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I’m curious what “other disciplines” means.
 
Upvote 0

redleghunter

Thank You Jesus!
Site Supporter
Mar 18, 2014
38,117
34,056
Texas
✟199,236.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
You are now dealing in hyperbole. This will go nowhere.
 
Upvote 0

RexColin

Active Member
Apr 11, 2019
47
21
52
Monroe, LA.
✟24,699.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
In Relationship
consider Jesus' words over anything that contradicts Him though.
Umm who is Jesus contradicting? He can't contradict God since he is God. And what Law did he change? He himself said he had not come to abolish the law and that anyone who changes the Law will be the least in the Kingdom, Mathew 5.
 
Upvote 0

FireDragon76

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 30, 2013
33,710
20,969
Orlando, Florida
✟1,541,446.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
United Ch. of Christ
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat

You do realize Wesley lived at a time when he could be defrocked and or jailed for writing anything to the contrary? That religion itself was politicized? It seems to me we must consider his statements in light of that. There was alot of social pressure in his time to demonize Catholics and to be overtly evangelical, for instance, which he often did so, and yet at the same time he read from Catholic authors. So it seems to me we should not decontextualize what he is saying here.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

bekkilyn

Contemplative Christian
Site Supporter
Apr 27, 2017
7,612
8,476
USA
✟700,228.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Others
Ah infidels.org What a paragon of Biblical scholarship. Not.

But the mask comes off.

The mask of what? Google? You could do the same just like I did and read the same list of things from a site that has an address you like better. It's not like they're going to be any different in the next place you see them, or when you actually look them up in scripture.

Basically, all you really need to do is go to the first two chapters of Genesis and see that the order of creation is different in the two different creation accounts.

For me, that's fine because the message that it was God who created everything still stands even if the writer (or writers) of Genesis got things a bit confused in the details. Since the foundation of my faith is in the person of Jesus Christ rather than in an inerrant book, my faith is still intact when contradictions in the book are pointed out.
 
Upvote 0

redleghunter

Thank You Jesus!
Site Supporter
Mar 18, 2014
38,117
34,056
Texas
✟199,236.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
You do realize Wesley lived at a time when he could be defrocked and or jailed for writing anything to the contrary?
So he was being deceptive to his own movement to save his own skin?

It seems to me we must consider his statements in light of that.
Or he really believed such. And this is the correct answer as he did not sputter our rote Theology but can see the Love of Christ in his statements.
 
Upvote 0